A question about marriage...

[Lostmixup]

By only fun for those involved, I meant it usually is literally only enjoyable for them. The other people seeing it generally just get annoyed by it. Most of the time marriages are abused heavily to either metagame, or just give generally annoying reasoning to do something like kill someone (FOR LOVE I HATH KILLED THEE).

I personally have only mostly seen the negative aspects of marriage in CM. There's rarely ever a decent "married couple" on server. My though process is, why let a system continue that only a few people actually use properly, while the rest abuse it all to hell?

There's plenty of good reasons to let it stay, more RP and all that, but I find that the negatives outweigh the positives in this respect. CM isn't like other servers, we can't just have people using love as an excuse to do stupid shit all the time.

I have no problems with anyone being friends out of server and using those relationships to do RP in game. Marriage is just a generally abused way of doing lame RP that is annoying for everyone who isn't involved.

*Also, quick side note. Families are indeed not allowed to serve together because of the whole bloodline thing in the US military. If they are serving at the same time, they won't both be in the field at the same time. I think this also goes for married couples, they generally do not serve together. We're not a super heavy realism server, but I do think this is a valid point.

[Wickedtemp]

By only fun for those involved, I meant it usually is literally only enjoyable for them. The other people seeing it generally just get annoyed by it. Most of the time marriages are abused heavily to either metagame, or just give generally annoying reasoning to do something like kill someone (FOR LOVE I HATH KILLED THEE).

I personally have only mostly seen the negative aspects of marriage in CM. There's rarely ever a decent "married couple" on server. My though process is, why let a system continue that only a few people actually use properly, while the rest abuse it all to hell?

There's plenty of good reasons to let it stay, more RP and all that, but I find that the negatives outweigh the positives in this respect. CM isn't like other servers, we can't just have people using love as an excuse to do stupid shit all the time.

I have no problems with anyone being friends out of server and using those relationships to do RP in game. Marriage is just a generally abused way of doing lame RP that is annoying for everyone who isn't involved.

Most of the playerbase would probably agree that ANY RP is lame and dumb.

Also I've only seen the positive aspects, apparently there was this huge fuck-up in medbay that gets mentioned but is never explained in detail so I'm just kinda ignoring it.

[Lostmixup]

Most of the playerbase would probably agree that ANY RP is lame and dumb.

Also I've only seen the positive aspects, apparently there was this huge fuck-up in medbay that gets mentioned but is never explained in detail so I'm just kinda ignoring it.

Most RP is lame and dumb because the players tend to not act realistically. IG marriages are also generally unrealistic as well. They tend to be very cringe worthy.

[Wickedtemp]

Most RP is lame and dumb because the players tend to not act realistically. IG marriages are also generally unrealistic as well. They tend to be very cringe worthy.

This is a server about space soldiers fighting aliens. We can afford to miss out on some of the more realistic things.

[Lostmixup]

This is a server about space soldiers fighting aliens. We can afford to miss out on some of the more realistic things.

My point is that marriage is the least properly done form of RP on server. It's the least realistic, and the least enjoyable for anyone not involved. The game itself is unrealistic just like the Witcher 3 or fallout is unrealistic, but in that game the characters at least act like real people. SS13 can't be 100% real to life, but the characters can at least act somewhat realistically.

[Wickedtemp]

My point is that marriage is the least properly done form of RP on server. It's the least realistic, and the least enjoyable for anyone not involved. The game itself is unrealistic just like the Witcher 3 or fallout is unrealistic, but in that game the characters at least act like real people. SS13 can't be 100% real to life, but the characters can at least act somewhat realistically.

I would argue that the worst RP stems from positions of authority. That may be partially due to the fact that I tend to play as MP and as MP I deal with Command a bit more than I would as a standard Marine.

Mostly, it's Bridge Officers and Commanders that do the whole "Ha! Marines are but merely a pawn! Their deaths mean nothing! Watch as I openly mock them dying terribly!"

That's more harmful than two people that suck at RPing a relationship. But apparently that's completely fine and isn't a cause for concern, despite it disrupting more rounds due to mutiny.

[WyattH]

I think the difference between "meta-friending" and RP needs to be defined more if we're going to have this discussion about marriage.

This is a shape that is supposed to have been a part of many operations with a dedicated crew and marines to go along with it, I would assume RP-wise it's fine to start rounds with a backhistory with other characters. If not, why even call this server "medium-RP" and just admit that really in the end we're a "low-RP" server because the story is so much on rails at that point and with rounds so short you cant even develop a depth of character in em. Not to mention the consistent lack of RP from many xenos ~_~

[Wickedtemp]

I'd call this a low-RP server and Bay a medium RP server. The only server I would call a high RP would be Vorestation. That's literally all they do, aside from that Nazi invasion round they had a couple of times.

Now, do in-game marriages disrupt anything? Not really.

Do they cause any direct harm? No.

Do people get annoyed by them? A few do. But tough shit, it annoys me when people use shitty grammar but I still deal with that.

Do they encourage friendship? Yes. But so does really any RP in general, it'll happen regardless.

Conclusion: The people it directly involves tend to enjoy it. I've enjoyed it. Why not?

[Voldirs]

And you know what happens during RP? Good times are had, memories are shared, sometimes laughs all around. To scrap that in the next round is just... eh. Why even RP if there's no character development? If everything's stagnant, why? You'd just be having the same damn conversations every time!

I used to play like that 2 years ago on one of SS13 servers. I found it really interesting but ... one day I found that quite stupid. Why I transfer all my relations in the next round when I was eaten by singulo alive in the round before. Yeah, cloning you say, but I dont like idea of cloning-for-everyone, because it kills the human's nature to stay away from death. It differs meaning of death from "Rest in Peace, your deeds will not be forgotten" to "Huh, just little trouble, get the body to lab".

Yeah, brand new day, you may say, but involving the chatter and relations from previous rounds.

I have seen one project within SS13, which involved dossiers, strict job restrictions for a character and permadeath. It was not succesful project at all, as you may guess.

How to do? You still can develop your character while NOT taking any actual information from previous rounds. Slight changes, like acquiring some habits, some speak-patterns and something else.

Also, I cant understand how you separate all that Low-RP, Medium-RP, High-RP ... Nightmare-RP

[Sargeantmuffinman]

I have no words.

And I will remain neutral.

[Toroic]

I think the difference between "meta-friending" and RP needs to be defined more if we're going to have this discussion about marriage.

This is a shape that is supposed to have been a part of many operations with a dedicated crew and marines to go along with it, I would assume RP-wise it's fine to start rounds with a backhistory with other characters. If not, why even call this server "medium-RP" and just admit that really in the end we're a "low-RP" server because the story is so much on rails at that point and with rounds so short you cant even develop a depth of character in em. Not to mention the consistent lack of RP from many xenos ~_~

Can you elaborate on what sort of RP you're looking for from xenos?

[Jen_Llama]

Humans forming relationships with other humans is going to happen if it isn't an RP server. The idea of 'people getting 2dspessmanmarried makes me uncomfortable, therefor ban it' just seems naive and more than a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[KeyWii]

Neutral leaning towards no.

I dunno, really. Just seems like something that shouldn't have a place in a military themed server.

[Edgelord]

I'm not against the idea of relationships (it's your character do what you want so long as it's consensual) but marriage in a platoon? That seems kind of unlikely. I'm gonna say -1

[UnknownMurder]

...OOC overrides IC and has always...

We have server rules, but guess what, son? We got people who doesn't follow the damn rules. This is why Marriage was prohibited in the military, to avoid complications (I think). You can't just say everyone need to be a good boy/girl in order get the "No-Marriage" passed. It's similar to majority ruling minority.

[Dragon2323]

Let's talk about it this way. The United States Colonial Marine Corps is based as a infantry unit outside of the United States Space Command, which is based around the United States Air Force, and it's current rendition, the United States Air Force Space Command. Marines - mindfully space marines - are linked to the Air Force, which can change a few things depending upon military policy.

It's also a given that a policy exists known as "JOIN SPOUSE" in the Air Force, which would likely follow through to the USCM.

"Each of the services have an assignment program called "JOIN SPOUSE." Basically, under this program, the military will try as hard as they can to station military spouses at the same base or within 100 miles of each other.

Note there is no guarantee -- the military just agrees to try. The services will not create a new slot for JOIN SPOUSE. There has to be an existing slot in the rank/job that the member(s) can be assigned against."

The "JOIN SPOUSE" program works heavily well in the same branch, meaning that Colonial Marines in married couples could essentially file a "JOIN SPOUSE" charge, which would technically void fraternization charges and allow a pair of married Marines to serve alongside one another.

However, for the major thing, the program can fail - and if staff feel it necessary, this could be moderated by a whitelist. But, there's still covering in-game couples.

There are shitters, yes, like a handful of in-game couples, whom utilize their IC relationship as if it's a free pass to attack others and grief. This isn't likely the case if staff are going to care for competency about this issue.

If you were to utilize an IC relationship as an excuse for attacking another player whom doesn't retaliate, and you beat them into the near critical stages, etcetera, this should be met with a griefing ban.

However, this means you can also add Fraternization as a Marine Law charge, given that making rules about in-character relationships is relatively fucktarded - however half of the Military Police you see on are trying to get into other marines' pants, anyhow, so it may not be fully effective.

I'm surprised there's minimal research going into these arguements.

[ SOURCE 1 ] and [ SOURCE 2 ]

[Wickedtemp]

Let's talk about it this way. The United States Colonial Marine Corps is based as a infantry unit outside of the United States Space Command, which is based around the United States Air Force, and it's current rendition, the United States Air Force Space Command. Marines - mindfully space marines - are linked to the Air Force, which can change a few things depending upon military policy.

It's also a given that a policy exists known as "JOIN SPOUSE" in the Air Force, which would likely follow through to the USCM.
The "JOIN SPOUSE" program works heavily well in the same branch, meaning that Colonial Marines in married couples could essentially file a "JOIN SPOUSE" charge, which would technically void fraternization charges and allow a pair of married Marines to serve alongside one another.

However, for the major thing, the program can fail - and if staff feel it necessary, this could be moderated by a whitelist. But, there's still covering in-game couples.

There are shitters, yes, like a handful of in-game couples, whom utilize their IC relationship as if it's a free pass to attack others and grief. This isn't likely the case if staff are going to care for competency about this issue.

If you were to utilize an IC relationship as an excuse for attacking another player whom doesn't retaliate, and you beat them into the near critical stages, etcetera, this should be met with a griefing ban.

However, this means you can also add Fraternization as a Marine Law charge, given that making rules about in-character relationships is relatively fucktarded - however half of the Military Police you see on are trying to get into other marines' pants, anyhow, so it may not be fully effective.

I'm surprised there's minimal research going into these arguements.

[ SOURCE 1 ] and [ SOURCE 2 ]

Honestly, while it's awesome that you researched this a bit, it's likely that hardly anyone will actually care and will continue to say "B-BUT META F-FRIENDING!" and the end result will be that the vote doesn't go through. Hopefully it does, because from what I've seen the people that have in-game relationships are generally better at RP and are more competent as players.

[Dragon2323]

Honestly, while it's awesome that you researched this a bit, it's likely that hardly anyone will actually care and will continue to say "B-BUT META F-FRIENDING!" and the end result will be that the vote doesn't go through. Hopefully it does, because from what I've seen the people that have in-game relationships are generally better at RP and are more competent as players.

At least the research is respectable, much rather than making an argument without any general input. I didn't just focus on the program, either - I went on to what support can be offered from staff and to staff in regards to the issue at hand. Nobody even appropriately roleplays on Colonial Marines, anyhow, aside from about eight or nine people, unfortunately.

[Toroic]

Humans forming relationships with other humans is going to happen if it isn't an RP server. The idea of 'people getting 2dspessmanmarried makes me uncomfortable, therefor ban it' just seems naive and more than a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Relationships are going to happen when people spend time together.

Romantic relationships really don't have a place on an action-oriented server.

[Wickedtemp]

Relationships are going to happen when people spend time together.

Romantic relationships really don't have a place on an action-oriented server.

Neither do clowns, but we have those.

And neither do random pizza-men, but we have those, too.

Also, that round where it was quite literally Freddie Mercury Alien vs Michael Jackson, that certainly didn't fit. But we did it, and it was fun.

Things don't necessarily need to 'have a place' in order to work out well and be kinda fun.

[MrGabol100]

Voted No, this isn't Vorestation, sorry guys, go ERP on another place.

Now, seriously, This isn't place for love stories, the Join spouse seems legit, but not between two standards...
You could have all whitelisted couples get job locked X character on only non-combat jobs, so this works, but that'd be really tarded and extremely complex.
Just drop it, this is a military themed server, RP is military RP, not romantic RP, you're not supossed to get married to another players In game coz muh RP, because that actually goes AGAISN'T RP.

[Wickedtemp]

Voted No, this isn't Vorestation, sorry guys, go ERP on another place.

Now, seriously, This isn't place for love stories, the Join spouse seems legit, but not between two standards...
You could have all whitelisted couples get job locked X character on only non-combat jobs, so this works, but that'd be really tarded and extremely complex.
Just drop it, this is a military themed server, RP is military RP, not romantic RP, you're not supossed to get married to another players In game coz muh RP, because that actually goes AGAISN'T RP.

What? Nobody encouraged ERP on the server to begin with. Seriously, there honestly probably won't be much 'romantic' RP anyways, aside from a few love-related phrases. At worst, that'll slightly annoy a person for like five seconds. If it's something that prevents you from enjoying a round, then you have bigger issues to worry about.

[Toroic]

Neither do clowns, but we have those.

And neither do random pizza-men, but we have those, too.

Also, that round where it was quite literally Freddie Mercury Alien vs Michael Jackson, that certainly didn't fit. But we did it, and it was fun.

Things don't necessarily need to 'have a place' in order to work out well and be kinda fun.

There is a massive difference between admin sanctioned silliness and players engaging in RP that does not belong on a military vessel with squads deployed on the ground.

I cannot stand playing marine because of the chucklefuckery that occurs on the ship and in briefing. It's not as horrible on the surface, but very few marines wouldn't be discharged for lack of professionalism.

There are like a dozen roleplayers who play on this server and engage in RP that has no place on this server, and have ridiculously snowflakey bios as well. I won't name names, because it's pretty obvious who they are.

Unfortunately, what they lack in appropiate RP they make up for in enthusiasm and understanding of game mechanics, so we seem to tolerate their inappropiate RP choices because no one wants to be the bad guy or be on the recieving end of the shitfit that will result.

Personally, I want my marines to act like marines, not like lolrandom teenagers with anime pictures.

I don't think that's unreasonable to ask.

[WyattH]

I would like to take a moment to point out if the reason apop doesn't like the idea of marriages is because of military as he claims, then he can't complain about marriages between the non-military staff like CL or how he's thinking about having medbay staff be 'civilians' on board.

Can you elaborate on what sort of RP you're looking for from xenos?

Even just the simple RP of calling the shuttle the bird, describing places on the map with xeno-like descriptions, not calling the humans 'marines', and acting towards each other like they should in the hive. Most especially deference to the queen. I don't think this is a huge problem with xenos but it's really painful to see more than half the hive not even doing simple RP as a xeno because they're so focused on winning. - but that isn't really the main topic of this thread anyway, would rather not derail the marriage discussion.

[HalfdeadKiller]

Personally. I think this should be allowed, provided those that are married are not using it as an excuse to cause mass grief. Obviously, this would have to be handled on a case by case basis. If someone leaves because some characters are ICly married, then that is fine. People leave all the time because of incompetent crew, dieing, or whatever reason they come up with on why they want to leave that current round.

If you really want to stop any sort of this "meta-friending" that I keep hearing about, then everyone having random names would be necessary. The issue with that, is that you have now thrown nearly all sorts of character development out of the window. And many players will probably leave, and good luck figuring out which random name marine will be competent. Another bonus to all random names, would be that marines can now play the game, with zero character bias. But what is the fun in just having the same repeating game? SS13 is played best for the stories you can tell from what I've found. It's a terrible game to watch due to how long it takes, but the stories players have are amazing.

If anyone has played a game called Natural Selection, random name marines could end up turning CM into that game type. Asymmetric balance, single RTS commander and then underlings. You would now have a competitive game, with little to no RP.

Sounds to me like the issue is, do you want to keep Role play? Or do you want to turn this into a simple, pew pew, blast aliens game?