Secure nests or Nest Chambers

[Weaselburg]

in a secure nest, the worst case scenario is a marine killing himself, in nest chambers however, its everyone escaping together, or even killing the guarding sentinels/drones and ovi queen, seen it happen.

For chambers I mean 3 nests to 1 room. Not one big chamber.

[Toroic]

I really like this style as sentinel and as marine. I should start making a compilation of every time I've killed myself as marine while nested. It also gives Xenos a set place to guard, and for non sentinel's to drop off hosts too. I honestly think Xenos would have more larvae bursted if they use this design, the only thing you might have to worry about is mag harness shotguns, but as a Xeno you get a much more cushioned response time to stun and nest the marine.

Also Toroic what's with the hostility?

How did you spell my name wrong when you literally just had to copy the letters as you saw them?

You're 100% wrong about the nest design, and you most definitely do not only need to worry about mag harness shotguns. Flamethrowers and grenades also allow marines to kill other infected, nested marines very quickly and easily. I remember having the same debate about nest style back in 2016 and the right answer has always been checkerboard nests 2-3 rows deep.

You have obviously never tried to navigate one of the ¨secure¨ nests mazes that are made, do you? Sometimes, if they are in a row it works, but they can expand to be over 10 tiles deep and 10 tiles long. I have guarded them as a beno and been in them as a marine, and they suck. Also, what is up with the insults and hostility? This is meant to be a debate, not a flame war.

There's never a need for a 10x10 pocket of nests and doors. That's 100% an issue with the drone building poorly, but they're still superior to nested marines in adjacent tiles, because marines can free other marines and drop grenades killing multiple larva purely because the nests were poorly built.

Also, you literally told people to tear each other apart in your first post starting this thread, and then are mad.

I'm going to put this as nicely as possible without straight up lying:

Your and Sulaboy's responses in this thread roughly match the general robustness I've seen from most xeno rounds I've played in. This level of robustness and mechanical understanding is far, far below that of an average marine and a massive factor in why xenos lose as often as they do. Marines know very clearly that being in an isolated nest is least advantageous to them, and being in a room with a bunch of other nested marines is a daring escape or mass suicide waiting to happen, either of which is better for marines.

Xeno players should not still be confused as to what nest types are effective, or how to build checkerboard nests correctly. Marines have developed their metagame and coordination significantly over the last two years and I've never seen xenos as sloppy, slow, and uncoordinated as in the past few weeks. The vast majority of xenos are playing like it's the second time playing xeno, and they probably actually are.

I'm a little irritated you were able to come to such an obviously subpar solution with such confidence, but it's less your fault for being new and more the fault of xeno players having to fight uphill for any sense of community and having massive turnover.

[Renomaki]

Honestly, Nest chambers are only really good during the early parts of the round, when the only hosts you have are monkies and maybe the odd survivor or two.

Once the marines get planetside, however, you need to start making reinforced nests that keep hosts separated, yet close together so as to better watch over them. Recent updates changed how drones can build secure nests (doors requiring a wall nearby in order to place), so while honeycomb designs are dead, cellblock bunkers are the new way to go about things.

Of course, because of said update, I can understand why some drones would resort to just making chambers over complex cellblocks simply due to it being stupid easy. Laziness, however, is what gets xenos killed, just as it kills marines.

And that isn't even getting into where drones should SET UP such nests. Setting up close to combat zones is a good tactic, but also increases the risk of the hosts escaping if marines push hard enough. On the other hand, building far from the front makes capturing more of a burden and can also be more dangerous due to the lack of xenos behind the lines. Finding the right spot can sometimes be tricky, moreso if NO ONE USES IT after all the work you put into it...

[Sulaboy]

-Snip

The reason I like the chambers as sentinel is because you just middle click and nest any escapees. The reason I like them as marines is because I can talk to any other captured marines. The chance of breaking out of one of these nests is very low, and so is the chance of a marine suiciding.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

The reason I like the chambers as sentinel is because you just middle click and nest any escapees. The reason I like them as marines is because I can talk to any other captured marines. The chance of breaking out of one of these nests is very low, and so is the chance of a marine suiciding.

Sure, while the chance of them escaping out alone is very low, if they're strong enough to break out, say goodbye to your guarding sentinel if it's not ancient, because a cooperation in breaking out is absolutely deadly for benos.

[Sulaboy]

Sure, while the chance of them escaping out alone is very low, if they're strong enough to break out, say goodbye to your guarding sentinel if it's not ancient, because a cooperation in breaking out is absolutely deadly for benos.

A sentinel ought to be able to handle more than one marine, they have a home turf advantage. If you just put the hosts away in cells you give up time, if you stay in there with multiple it could be risky, but it's more rewarding.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

A sentinel ought to be able to handle more than one marine, they have a home turf advantage. If you just put the hosts away in cells you give up time, if you stay in there with multiple it could be risky, but it's more rewarding.

You are severely overestimating the skill of the average sentinel that is willing to guard host. Coupling with bad neuro RNG and you have a dead sentinel on your hand. It's definitely way more risky, but it's not any more rewarding at all. If you put hosts away in cells with like 2 layers, it's a way safer option, with your sentinel still being to hang out in a cell near the host and be ready to move in when someone breaks out.

Heck, even I don't really like the checkerboard type of nest. I like a grid nest like :

W D W D W
D N D N D
W D W D W
D N D N D
W D W D W

While the amount of nest is less than what you'd get with checkerboard, you absolutely limit down the chance of marines saving each other out, saving your poor sentinels and maybe runners/hunters/drones/spitters from the fate of dying to marine prison break. With the normal checkerboard nest, an opened door can lead to another nested rine primed for helping. But no siree, this grid nest won't have any of that shit.

[Weaselburg]

How did you spell my name wrong when you literally just had to copy the letters as you saw them?

You're 100% wrong about the nest design, and you most definitely do not only need to worry about mag harness shotguns. Flamethrowers and grenades also allow marines to kill other infected, nested marines very quickly and easily. I remember having the same debate about nest style back in 2016 and the right answer has always been checkerboard nests 2-3 rows deep.



There's never a need for a 10x10 pocket of nests and doors. That's 100% an issue with the drone building poorly, but they're still superior to nested marines in adjacent tiles, because marines can free other marines and drop grenades killing multiple larva purely because the nests were poorly built.

Also, you literally told people to tear each other apart in your first post starting this thread, and then are mad.

I'm going to put this as nicely as possible without straight up lying:

Your and Sulaboy's responses in this thread roughly match the general robustness I've seen from most xeno rounds I've played in. This level of robustness and mechanical understanding is far, far below that of an average marine and a massive factor in why xenos lose as often as they do. Marines know very clearly that being in an isolated nest is least advantageous to them, and being in a room with a bunch of other nested marines is a daring escape or mass suicide waiting to happen, either of which is better for marines.

Xeno players should not still be confused as to what nest types are effective, or how to build checkerboard nests correctly. Marines have developed their metagame and coordination significantly over the last two years and I've never seen xenos as sloppy, slow, and uncoordinated as in the past few weeks. The vast majority of xenos are playing like it's the second time playing xeno, and they probably actually are.

I'm a little irritated you were able to come to such an obviously subpar solution with such confidence, but it's less your fault for being new and more the fault of xeno players having to fight uphill for any sense of community and having massive turnover.

It was meant as a joke, as I knew the discussion would be heated. And I have them in a room of THREE nests, not a big chamber, as those SUCK. And most of the time you will spread around the captures so each ¨chamber¨ is never full. That is what I mean.

[begad]

I would say Secure nests,It separates the hosts from each other which wouldn't allow them to corporate with each other on escaping.

[Weaselburg]

Secure nests CAN work in the right conditions and if it is made well, but they almost NEVER are. I have seen a few that worked well, and the frontline nests that you place hosts in for processing should all be Secure, but if they do not meet the two then you need to put them in a small chamber.

[Toroic]

The reason I like the chambers as sentinel is because you just middle click and nest any escapees. The reason I like them as marines is because I can talk to any other captured marines. The chance of breaking out of one of these nests is very low, and so is the chance of a marine suiciding.

You can easily control several marines in secure nests as a single sentinel, or even as a drone with frenzy on. There’s no reason to have a chamber with multiple nests after all the monkeys are gone.

Marine enjoyment has no influence on proper nest design. The goal is not to make nests fun, but to effectively hold infected and captured marines.

It was meant as a joke, as I knew the discussion would be heated. And I have them in a room of THREE nests, not a big chamber, as those SUCK. And most of the time you will spread around the captures so each ¨chamber¨ is never full. That is what I mean.

Then what’s the point of having a chamber with three nests if you’re not going to pack marines in there? It’s either asking for trouble or a waste of space.

I understand that most drones are terrible at building which is typically compounded by terrible queen leadership, but that doesn’t change which designs are effective and efficient.

[Rohesie]

Heck, even I don't really like the checkerboard type of nest. I like a grid nest like :

W D W D W
D N D N D
W D W D W
D N D N D
W D W D W

While the amount of nest is less than what you'd get with checkerboard, you absolutely limit down the chance of marines saving each other out, saving your poor sentinels and maybe runners/hunters/drones/spitters from the fate of dying to marine prison break. With the normal checkerboard nest, an opened door can lead to another nested rine primed for helping. But no siree, this grid nest won't have any of that shit.

YES! THIS! 100% agreed. Much better than checkered, but lazy drones/hivelords rarely make them.

A marine who managed to escape will naturally try to free others if they are in his escape path, but if he manages to escape and has to go through a door to save another marine he will just try to flee. Mostly because he can't know there's someone behind the door.

Checkered patterns are sub-optimal, and common chambers are simply bad. I reserve those for when there are very few marines and I'm 100% confident in my ability to hold them, myself guarding them. Then they can get a bit of RP and communication. But not as a general design other xenos will have to be forced to use.

[Weaselburg]

YES! THIS! 100% agreed. Much better than checkered, but lazy drones/hivelords rarely make them.

A marine who managed to escape will naturally try to free others if they are in his escape path, but if he manages to escape and has to go through a door to save another marine he will just try to flee. Mostly because he can't know there's someone behind the door.

Checkered patterns are sub-optimal, and common chambers are simply bad. I reserve those for when there are very few marines and I'm 100% confident in my ability to hold them, myself guarding them. Then they can get a bit of RP and communication. But not as a general design other xenos will have to be forced to use.

I get what you guys are saying, but most of the time marines just shoot themselves right off the bat, and this kind of design slows response time by a lot.

[Rohesie]

I get what you guys are saying, but most of the time marines just shoot themselves right off the bat, and this kind of design slows response time by a lot.

It takes a long time for them to be able to suicide, unless they are using grenades. And even then the damage is minimized by secure nests.

As a marine prisoner I fear secure nests the most. By far.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

I get what you guys are saying, but most of the time marines just shoot themselves right off the bat, and this kind of design slows response time by a lot.

I mean, it's like 2 layers of doors at most. If your sentinels can't be trusted to walk through 2 layers of doors in 6 seconds given to them (3 for break out delay, at least 3 for suiciding with target mouth), they should just be young runners and fight somewhere private.

[Imperator_Titan]

Eh, secure nests are generally the better option imo. Much less chance of a marine escaping and running amok unlike the chambers. There's really no reason as to why you shouldn't be building secure nests instead of chambers.

[Sulaboy]

I mean, it's like 2 layers of doors at most. If your sentinels can't be trusted to walk through 2 layers of doors in 6 seconds given to them (3 for break out delay, at least 3 for suiciding with target mouth), they should just be young runners and fight somewhere private.

But you don't target mouth, you just shoot yourself in your now unprotected head. The face hugger rips helmets off, so just aim head harm intent, and click until you die or a Xeno stops you. I bring a M4A3 with me every match (mostly to give others as a side arm or if I lose my primary), but when I get captured I can just shoot myself in the head.



Like this

[Rohesie]

snip

You had a 88 Mod 4 and plenty of time by the looks of it. You could have simply used the gun-in-mouth technique and suicide effectively. The picture doesn't even show how many shots were fired in total. Of course, if the captured marine is robust and the guarding xeno is bald no setup will fix the issue. Most of the people I see shooting themselves survive the infection and give birth to a proper larva.

The main difference is that in a common nest the risk is of the hosts killing the guards and in a secure nest it's of them simply committing suicide.

Thanks to being held in a common nest I could effectively engage in CQC with my knife against a sentinel (had room to dodge its spit, instead of being push-locked in a corner by a disarm-intent xeno that would eventually tackle me), being able to set an OB and completely destroying the nest and killing the hosts. In a secure nest I'd have simply been tackled/spat as I tried to set up the SB or attack the xeno with the knife. At best I could have stabbed my own face.

[Loco52]

Nest chambers are a problem because:

1- Proximity from hosts to one another. A 5+ nest chamber is undesirable because most of the times the 3 sentinels and 2 runners that are in the hive will open all the doors at the same time when one marine breaks free from the resin wall. Which is an offset because other smart marines who were waiting for this very moment would break free and nade the fuck out of the nested hosts and/or some poor larva in the way.

2- Blocking. This depends on the drone.. really. Know where to build your damn nest chambers.

I personally like to make when I play drone (rarely) linear horizontal secure nests due to an easier access to every tallhost, which prevents the suicide rate and bald guarding accidents.

[x31stOverlord]

I personally do not like honeycomb nests, they may be effective for the space available at the time, but I find that if one marine gets up and manages to get a nade or two off it could be the death of a few marines surrounding him and that is a waste.

I prefer making secure nests that are segregated by space but remaining in close proximity so a single sentinel can keep an eye on them all. Works better with a hive lord. I'll try and get a screenshot later. I had a pretty good set up on ice in the library last night but forgot to get a screenshots after the round.

[Potato Masher]

I actually kinda like the three nest chambers. Sort of a compromise between big chambers and secure nests. Doesn't make marines feel hopeless as soon as they get nested, but is still somewhat easy to defend as sent.

I'll start making these instead, as long as MetaOnlyDrone Number 37,289 doesn't tear it down while screeching about resin doors being terrible or something.