What Xenos Need

[Simo94]

Buckshot shotgun simply lost most of its counters, back in the day you hesitated on taking shotguns because Carriers throwing huggers and Praetorians firing pain crit spits from range were a thing, you just haul ass or switch to another weapon, nowadays anything that can endanger you has to get in your buckshot range first for it to do so, so buckshotters always have a chance to blast all castes.

PS: Spitters arent worth mentioning.

[Swagile]

Buckshot shotgun simply lost most of its counters, back in the day you hesitated on taking shotguns because Carriers throwing huggers and Praetorians firing pain crit spits from range were a thing, you just haul ass or switch to another weapon, nowadays anything that can endanger you has to get in your buckshot range first for it to do so, so buckshotters always have a chance to blast all castes.

PS: Spitters arent worth mentioning.

rofl spitters are literally a tickle till Elite

Prae's are decent at Mature, but from what ive seen, their only good use isn't the acid sprays, but the ability to multi stun.

Same with Spitters; their acid isn't their main buff, its the stun, since tackle is no longer as effective.

Honestly, a sentinel is more useful at killing shit than a Runner at this point (due to its stun), which is pretty sad.

I don't miss being constantly tackle spammed, and it was shit, but there needs to be an alternative instead of just completely nerfing it into the ground, considering tackle was a universal equalizer that kept marines from pushing in too hard early-mid game.

[Simo94]

I think one of the solutions is to give Praetorians their old acid spit back, maybe for lower damage or something.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Sentinels are 100% better at killing than Runners which is pretty sad.

I feel like since Carrier is a T3 now throwing huggers should actually be useful, but only if it direct hits someone.

[kastion]

Sentinels are 100% better at killing than Runners which is pretty sad.

I feel like since Carrier is a T3 now throwing huggers should actually be useful, but only if it direct hits someone.

carrier were always t3 thye just didnt tell us so i know they aint gonna buff the carrier at all.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Make thrown huggers hug on contact with downed marines. Done. Easy buff

Next up, get Runner up to speed. I feel like right now Runner is only to get Lurker and Rav, as it's so shit on its own.

Lastly, focus the queen on this SO aspect, with ovi, heal, pheromones (make it global if you want, or give the queen more stars to throw out.), and move the evo and age progress buff to the ovi itself.

[kastion]

Make thrown huggers hug on contact with downed marines. Done. Easy buff

Next up, get Runner up to speed. I feel like right now Runner is only to get Lurker and Rav, as it's so shit on its own.

Lastly, focus the queen on this SO aspect, with ovi, heal, pheromones (make it global if you want, or give the queen more stars to throw out.), and move the evo and age progress buff to the ovi itself.

i suggested global pheromones on gitlab and spooky straight up said hell no and closed it. so that ones not happening.

[PinkledWrenis]

To be completely blunt, there are many things that would be simple to change that would greatly balance the game as is, however, no action has been taken. This is an intolerable situation and cannot go on forever. Changes must be made or people will(are) grow(ing) bored of Colonial Marines.

So as to stay on the topic, Invert the team numbers. Make the xenomorph the majority and the marines the minority. As changes are released, this seems to be the most logical conclusion for the changes to xenomorphs.

Something has to be done before CM hits the point in which it cannot recover. (IE, continuous player base loss despite drastic changes.) The phrase "too little, too late" exists for a reason.

[kastion]

low pop xeno is a nightmare. The devs refuse to scale anything. We just had a round where there were 6 xenos counting the queen. Only 1 person joined after the monkeys burst. The rest burrowed. Yet marines have 4 specs, 4 smart gunners, and a couple of SLs. Not to mention everyone is loaded with AP because theres not alot of marines so easy for everyone to get it. I am turning off xeno and just going to stomp as a marine because this shit aint no fun.

[kastion]

To be completely blunt, there are many things that would be simple to change that would greatly balance the game as is, however, no action has been taken. This is an intolerable situation and cannot go on forever. Changes must be made or people will(are) grow(ing) bored of Colonial Marines.

So as to stay on the topic, Invert the team numbers. Make the xenomorph the majority and the marines the minority. As changes are released, this seems to be the most logical conclusion for the changes to xenomorphs.

Something has to be done before CM hits the point in which it cannot recover. (IE, continuous player base loss despite drastic changes.) The phrase "too little, too late" exists for a reason.

you cant invert the numbers. There are marines that refuse to play xeno. You will never get more xeno players than marines.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

low pop xeno is a nightmare. The devs refuse to scale anything. We just had a round where there were 6 xenos counting the queen. Only 1 person joined after the monkeys burst. The rest burrowed. Yet marines have 4 specs, 4 smart gunners, and a couple of SLs. Not to mention everyone is loaded with AP because theres not alot of marines so easy for everyone to get it. I am turning off xeno and just going to stomp as a marine because this shit aint no fun.

A xeno boycott would be interesting to see since it seems the devs are either unwilling or unable to address the current complete and utter shit-tier state of benos

Altho chances of it are happening are 0 lmao, but yeah I've been marine maine for awhile just due to how fucking awful beans are being handled now

But hey, the burrower.

[digitalattack]

I completly agree with what people are saying about xeno's being in a terrible position at the moment, what I honestly think xeno's need is a more thought over upgrade timer for later joining xeno's to make that combat capable quicker, I already have a decent idea of what could be done for that but I also know it would be completely rejected due to it being too much of a xeno buff.

The other thing xeno's lack is a decent long range capability that is not the boiler, and the boilers acid cloud is more for area denial than anything, personally thinking that spitters acid spit should be doing more actual damage and less pain damage as right now damage unless it breaks something is healed up almost instantly or very quickly.

But anyway the upgrade idea I had involved Xeno's having a universal Upgrade tick amount( all xeno's have the same number of upgrade points - points needed for evo to their current rank, this would not effect the evo timer meaning a xeno would still have to wait for that to grow before evolving) but this would have two major effects.

One: xeno's that burst later would be combat ready right after evolving to T1 only having to wait for Evo ticks if they wanted to evolve.
Two: Xeno's would no longer be penalised by evolve to fill much needed T3 slots after lossing them, (e.g Elder spitter evolving to boiler would still keep some of it's upgrade points)

How ever this has no effect really on Early rushs which are part of the current part of a large amount of win's for marines and would also heavily skewer the power balance over towards the xeno side most likely requiring a reduction in larva number and a increase in time required to upgrade to compensate for the increase in xeno who can fight at any one time.

personally think this would solve some of the larva issues with low pop as I believe that players don't want to rejoin xeno's after dying as a young T1 while the Hive is practically on the verge of collapse.

[Swagile]

i suggested this ages ago and nothing ever got done but

give burn damage a lasting effect via conditions just like brute has

if you get enough brute, you get a cracked bone, or if its bad enough, the bone breaks

so why not second and third degree burns? one can be salved, the other requires salve + pain meds and even then your at half capacity, just like cracked and breaking works for brute damage

boom, spitters 100x more useful since you can't just insta heal it, and boilers are infinitely more dangerous now; walking into boiler clouds is now a risk-reward assessment instead of "ill just walk into the cloud to save my buddy and ask a med to slap me a kelo derm"

[misto]

i once suggested on gitlab that sufficient burn damage could cause limbs to melt/burn off in parallel to how brute damage can cut off limbs but it was despised

[Garrison]

But don't you go into paincrit with noticably less burn damage compared to brute?

To contribute though, I think it would be better if a limb got so burnt, the limb would be rendered useless (mimicing a missing limb) and will start necrotizing even with keloderm and antibiotics. You would still regain use of your burnt limb if it is healed enough, but the necrotizing needs to be suppressed or treated with surgery.

Alternatively, being in boiler gas should cause lung damage if your not wearing a gas mask. Your breathing in corrosive acid. How would that not melt your lungs?

[kastion]

welp just had another fun experience, im a mature t3 praetorian. Marine is breaking out of nest has an m43a custom pistol with ap rounds. My neuro misses 3 times, and he unloads an entire clip in about 4 seconds and I die to 1 clip. Ya games totally balanced. When a t3 cant even keep hosts nested its time to removing nesting.

[Garrison]

welp just had another fun experience, im a mature t3 praetorian. Marine is breaking out of nest has an m43a custom pistol with ap rounds. My neuro misses 3 times, and he unloads an entire clip in about 4 seconds and I die to 1 clip. Ya games totally balanced. When a t3 cant even keep hosts nested its time to removing nesting.

It doesn't make sense how that plays out at times. As a marine, I've never had that happen to me. Yet when I play Sentinel/Spitter, I always miss those crucial spits when I desperately need them to hit. (Only exception was guard duty)

[CABAL]

welp just had another fun experience, im a mature t3 praetorian. Marine is breaking out of nest has an m43a custom pistol with ap rounds. My neuro misses 3 times, and he unloads an entire clip in about 4 seconds and I die to 1 clip. Ya games totally balanced. When a t3 cant even keep hosts nested its time to removing nesting.

You just got memed by memegun and RNGesus was not on your side. You just literally stated that RNG fucked you becouse of 3 misses. You could spray acid and this don't have RNG checks. T3's are not supposed to guard hosts anyway. Any other marine without memguns wouldn't hurt you. Flamer? You can literally rest in flames as T3 as elder/ancient. Double shotgun buckshot? Hard to keep two shotguns as nested and wield them fast enough, even then marine has to get PB where you can spray as boiler.

You died to one pistol clip, yet you could tank 1 mag from pulse rifle or shotgun loaded with 9 slugs. Pistols were in that shit position that it was "required" to make them shoot faster than fucking pulse rifle to make them gimmicky for borderline powergames who customise them that way, becouse its allowed and nobody knows how (or don't want to) to balance it to "believable" levels.

Let's just "balance" if you want. Buff standing in flames damage for xenos and Pulse Rifle/Slug damage, but nerf those pistols. Do you think that this will help? Bringing pistol when your main weapon is not flamer, or sniper rifle was, is and will be pointless. Revolver has a bent barrel and it's spread is ridiculous and normal 9mm rounds tickle xenos.

[MattAtlas]

You just got memed by memegun and RNGesus was not on your side. You just literally stated that RNG fucked you becouse of 3 misses. You could spray acid and this don't have RNG checks. T3's are not supposed to guard hosts anyway. Any other marine without memguns wouldn't hurt you. Flamer? You can literally rest in flames as T3 as elder/ancient. Double shotgun buckshot? Hard to keep two shotguns as nested and wield them fast enough, even then marine has to get PB where you can spray as boiler.

You died to one pistol clip, yet you could tank 1 mag from pulse rifle or shotgun loaded with 9 slugs. Pistols were in that shit position that it was "required" to make them shoot faster than fucking pulse rifle to make them gimmicky for borderline powergames who customise them that way, becouse its allowed and nobody knows how (or don't want to) to balance it to "believable" levels.

Let's just "balance" if you want. Buff standing in flames damage for xenos and Pulse Rifle/Slug damage, but nerf those pistols. Do you think that this will help? Bringing pistol when your main weapon is not flamer, or sniper rifle was, is and will be pointless. Revolver has a bent barrel and it's spread is ridiculous and normal 9mm rounds tickle xenos.

Spray acid and you'll kill the host... as it was ice colony and the host was already getting cold damage.

I really do not ee how T3s not guarding hosts even TIES into this as RNG neuro misses are for ALL spitting castes. Had he been a sentinel or spitter he'd have died the same way.

Now, first off, you can't rest in flames as an elder or ancient T3, that's completely wrong as fire still does tick damage. Second off, that's an ELDER OR ANCIENT T3. That's 2 hours of being alive at the LEAST.

You completely missed his point-- what he's saying is that pointblank neuro shouldn't miss, not that marines should be nerfed or whatever bullshit propaganda. At range? Sure. But pointblank is just RNG fucking you over for no reason.

[CABAL]

Spray acid and you'll kill the host... as it was ice colony and the host was already getting cold damage.

I really do not ee how T3s not guarding hosts even TIES into this as RNG neuro misses are for ALL spitting castes. Had he been a sentinel or spitter he'd have died the same way.

Now, first off, you can't rest in flames as an elder or ancient T3, that's completely wrong as fire still does tick damage. Second off, that's an ELDER OR ANCIENT T3. That's 2 hours of being alive at the LEAST.

You completely missed his point-- what he's saying is that pointblank neuro shouldn't miss, not that marines should be nerfed or whatever bullshit propaganda. At range? Sure. But pointblank is just RNG fucking you over for no reason.

I don't see anywhere "pointblank spit". Where is it written? If it is, then my bad.

Maybe you can't rest in flames, but as mature T3 you can stand in flames for quite a long time. Tested when I tried to break out, Hivelord was just standing in flames next to me, standing and disarming. It took 3-4 before I dropped on the floor and then he had a time to nest me, go on weeds, roll and rest.

My previous post was worded in the way that didn't reflect what I was intended to say. Pistols that shoot faster than Pulse Rifle and their bullets do more damage are stupid in concept.

[MattAtlas]

I don't see anywhere "pointblank spit". Where is it written? If it is, then my bad.

Maybe you can't rest in flames, but as mature T3 you can stand in flames for quite a long time. Tested when I tried to break out, Hivelord was just standing in flames next to me, standing and disarming. It took 3-4 before I dropped on the floor and then he had a time to nest me, go on weeds, roll and rest.

My previous post was worded in the way that didn't reflect what I was intended to say. Pistols that shoot faster than Pulse Rifle and their bullets do more damage are stupid in concept.

If you're trying to guard a host then you're neuroing him from point blank.

Probably because flames aren't supposed to be mini pointblank buckshot? They're area denial, something that forces xenos to fall back and heal, or something you exploit to catch resisting xenos.

[Gnorse]

that situation was completely RNG. I've had praes/spitters and even sentinels stunlock me by spitting 10 times in a row and not missing any shots. I agree that xenos need a buff, but this ain't it chief.

[CABAL]

If you're trying to guard a host then you're neuroing him from point blank.

Probably because flames aren't supposed to be mini pointblank buckshot? They're area denial, something that forces xenos to fall back and heal, or something you exploit to catch resisting xenos.

Well, host are usually in secure nests so you have one title for resin doors between you and the marine. Spits are not designed to be guaranteed stun I guess? If that was the case then any xeno that can spit, would spit instead of tackle. What is the point of tackling? Maybe this is why point-blank spits miss? And I guess they are diffrent kind of projectile. You can spit over disposals, yet bullets are stopped.

Sure, but I think that it don't work this way. I learned today too much that flames are mostly just "drag marine here" signs (not only for Queen, or Ravager). There is no penalty for stepping on fire for xenos besides health loss and emitting light. Only T1's besides ancients fear fire. Maybe it's balanced like spits, I don't know. High-Risk for whole squad for medium reward.

[MattAtlas]

Well, host are usually in secure nests so you have one title for resin doors between you and the marine. Spits are not designed to be guaranteed stun I guess? If that was the case then any xeno that can spit, would spit instead of tackle. What is the point of tackling? Maybe this is why point-blank spits miss? And I guess they are diffrent kind of projectile. You can spit over disposals, yet bullets are stopped.

Sure, but I think that it don't work this way. I learned today too much that flames are mostly just "drag marine here" signs (not only for Queen, or Ravager). There is no penalty for stepping on fire for xenos besides health loss and emitting light. Only T1's besides ancients fear fire. Maybe it's balanced like spits, I don't know. High-Risk for whole squad for medium reward.

theres already no point in tackling since tackles got nerfed into irrelevancy

one tile of distance between you and a host doesn't matter when you RNG miss 3 times

you can't spit over disposals because spits are also projectiles and both are blocked

there is penalty for stepping in fire for xenos... it's called damage and being lit on fire, you can lose half your health as a crusher by walking into fire since the fire stacks are the exact same as the ones you get when you get hit by a flamer

[CABAL]

theres already no point in tackling since tackles got nerfed into irrelevancy

one tile of distance between you and a host doesn't matter when you RNG miss 3 times

you can't spit over disposals because spits are also projectiles and both are blocked

there is penalty for stepping in fire for xenos... it's called damage and being lit on fire, you can lose half your health as a crusher by walking into fire since the fire stacks are the exact same as the ones you get when you get hit by a flamer

It's still one title, so it's not PB and even USCM weapons can miss.

I'm pretty sure acid spits could travel trough disposals. I remember a round where spitter was camping near maintenance in "custodial closet room", or something like that. He was the last alien and he menaged to kill a lot of marines there becouse he could neuro them without risk of being shoot. Marines coming one at the time was a great factor too, but point is that it was, or still is diffrent projectile. Acid/neuro could, or still can also travel trough 3 layers of barricades and you don't have to stand next to first layer to do it.

Yeah, I know that fire deals damage, but there have to be 1 title hallway to deny that area by one flamer. Going trough one title of flames won't hurt you much. Look how xeno players behave around Pyro spec and marines with flamers. Most of them don't care that there is a fire, go, get burned, slash/stun, drag marine and escape.

Or it's just my experience.