This will be Deleted READ NOW! Someone save the document.

[Xurphorus]

Staff Salt > Player Salt, ...We're All Salty Now....''Gears 3 theme plays''.


No disrespect to the spriter, a lot of people just don't like the way they look, they look stiff as all hell, like someone shoved a stick up what would be a Xenomorphs anus and told it to walk with its ass cheeks closed. You cant fault the people who are airing out their salt because it builds over time, I bet sooner or later the tongue biters are going to say something about what they don't like, and then theres the ass kissers who will voice out their opinions. Its a cycle of salt and it will keep going no matter what happens.

[Varnock]

I'd rather keep things civil and constructive, Mister Varnock. So you can always count on me voicing my dissent politely. : p

Into a more pragmatic area of discussion, when it comes to balance I look at it from the angle of what can be exploited by a good xeno vs an assumedly good marine. It's pretty difficult to hit a strafing xeno. Part of their design should assume they are also going to take multiple shots at a time if they are generally out numbered. I already go for the strongest gun. I'm not debating that point at all (shotty and magnums here), but I do so because it's painfully obvious to me how little damage other guns do. The pulse rifle and other guns felt like they tickled things, even to runners. If I shoot a runner three times and it's still kicking, that's bad. That's a lot of rounds to land on something that moves so quickly and can tackle me to the floor, then put a pair of huggers on my face or slash my eyes out.

So I've started going shotgun, because repeated checks of my logs show what should be squishier xenos (hunters and stuff), absorbing 5 or more rounds. Hunters can tackle me to the floor and do even more melee damage than runners, I think. So if I'm going to have any chance of fighting them, they need to die sooner than that, or I know I'm just generally fucked. : p And for the sake of clarity. . . When I talk how much of each weapon type a xeno can take, I don't care about the RNG—I figure some will miss or deflect. It's more important to me how many "direct hits" they can eat, and how long I have to stay in a fight to land those bullets. It appeared to be a pretty big number before the update. After I'm guessing it's even more.

And again, I still don't feel marines have as much at their disposal to fight xenos with. Our guns have various attachments, yes. But mechanic wise, marines only have damage and barricades. Xenos get to do that AND disables, friendly fire, seeing in the dark, seeing through walls, HP regen (big list), -almost- no drawbacks from injuries (not regenerating plasma I didn't know about), but in a melee situation a marine can become too injured to use their weapon, and a xeno can't, so that evens out. Game mechanic wise, xenomorphs actually have had way more tools at their disposal than marines ever did IMHO. I think I'm being factual here. If any of this seems entirely false, please correct me.

And prior to the patch, I frequently saw crushers causing trouble for groups of marines alone (they are supposed to bring backup), meaning stat wise, I assume they were plenty hard enough in terms of damage and armor. Crushers played right with backup? I just. . . I feel like talented xenos just got exponentially buffed on a class that was already buffed well beyond marines in every sense of resistance and utility. Damage was the one debatable arena, it was close when you factored in resistance. Now I doubt it is.

It seems here like you're considering a 1v1, which, in my honest opinion, a xeno shouldn't lose. Like ever. What normally happens is a xeno eating bullets from three different direction as a squad chases after them. Also meleeing a xeno is never a good idea, for several reasons. Marines entire shtick is ranged combat and teamwork, which is what they should stick to.

And really that's another major advantage marines have, in and of that all of them are ranged combatants, while xenos have to dive through a hail of bullets to hit you, or maybe can acid snipe a few people? The sentinel caste, all of them even, have really easy to dodge spit too. This leaves out mines, which I guess can equate to eggs, and turrets, which just destroy xenos pretty much all the time.

As for crushers, their whole think is being a tank. Soaking up bullets is what they're good at.

It's just marines can move almost if not just as fast as one, and it's pretty easy to dodge that stomp and keep unloading into them. Again, probably different now, but in all my experience playing it was almost always favoring marines, which is why xenos have been getting buffs.

I do agree that a talented xeno is probably going to be a bitch and a half to deal with now, but the same can still be said of a robust marine and their squad/the FOB. Especially if slashing isn't allowed, but most Queen realize the importance of that and let it happen early on.

(As an aside, I suggest you try the M4 again. Sure the shotgun does the damage, but it fires much more slowly and I don't think it can ever burst, which is where I feel a lot of the damage is coming from lately. Or, at least, that's what I almost always see used.)

All I said in OOC was. "I didn't like them and I'd rather have the old ones back" That's what made me snap and do this. Then everyone starting calling me an asshole and dick that day. I was polite and stated what I thought. I wasn't being a dick.

And then there's this... Honestly I don't really like how Apop handled that, but my opinion there isn't really applicable. All I can really say is that we're all human (probably) on the other sides of our screens, and humans have a tendency to be asshats sometimes.

[Skycave1]

Soldier 76 voice

We're all salty now

[balegrim]

I actually have a specific question about burst fire, Varnock. In burst mode, a marine just fires three bullets one after the other right? Is it any different than me spam clicking in non-burst mode? IE: in burst mode, the first contact does not equal 3 bullets, right? They can still dodge the other two? I almost never use burst fire because it seems to shoot at the same pace as me just spastically clicking in non-burst mode. But if that first round did 3 bullets of damage? Hoo, 'nother story.

[Westhybrid]

If Apop lashed out to your response, I don't like that he did that, but I also can't really blame him. For the same reason I'm defending Fridge, I'm sure Apop appreciates the work our spriters put into the update, regardless of the current public opinion.

That being said, your voices are being heard, but the concept of "too soon" really should apply here. It's not the end of the world. The sprites are even still being worked on. The least everyone can do is be a little more calm and cordial, out of respect for Fridge and the rest of the team. We're simply asking for patience.

[Xurphorus]

West, why are you the voice of reason, when I read your posts I just feel like I see a smaller majestic elk furry in armor, riding on and even bigger majestic elk with a saddle.

[Varnock]

I actually have a specific question about burst fire, Varnock. In burst mode, a marine just fires three bullets one after the other right? Is it any different than me spam clicking in non-burst mode? IE: in burst mode, the first contact does not equal 3 bullets, right? They can still dodge the other two? I almost never use burst fire because it seems to shoot at the same pace as me just spastically clicking in non-burst mode. But if that first round did 3 bullets of damage? Hoo, 'nother story.

As far as I can tell from my various experiments with different guns, attachments, and other kill-y type things it averages a bit more fire speed, and by extension damage.

I know you can get an smg to burst like... seven fucking bullets with a burst fire attachment, which is hilarious with a quickfire on top as well as a charger on the barrel.

It's just the accuracy cut it gives that makes it slightly less viable, but chances are high you're firing that burst where you click, or at least near it, which can mean some hefty damage in a straight corridor.

It FEELS like it does more damage too, but that might just be because you're getting hit multiple times in a short period. I'd have to actually check variables to give you a concrete answer, and at that point I think I couldn't, since gun damage is secret.

[Skycave1]

West, why are you the voice of reason, when I read your posts I just feel like I see a smaller majestic elk furry in armor, riding on and even bigger majestic elk with a saddle.

Because West is a chill motherfucker. In general he's chill. He see's both sides, yet he chooses what he likes. I might have been a bit harsh, But the only reason why I snapped was the overall Salt mine explosion. Apop didn't ask if anyone liked them, didn't do a vote to see. Then pointed out one person who was willing to open up and give the opinion. The spriters work hard and I know that. I did say it wasn't a personal attack. Just a mine of salt spilling to release stress.

[northcote4]

From what I've seen, burst-fire also seems to have bullet spread. I believe within 2 tiles either side of what you're aiming at. But that's just my experience in the firing range.

[balegrim]

Ope, and yeah, I am looking at it more from a 1v1 scenario (then in my head doubling my damage with another marine, but also maybe not because friendly fire). I sort of anticipate as large as this server has gotten, and will probably be, that the playerbase will eventually be even where matches start with a fairly even number of xenos and marines. Or it is very much intended to get that way because of the rules we play by (waiting for xenos to build their army). If the goal is to "RP" long enough to let xenos build up, I feel that marine defeat is going to be somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy after the update. Because super robust marines who are working together may get facerolled by ancient crushers regardless of how good their tactics are.

I'm just speculating. But I'm worried xenos have what's almost a buff that equates to playing the game on easy mode with this update. Like I said, I need to play more to see, time will tell. But from what I read about ravagers and crushers getting ancient, and hunters and runners, you can expect at least a few people to nail it. And nobody should be so tough they can just run in, hack down marines, and run out because they know four marines will have to pack 30 bullets into them to be at risk (here's looking at you, ancient hunters and runners).

[Xurphorus]

Varnok and Balegrim, this is a rant thread, not a thread about exchanging ideas about RP and weapon attachments. GG

[Varnock]

But Xur I want it to stop being a rant thread...

I'll come back after I play a few rounds with some hot new opinions then

[balegrim]

Also, thanks everyone for input about burst fire. I put my faith in the animations, and to me, it looks like it fires 3 separate bullets. I have noticed they do spread. They don't seem to blast out that much faster than when I click in non-burst mode. Any attachment that reduces accuracy seems like a not so bright idea at that point, because there's a fair chance I'll shoot 5 rounds and only connect with two (unless I can nab an RDS to compensate, but that totally depends on me usually being in the round at round start).

[LordLoko]

I'm ok with OP xenos, but the sprites...

It looks like the aleins are moonwlaking, lol

Also, this trhead has SO much salt that this looks the dead sea.

[balegrim]

Lulz. Varn and Balegrim derail a rant thread with chill discussion of RP, game play mechanics, and balance considerations. We should be forum bant for several days for posting off topic.

[coolsurf6]

Skycave god damn it. You always act childish and are a complete asshole sometimes. The devs did something for us and you should appriciatr it. Or go and fuck of somewhere else. There are plenty if other servers that you can play on.

[doodeeda]

All I said in OOC was. "I didn't like them and I'd rather have the old ones back" That's what made me snap and do this. Then everyone starting calling me an asshole and dick that day. I was polite and stated what I thought. I wasn't being a dick.

No, that's not all you said. You were not polite and calm at all. I don't really know you that well but after seeing you type in deadchat and then OOC I'd rather not get to know you. It makes me laugh that in this thread you made it sound like you were out of the blue lynched.

[Skycave1]

No, that's not all you said. You were not polite and calm at all. I don't really know you that well but after seeing you type in deadchat and then OOC I'd rather not get to know you. It makes me laugh that in this thread you made it sound like you were out of the blue lynched.

That was AFTER he called me out.

[NoShamNoWow]

No, that's not all you said. You were not polite and calm at all. I don't really know you that well but after seeing you type in deadchat and then OOC I'd rather not get to know you. It makes me laugh that in this thread you made it sound like you were out of the blue lynched.

No, apop was a rude and called Jim out for giving his opinion. Jim was not being disrespectful, He. Gave. A. Opinion. Stop with your personal lynch hunt on Jim please.

[Skycave1]

I don't even play here that much anymore. But I mean come the fuck on. I hopped on after hearing about these new sprites and I thought they were a FUCKING JOKE! Do not get me wrong. These are some pretty good sprites. But than you look at the tiling sprites and the marines and their armor sprites and all this over shit. And it just DOES NOT WORK... I am sorry but how did you look at these sprites with your current servers tileset, Human mobs and clothing and thought that this was a good idea?

SHAM HAS BEEN SAYING THAT SOOOO MUCH, SAS!

[Tristan63]

It takes a fucking dipshit to actually write about this, think to post it, and actually fucking post it.
Man if you have a bigger dick than apop, just roll with the updates.

[Desolane900]

I get xenos need the upper hand because number raisins but goddamn if they need THIS MUCH of an upper hand. God forbid a xeno goes Ancient or Elite, like a crusher or a ravager. It can stand to be toned down. But what do I know? Like Xur said, we're the players and staff are staff.

Edit: As a very down to Earth, in your face, kind of guy I can safely say that the rest of the server needs an entirely new tileset, with a shit ton of spriting to be done to achieve anything noteworthy, or remove the new sprites until you get the rest of the server up to par with them. It isn't rocket science.

I've done some reading about how things used to be before I showed up and apparently not much has changed. People are still getting shit on for their opinions by those we regard as higher ups and nobody with any amount of power seems to want to work with the playerbase to build a more solid community. You could compare this community to that movie Elysium, where the rich are up in space making decisions for the poor down on Earth and nobody on Earth has a say in the matter. They just get to wallow in their filth and bring prestige to the people of softer birth. Instead of treating CM like North Korea, making staff members out to be police and dictators, we should have a system where opinions are met with neutral acknowledgment and an explanation is written up as to why or why-not the opinion is helpful in trying to get to the end goal of the big picture, whatever that may be.

I don't agree with 90% of how things are done in this little place we call our own and I'm judging as I see it coming. This entire jumbled mess of sleep deprived ramblings is pointless anyway. Nothing anyone says is going to make a difference with anybody else and that isn't changing any time soon. This is, of course, an opinion, and I know I'm already on a sheet of ice as thick as twine but I feel like something had to be contributed because if nobody else wants the best for this server, then I might as well stand the fuck up and try myself.

[Tristan63]

It takes a dumbshit to consider even putting this out there with it being expected to be deleted.
Listen man just deal with it, the updates are cool and in a logical sense xenos would win most of the time anyway.

[Fritigern]

I really enjoy how my response was deleted. This whole situation has just become absolutely hilarious to me at this point.

So, salt aside, I'd say objectively the sprites aren't very good. Not on a technical level, but in terms of aesthetics. Hopefully it's changed back.

[doodeeda]

No, apop was a rude and called Jim out for giving his opinion. Jim was not being disrespectful, He. Gave. A. Opinion. Stop with your personal lynch hunt on Jim please.

Jim did not say only that which is my point. Isn't it odd how this happened

Then everyone starting calling me an asshole and dick that day. I was polite and stated what I thought.

If all he said was that screenshot? A lot of people were saying things along the lines of "i don't like these sprites please change" and they weren't abused or noticed on OOC. Why only Jim? He said much more, that's why, and this manipulation gets on my nerves. I'm not sure exactly what he said in deadchat and OOC anymore but most of it was in caps and not respectful.