Xeno Hugger Combat Removal Discussion

[Butterrobber202]

Alright, just a place to talk about the HC removal, for discussing new tactics now that this major change is in place.

For example, you people need to learn that Drones are now needed for infections if you dont want to tackle spam a Marine back to the hive, so a no drone hive can and will screw up the Xenos later in the round ,due to lacking numbers.

[Crab_Spider]

So basically, more Carriers and Hivelords?

[tuzz]

I think it is on the right track, but there are a few issues.

1. Only carriers can effectively infect anymore. Even if they manage to, chances are they infect host will still be in the middle of marines and won't get dragged back, resulting in a dead larva once it pops. This means way less larva and less slots for dead players to rejoin, and less player retention since more people will get bored and leave.

2. Egg cost. No matter how you put it 500 plasma is way too much for an egg. It is incredibly tedious to lay eggs and wait for plasma. It takes so long for eggs to mature. I think 150-200 plasma would be more fitting, and perhaps a 400 plasma egg that matures faster.

3. Crusher stomp change. This definitely lowers their utility, perhaps it was warranted. Will have to play more crusher to see. Best use for the new ability would probably be for trampling screeched targets.

5. Hugger 30 second lifespan. Mostly okay with this, just annoying since eggs cost so much, it is painful when they die because they were in your hand too long.

6. Huggers inactive when thrown. Seems impossible for a carrier to throw a hugger on the face of a downed target. Not sure if this is a bug or I was just unlucky with RNG, but it makes it that much harder to infect.

7. Xeno embryos will continue to grow if the person is dead but can still be revived. Questionable. Perhaps if it only applied to suicides or FF, or anything but slashes. As it is, it is better to kill an infected marine, which isn't really a good mechanic.

8. Xenos can slash chairs/beds. Doesn't seem to work on chairs at least. No big deal either way. Would help QOL a little when melting chairs on the dropships.

9. Basic helmets no longer protect against huggers. Probably the biggest buff for xenos, but I'm not sure if its the right change, since it really only helps carriers now.

10. Infection speed is much faster. Don't really like this either. You no longer have the insurance of your helmet and getting hugged now is essentially a death sentence.

11. Defelction is no longer a thing except for crushers. This is mostly okay, but now xeno lives are much fewer, having them squishier too makes it a bit harder. I think their health should be raised in place of deflection.

12. Bullets travel faster. Welcome change. Makes FF less likely and makes shooting make more sense in general.

[Liran343]

Honey you mean xeno BUFF discussion.

Just read the patch notes and I must say I'm impressed and horrified at the same time...
"Deflection is no longer a thing" oh baby ez stun killz on down xenos.
"Xenomorphs now move slower when seriously injured" breath of fresh air.
"Huggers cannot be stripped off from those who are hugged. Infection is much faster, and your helmet won't save you.
Huggers will now leap on to potential targets on their own. Watch out." WAKE ME UP INSIDE I can't wake up
"Huggers can be placed back in the egg by clicking on it with a living hugger"- you need to put a disclaimer here that says that only xenos that can hold huggers have the option of putting them back directly.

[Toroic]

Honey you mean xeno BUFF discussion.

Just read the patch notes and I must say I'm impressed and horrified at the same time...
"Deflection is no longer a thing" oh baby ez stun killz on down xenos.
"Xenomorphs now move slower when seriously injured" breath of fresh air.
"Huggers cannot be stripped off from those who are hugged. Infection is much faster, and your helmet won't save you.
Huggers will now leap on to potential targets on their own. Watch out." WAKE ME UP INSIDE I can't wake up
"Huggers can be placed back in the egg by clicking on it with a living hugger"- you need to put a disclaimer here that says that only xenos that can hold huggers have the option of putting them back directly.

Good to see you haven't changed.

Carriers get a massive buff, crushers get a massive nerf, every other xeno is about where they were before.

So basically, more Carriers and Hivelords?

A single hivelord per hive is optional. More than that is actively unhelpful as hivelord don't provide enough utility to justify a t2 slot. Hivelord also get a significant nerf from before because xenos have no reason to use tunnels; they have no reason to leave the front lines except to move into cover to heal.

[Renomaki]

I think it is on the right track, but there are a few issues.

6. Huggers inactive when thrown. Seems impossible for a carrier to throw a hugger on the face of a downed target. Not sure if this is a bug or I was just unlucky with RNG, but it makes it that much harder to infect.

You think that is bad? Back then, carriers were forces of nature, armed with HOMING MISSILES that we call First Test Huggers. The moment they would land, they'd jump forward a few more tiles towards the closet marine, giving carriers insane range and killing power.

The reason they made it so missed huggers become inactive was because carriers ended up being far too powerful. It is only fair due to how deadly these insta infections are nowadays.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Just throw the hugger on top of the downed target, wait like 5 seconds, it will leap on its own.

[Habalabam]

1. I think drones should be able to move (unopened) eggs. This way drones can create a nesting setup that anybody can use. Maybe even hide eggs.
2. Runner (/Sentinel) should reduce upgrade cost until we can reclaim some of its playability/utility. People are genuinely unhappy about being stuck in T1.
3. The queen should be able to lay eggs faster. This can be achieved by lowering plasma cost or by the queen getting a plasma regen buff, or maybe, a significant boost if she is not permitting slashing in combination with being affected by recover pheromone. That way, it will mostly be a "peacetime" thing and will open up some strategic considerations. As long as there is action, the hive is prevented from recovering with maximum efficiency. It makes sense that a "stressed" hive is not laying eggs as fast as one working at cruising speed.
4. Tackling an already downed human should have higher success rate. It's still a massive nerf from dragging a hugged marine.

These seem onesided. But they are mostly hive centric stuff to stop menial stuff. They wont change much on the battlefield itself.

[Nick123q23]

It feels a lot closer to how aliens act in the actual movies and games. Though, a side effect is that any infected hosts you get often die of their wounds before they burst.

[Reuben Owen]

I miss seeing 10 infected marines all nested and watched like hawks.

[fatalityfun]

I agree on the idea that drones should be able to move eggs. Would allow for less reliance on queens egg laying.
Plus cooler looking hives :P

[jusa297]

I agree on the idea that drones should be able to move eggs. Would allow for less reliance on queens egg laying.
Plus cooler looking hives :P

Are you saying thay xenos shouldn't relay on the queen placing eggs which is the only purpose of a queen?

[fatalityfun]

Are you saying thay xenos shouldn't relay on the queen placing eggs which is the only purpose of a queen?

I was saying it moreso in a way where if a queen lays eggs far behind, and you want easier access to eggs you can move them up. Many queens (as far as I've seen) will lay one big batch of eggs then go combat for the rest of the game, resulting in a dead queen and no larva.

[jusa297]

I was saying it moreso in a way where if a queen lays eggs far behind, and you want easier access to eggs you can move them up. Many queens (as far as I've seen) will lay one big batch of eggs then go combat for the rest of the game, resulting in a dead queen and no larva.

I am the most guilty to do this I agree with what you're saying, but moving the eggs isn't really a solution, you would just end up with so many dead eggs before they can be usefull at all.

[Habalabam]

Maybe drones should be able to pick up and carry NPC larvae. When the bullets starts creeping up the barrens, the drones will start ferrying the larvae deep inside the caves, resembling an ant hill.

[kroack]

I feel that xenos are killing too many marines too often in rounds now, mostly because of these changed mechanics. There's not really any fool proof way to capture marines without getting yourself shot to shit, which leads to most skirmishes ending with xenos tackling and slashing everyone.

I play xeno rounds now where we at most will capture five or six marines, and still steamroll them. I think a xeno victory should depend on the amount of captured hosts, but that's just my two cents.

[MrJJJ]

Once was a doctor in a round, we got no more than 15 patients in one round because all marines died at the ground most of the time and were either too late to send up or were decapped

[Liran343]

Once was a doctor in a round, we got no more than 15 patients in one round because all marines died at the ground most of the time and were either too late to send up or were decapped

Step 1: accepting you death. sorry

[Tidomann]

Spam sentinels instead of runners. Easy Stunlocks for capturing.

[Nyeshivuu]

Spam

Easy stunlocks

*eye twitches

[Reuben Owen]

Infections aren't even needed now. Xenos have the strength to bumrush to a violent victory without infecting a single Marine. Many monkeys give them the backup numbers they need, not 'real' infections.

I mean it's helpful to infect a Marine still and Carriers still want huggers all the time. But infections now are secondary in comparison to the strategy that is just killing everything. Only 1 Xeno caste continuously utilizes huggers away from the hive. 1 out of 11 types. 12 if you count the Queen.

Sure you can stunlock a Marine all the way to an egg but really, it's not worth it. Only 4 out of 11 types can subdue a Marine long enough to bring them to a nest. That is without slashing them up until near death. Even then Marines pull out mag harness shit amongst other things that makes them more dangerous when trying to carry them long distances alive.

Ever since the removal of "hugger combat" the Queen's don't even need to make a hive anymore, just some eggs and nests for the monkeys (even more of the time in the north east area). I barely even see Marines in nests that have doors. Even less are the Sentinel castes who guard infected. Mostly because they don't need to be guarded. It's so quick now that it just doesn't need to be done in most circumstances and therefore becomes the norm.

My main point is infections are now secondary to slashes. They should be the Xenos primary goal as a whole group, not an optional sidequest.