What Xenos Need

CABAL · Post by **CABAL** » 22 Oct 2018, 10:22

I guess only cloaked lurker can hide outside weeds and drone/queen/warrior can hide only on weeds with normal gamma. Lighting looks cool, more "realistic", but xenos need passive cloak in darkness.

I was talking about 3x3 square of sight without light, like on other servers, but this is too much. I would want that kind of light implemented only during HvH, or after 14:30/15:00 on normal rounds, becouse if the fight continues planetside by this time, then xenos are just delaying and they are only few without chance to win, or many ancients too scared to fight, so a small buff for exhausted marines then would be nice.

Audi_Gzz · Post by **Audi_Gzz** » 22 Oct 2018, 11:40

Xenos definitley need a buff tbh they're squishy compared to marines right now. Its either more health, or something else because alot of caste aren't worth playing. It doesn't even make killing xenos fun either when I go as a marine. I remember when soloing a xeno would be the best thing you can do now its barely an achievement.

CABAL · Post by **CABAL** » 22 Oct 2018, 14:02

Audi wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 11:40
Xenos definitley need a buff tbh they're squishy compared to marines right now. Its either more health, or something else because alot of caste aren't worth playing. It doesn't even make killing xenos fun either when I go as a marine. I remember when soloing a xeno would be the best thing you can do now its barely an achievement.

Tell that to Elder Empress, or Ancient Ravager, that they are squishy compared to marines. Give me fast healing on rest, pheromones from SL, no bleeding, no IB, no slowdown, no fractures and no pain and then I can die from +100 damage.

I see something like that: Buff xenos to have 3x as much HP as they have right now, but they can only heal near Ovi'ed Queen. Shift in gameplay would be nice. Right now it's a viable tactic to just run in circles for marines to waste ammo and every bullet that hit xeno, but didn't kill directly, or indirectly, is wasted by lying on black shit that drones spawn. In new "feature", every bullet would count something, give xenos fracture and bleeding also and then I won't feel that only thing I can reliably accomplish is to send xeno for a half-minute nap.

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 22 Oct 2018, 14:10

CABAL wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 14:02
Tell that to Elder Empress, or Ancient Ravager, that they are squishy compared to marines. Give me fast healing on rest, pheromones from SL, no bleeding, no IB, no slowdown, no fractures and no pain and then I can die from +100 damage.

I see something like that: Buff xenos to have 3x as much HP as they have right now, but they can only heal near Ovi'ed Queen. Shift in gameplay would be nice. Right now it's a viable tactic to just run in circles for marines to waste ammo and every bullet that hit xeno, but didn't kill directly, or indirectly, is wasted by lying on black shit that drones spawn. In new "feature", every bullet would count something, give xenos fracture and bleeding also and then I won't feel that only thing I can reliably accomplish is to send xeno for a half-minute nap.

You are comparing t3 and the absolute strongest xeno in the game to marines and still have to say elder and ancient which for the former takes 2 hours and the later almost never happens at all. Either way if you are gonna cherry pick then B18 is comparably tanky to any xeno even elder t3 so your arguement sucks.

CABAL · Post by **CABAL** » 22 Oct 2018, 15:19

kastion wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 14:10
You are comparing t3 and the absolute strongest xeno in the game to marines and still have to say elder and ancient which for the former takes 2 hours and the later almost never happens at all. Either way if you are gonna cherry pick then B18 is comparably tanky to any xeno even elder t3 so your arguement sucks.

He said "Xenos", he didn't said "T1's", he didn't said "T2's", he didn't said "T1's and T3's", he didn't said "T2's and T3's, he didn't said "T1's and T2's", he didn't said "T3's", in other words he said "T1's, T2's and T3's".
Saying "T1's are too squishy" I would agree, but they can heal pretty fast. Marines can't, so it appears to be balanced.

B18 is one, Queen is one, but if she dies, any drone can evolve after few minutes. T3's are based on Pop. Xeno can evolve to T3, I didn't saw any marine who lived long enough to reach "ticks" to evolve into B18 spec, emerge from PFC husk into greater body.
Maybe B18 is tanky, but xeno can't break his leg, break both legs, break his foot, break both foots, break his hand, break both hands, break his groin, break his chest, break his head, bleed, internal bleed, lose his foot, lose both foots, lose his leg, lose both legs, lose his hand, lose both hands, lose his arm, lose both arms, be combat hugged and slashed to death, lose his head and die.

Any cherries left to pick?

GoliathTheDespoiler · Post by **GoliathTheDespoiler** » 22 Oct 2018, 17:55

CABAL wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 15:19
He said "Xenos", he didn't said "T1's", he didn't said "T2's", he didn't said "T1's and T3's", he didn't said "T2's and T3's, he didn't said "T1's and T2's", he didn't said "T3's", in other words he said "T1's, T2's and T3's".
Saying "T1's are too squishy" I would agree, but they can heal pretty fast. Marines can't, so it appears to be balanced.

B18 is one, Queen is one, but if she dies, any drone can evolve after few minutes. T3's are based on Pop. Xeno can evolve to T3, I didn't saw any marine who lived long enough to reach "ticks" to evolve into B18 spec, emerge from PFC husk into greater body.
Maybe B18 is tanky, but xeno can't break his leg, break both legs, break his foot, break both foots, break his hand, break both hands, break his groin, break his chest, break his head, bleed, internal bleed, lose his foot, lose both foots, lose his leg, lose both legs, lose his hand, lose both hands, lose his arm, lose both arms, be combat hugged and slashed to death, lose his head and die.

Any cherries left to pick?

Okay, let me break it down for you so you can understand:

Most xenos are squishy. Only exceptions to this are ancient T2s and T3s. Everything else dies in 2 to 3 hits from a shotgun.

Kesserline · Post by **Kesserline** » 22 Oct 2018, 18:42

Marines are more resilient then xenos in terms of survival. A marine can survive longer than a xenos to damage (due to heals/armor/revival through defibs).

THOUGH

Xenos remain at their 100% combat efficiency until they finally crit. Compared to a marine that will lose totally his combat efficiency at 100 damage cumulated, and will lose roughly 50% of it as soon as he cumulates around 40% damage.

Xenos are squishy, but still deadly. They can fuck any riflemen, but will fear any shotgunner (with buckshot) because of the high risk/high reward/high damage of such tactics.

Simo94 · Post by **Simo94** » 22 Oct 2018, 19:52

marines are way tankier than xenos. also ppl underestimate how stronk defibs are with the no dragging update.

TheMaskedMan2 · Post by **TheMaskedMan2** » 22 Oct 2018, 21:52

Defibs are extremely reliable at the moment, removal of husking, removal of body dragging. (I'm not saying bring body dragging back.)

But pretty much any Marine is guaranteed to get defibbed if Marines aren't entirely bald. I'd argue the timer should be shorter.

I know nobody wants to hear that but the reality was that body dragging balanced defibs.

Ketrai · Post by **Ketrai** » 23 Oct 2018, 01:29

TheMaskedMan2 wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 21:52
Defibs are extremely reliable at the moment, removal of husking, removal of body dragging. (I'm not saying bring body dragging back.)

But pretty much any Marine is guaranteed to get defibbed if Marines aren't entirely bald. I'd argue the timer should be shorter.

I know nobody wants to hear that but the reality was that body dragging balanced defibs.

I don't mind marines being alive longer, more fun not to be dead. Just has to be compensated for in some way that isn't stupid.

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 23 Oct 2018, 01:42

TheMaskedMan2 wrote: ↑
22 Oct 2018, 21:52
Defibs are extremely reliable at the moment, removal of husking, removal of body dragging. (I'm not saying bring body dragging back.)

But pretty much any Marine is guaranteed to get defibbed if Marines aren't entirely bald. I'd argue the timer should be shorter.

I know nobody wants to hear that but the reality was that body dragging balanced defibs.

I know the staff wouldn't go for it and marine mains would throw the biggest hissy fit you have ever seen, but I have an idea to balance defibbing. Remove all causes of brain damage from the game. Now you get like 5% brain damage for every minute you are dead until you are revived. Brain damage is uncurable period never gonna happen. At like 35% brain damage you start suffering effects like losing control of your motor functions so you could get slow, drop your gun, stuff like that. When it gets sever like 60%+ you start shooting the the wrong direction and crazy stuff like that.

This would make it a punishment to die instead of just being like meh whatever lets unga someone will grab my dead body. It also makes grabbing wounded and getting the up more important instead of just defibbing once every 5 minutes to keep them from perma dying.

CABAL · Post by **CABAL** » 23 Oct 2018, 03:28

Gimme some role on marine side after death to fill and you can even take my defibs. Cyborgs/drones/robots and such.

Madventurer · Post by **Madventurer** » 23 Oct 2018, 03:50

Methinks overall buffs to xeno health would be called for. Not major buffs, just enough to make them survive a bullet or two more, especially for certain castes...

The difference between marines is that they can take more damage from xenos than they can deal to them, but the flipside is that xenos have much faster healing.
Effectively, this means that marines have a large collective health pool that regenerates slowly due to medical work and latejoins, while xenos have a small collective healthpool that regenerates far faster and does so on the field.
I believe that the current health balance may be a bit off in favor of the marines from the devs' intentions.

To point out specific castes for health buffs and others:

Crushers could use a bit of buff more than the others IMO. They're a bit lackluster compared to other T3s, as their only offensive capabilities are charging and stomping. The former requires tight corridors and somewhat oblivious/desperate marines to work properly, while the latter requires a stun first, which is not all that easy to do solo and would make the Crusher the only frontlining T3 that relies on other xenos to be able to cause decent damage. The harm damage and stun chance is not even worth mentioning. I am not saying it should be a massive buff to make crushers into unkillable stomping machines, but especially young crushers go down very, very fast. Either that, or give them slightly elevated damage/stun chance. Their best weapon in 1v1 is their acid blood, as they can't maneuver properly against anyone halfway competent in even semi-open area. And IMO, if there's a caste that would be bad in 1v1, it would be one of the drone line evolves. And, let's mention that Defenders have their tail sweep, which is area-guaranteed stun to anyone next to the defender, already making defenders superior on the offense.

Runners are squishy, and they should stay that way, but overall they're very weak. What to do with them is a discussion on its own, but a tiny health buff would help especially young ones quite a bit. One more shot from a Pulse Rifle or SMG could make all the difference in making them a bit more viable, it's not like young runners are terrifying in the first place.

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 23 Oct 2018, 03:53

I would settle for crushers getting an acceleration increase. Every time I charge in I know if I stop it will take forever to run away in which marines can just walk up and point blank me 3 times and im dead. Think about this, what other xeno do marines sidestep then charge after and try to surround it? Every other xeno will mess you up if you just try to get in its way. Crusher is pathetic.

Madventurer · Post by **Madventurer** » 23 Oct 2018, 04:00

kastion wrote: ↑
23 Oct 2018, 03:53
I would settle for crushers getting an acceleration increase. Every time I charge in I know if I stop it will take forever to run away in which marines can just walk up and point blank me 3 times and im dead. Think about this, what other xeno do marines sidestep then charge after and try to surround it? Every other xeno will mess you up if you just try to get in its way. Crusher is pathetic.

I agree, at the moment Crusher is basically a glorified Defender without offensive powers that happens to be able to crush walls open for utility. Not really worthy of the T3 status it's supposed to be.

AverageSpitter · Post by **AverageSpitter** » 23 Oct 2018, 08:16

Damn, I just returned and it really pains me to see such a great lose for us the xenomorph scum. Godspeed, Symb.

Also yeah, Returning tackle to what it was wouldn't really harm, Xenos are already pretty damn nerfed, no need to keep us down like that.

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 23 Oct 2018, 08:30

looks like they fixed the lighting so we wont be easily seen, crisis averted.

Gnorse · Post by **Gnorse** » 23 Oct 2018, 09:39

as long as xenos can't tank a full shotgun's worth of buckshot, I see no problem in buffing them.
The crusher should have his armor buffed, not his HP. that's a bad way to go about things

AverageSpitter · Post by **AverageSpitter** » 23 Oct 2018, 11:14

Gnorse wrote: ↑
23 Oct 2018, 09:39
as long as xenos can't tank a full shotgun's worth of buckshot, I see no problem in buffing them.
The crusher should have his armor buffed, not his HP. that's a bad way to go about things

Crusher's HP is already pretty fucking low tho

They just feel a lot tankier because of the armor they have, but you light them on fire and without queen heal they fall in 4-5 seconds no joke

Madventurer · Post by **Madventurer** » 25 Oct 2018, 04:52

It also contributes to the fact that PB buckshot is absolutely devastating on a Crusher, despite them supposedly being the tankiest caste. Sure, PB buckshot wrecks anything, but Crushers often don't have the mobility to avoid the second blast...

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 25 Oct 2018, 04:59

yesterday I was an elder runner and I got hit by a smartgun (not bullet, literally the smartgun) and it took 40% of my health. That's when I realized marines even melee harder than xenos. Things that make you go hmmm.

CABAL · Post by **CABAL** » 25 Oct 2018, 05:10

kastion wrote: ↑
25 Oct 2018, 04:59
yesterday I was an elder runner and I got hit by a smartgun (not bullet, literally the smartgun) and it took 40% of my health. That's when I realized marines even melee harder than xenos. Things that make you go hmmm.

That seems to be a bug. Machete won't deal that much damage to Elder runner, even fire axe won't do that. Maybe it was delusion? Are you sure it wasn't PB (Even PB damage from smartgun is probably not enough to take 40% of elder runner HP)?
It does not make sense that smartgun in melee does more damage than shotgun with bayonet. It was some kind of event? I guess synth could achieve something like that.

kastion · Post by **kastion** » 25 Oct 2018, 05:19

CABAL wrote: ↑
25 Oct 2018, 05:10
That seems to be a bug. Machete won't deal that much damage to Elder runner, even fire axe won't do that. Maybe it was delusion? Are you sure it wasn't PB (Even PB damage from smartgun is probably not enough to take 40% of elder runner HP)?
It does not make sense that smartgun in melee does more damage than shotgun with bayonet. It was some kind of event? I guess synth could achieve something like that.

couldn't have been point blank cause the smartgun was up and you can only fire it when wielded with both hands. No event or synth either, synths aren't allowed to use firearms.

lurkermain · Post by **lurkermain** » 25 Oct 2018, 06:07

kastion wrote: ↑
25 Oct 2018, 04:59
yesterday I was an elder runner and I got hit by a smartgun (not bullet, literally the smartgun) and it took 40% of my health. That's when I realized marines even melee harder than xenos. Things that make you go hmmm.

Yeah, it's kinda funny that most xenos have to go into melee and deliver around 10 slashes to end someone, but if your target PBs you once with a shotgun your round is over.
Marines are literally better in melee.

Swagile · Post by **Swagile** » 25 Oct 2018, 08:11

dying instantly to marines is only so frusterating because you have to spend 30 mins (if starter larvae) or up to 40 + mins (all other larvae) if your xeno to get to a proper caste and maturity to do decent damage to a marine that isn't a tickle, and then you die instantly to PB buckshot in a 1 v 1 to 2 v 1 fight

that shouldn't be happening AT ALL unless your lucky as a marine, but if we're going to allow it, we need to start buffing T1's and T2's a LOT more, or make them mature a lot faster

if not then whats the point in playing xeno? might as well set it to OFF for all except Queen (since Queen is still fun despite her nerfs)

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