What Xenos Need

[CABAL]

couldn't have been point blank cause the smartgun was up and you can only fire it when wielded with both hands. No event or synth either, synths aren't allowed to use firearms.

Standard USCM synths can't use weapons, but there are synths that can. I don't know, it's a question for devs if smartgun punch can potentialy take 40% of Elder Runner health. Awaiting response.

Yeah, it's kinda funny that most xenos have to go into melee and deliver around 10 slashes to end someone, but if your target PBs you once with a shotgun your round is over.
Marines are literally better in melee.

PB is not melee, it's literally shooting your gun next to the enemy.
Buckshot/Shotguns literally can't be balanced to please everyone. Since Spooky don't want any new weapons for PFC's, then I'm sure he also don't want to remove shotgun.
Take the stun effect from buckshot and nobody will use it. Take the damage from PB buckshot and maybe few will still use it. Take the "armor does not matter in PB range" and it will be like with nerfing damage, or current state of slugs that are not reliable becouse of scatter that sometimes shoots at diffrent direction than you are aiming and their stun lasts like one tick, barely enough to cock your shotgun.

The only idea I've got for that is new mechanic for xenos. Instead of just slashing, which gives marines full control over their actions besides slower speed, xenos should start every ecounter with grab. Something like in "Alien: Infestation" when xeno is close, it jumps on marine and that marine tries to defend himself via cool animation. Xeno and marine both struggle to kill eachother. RNG with addition of taping on "resist" and move keys (wsad) would decide on results of such struggle.
Such move would be activated from title, or two away, unlike homing warrior missle.

Marine minor would result in xeno being stun for one tick (literally nothing, just tap on the ground and stand up in milisecond) and maybe a knockback title, or two and marine unwielding his weapon.
Marine major would mean automatic PB (Diffrent effects depending on weapon and ammo. Pulse rifle and such slow down xeno, buckshot stuns and slug do both but overall smaller) and knockback for one title.
Xeno minor would result in small stun for marine.
Xeno major would result in automatic more powerful slash (Tail attack) as well as good stun for marine (it should be shorter than the time to vore if marine was 100% healthy).
Draw would result in xeno being knockback for one title and marine unwelding weapon.

Xenos as handicapped skillful being should have it easier to win such struggle with RNGesus on their side. This way equally skilled marine has a fair chance to "beat" xeno (draw, or his "win"), while xeno is still superiour, but in less danger from single marine to die from PB. Maybe make it automatic? Xeno can "mark" marine for that attack and when he will be in range, then it would automatically launch?
This also don't take all control from marine unlike warriors lounge. And it's cooler.

#MakeCQCSkillThatMattersVsXenos

[Simo94]

ppl keep mentioning that xenos can easily heal back on weeds, but they forget that once dead, they cant comeback to life, defibbs are what counter balances weeds, especially with the no husking and no dragging update.

most xenos dont even get a chance to heal back up nowadays with the sudden bursts of dmg from explosions and buckshot, the latter really needs a counter as it is atm viable against all castes, xenos need more ranged answers to it, such as old Praetorian's acid spit.

[CABAL]

ppl keep mentioning that xenos can easily heal back on weeds, but they forget that once dead, they cant comeback to life, defibbs are what counter balances weeds, especially with the no husking and no dragging update.

most xenos dont even get a chance to heal back up nowadays with the sudden bursts of dmg from explosions and buckshot, the latter really needs a counter as it is atm viable against all castes, xenos need more ranged answers to it, such as old Praetorian's acid spit.

Isn't that the point? To kill xeno you can't let it escape to heal on weeds and to kill marine you can't let his squad to take his body back?

Xenos can comeback to life, they have to wait for new larvae and they can play again. Then wait for maturity/elderly and here we go, back at the same point. Marines besides defibs can't return. If xenos menage to defend their "killing ground" then it's over. It discourage xenos from constant hit and run tactics where every slash agains marine counts and every bullet on xeno didn't. Xenos can hit and run whole day and it is giving them more strenght.

By not looking at gameplay for one player, but for whole side: One undefibbed means one less for USCM and potentially one new for xenos (Even I have "Xeno after being undefibable" "ON") when there is burrowed larvae available. And if it is someone important, then... It sucks, wait for new to join the round and let dchat to die from boredom.
One dead xeno means one combat capable xeno "put in stasis", but every xeno can be replaced by evolution and "maturity".

Hive loses time and USCM loses fighters.

I wouldn't even care for defibb if there were something to fill and aid USCM:
Clones.
Cyborgs.
Archaic "barebones" synths.
Combat drones.
"Sentient Sentries".

"Classic" SS13 servers allow you to return to the game on both sides, why not here? Lore is not the limit at this point.

[AverageSpitter]

ppl keep mentioning that xenos can easily heal back on weeds, but they forget that once dead, they cant comeback to life, defibbs are what counter balances weeds, especially with the no husking and no dragging update.

most xenos dont even get a chance to heal back up nowadays with the sudden bursts of dmg from explosions and buckshot, the latter really needs a counter as it is atm viable against all castes, xenos need more ranged answers to it, such as old Praetorian's acid spit.

PLEASE bring old prae back. Or at least it's spit range.

[Simo94]

Isn't that the point? To kill xeno you can't let it escape to heal on weeds and to kill marine you can't let his squad to take his body back?

Xenos can comeback to life, they have to wait for new larvae and they can play again. Then wait for maturity/elderly and here we go, back at the same point. Marines besides defibs can't return. If xenos menage to defend their "killing ground" then it's over. It discourage xenos from constant hit and run tactics where every slash agains marine counts and every bullet on xeno didn't. Xenos can hit and run whole day and it is giving them more strenght.

By not looking at gameplay for one player, but for whole side: One undefibbed means one less for USCM and potentially one new for xenos (Even I have "Xeno after being undefibable" "ON") when there is burrowed larvae available. And if it is someone important, then... It sucks, wait for new to join the round and let dchat to die from boredom.
One dead xeno means one combat capable xeno "put in stasis", but every xeno can be replaced by evolution and "maturity".

Hive loses time and USCM loses fighters.

I wouldn't even care for defibb if there were something to fill and aid USCM:
Clones.
Cyborgs.
Archaic "barebones" synths.
Combat drones.
"Sentient Sentries".

"Classic" SS13 servers allow you to return to the game on both sides, why not here? Lore is not the limit at this point.

yeah sure, make it to mature T3 in an hour or more then when u die u can grab a larva right away and make it to mature T3 again in another 1,5 hours, no problem there.

im not saying defibbs or healing on weeds is a problem, im fine with both, im just pointing out that ''hurr durr but benos heal on weeds!'' should be toned down a bit.

also there are no sides in classic SS13, just traitors hidden within the crew, the fun comes from the paranoia of not knowing who is who, unlike CM.

[Swagile]

> talks about xenos being able to come back via larvae
> forgets to talk about the entire 40 + mins you have to wait to become marginally useful, especially since most of the time xenos either wreck, or they get wrecked, and now your a useless T1 or MAYBE Young T2 facing off against an entire squad

hello do you even play the game, CABAL?

PB Buck is OP as fuck and was balanced by needing Gyro to be useful, since xenos can anticipate dodging a marine who has to weld a shotgun, but with that gone + the nerf to Tackle, well..

its shitty to be a xeno frontliner, is the TL;DR

[Gnorse]

or you coule just not get PB'd by buckshot.
Let's not rebalance an entire weapon around a select few who can use it.

[Swagile]

or you coule just not get PB'd by buckshot.
Let's not rebalance an entire weapon around a select few who can use it.

use the same excuse with tackle then

"or you could just not get tackled"

but tackle was nerfed and PB buckshot was buffed

hello???

[CABAL]

> talks about xenos being able to come back via larvae
> forgets to talk about the entire 40 + mins you have to wait to become marginally useful, especially since most of the time xenos either wreck, or they get wrecked, and now your a useless T1 or MAYBE Young T2 facing off against an entire squad

hello do you even play the game, CABAL?

PB Buck is OP as fuck and was balanced by needing Gyro to be useful, since xenos can anticipate dodging a marine who has to weld a shotgun, but with that gone + the nerf to Tackle, well..

its shitty to be a xeno frontliner, is the TL;DR

But this is comeback, despite how shitty and long it is, you can return to be the exact same xeno you was. You can came back on the xeno side, you can still be xeno, wait an hour and you can still be xeno, EXACT SAME XENO.


Now tell me how long I have to wait to get new marine? For human larvae to grow inside tallhost woman, a man has to impregnate her. Then 9 months (shorthened to 9 hours in game) for larvae to burst. If you are lucky then you can have twins, or triples. Entire 216 in game hours to mature as human to become marginally useful, especially since most of the time marines either wreck, or they get wrecked, and you are now useless infant, or MAYBE toddler facing off against an entire hive.

Timer is even unessential if you really want to help the hive, not just kill marines. Drone can build shit from the same second he exist, he can transport eggs etc.
What an undefibable marine can do to support USCM? Praise for Freelancer/PMC ERT, becouse every other kind has to kill marines?
Not my fault that you are inpatient to the point of considering 40+ minutes as "never". Even during 2 and a half of hour round, 40 minutes, or one hour are not "forever". Half of the hive is just AFK for first 30 minutes of gameplay, becouse they are not interested in helping hive, shit is about getting boner from killing marines. How much "fun" are you getting, or losing for being killed after 30 minutes AFK marathon of YT/anything? How much "fun" marines are gaining/losing for being killed after 30 minutes of arming, waiting in lines and hearing another boring briefing?
Not my fault that the xeno gameplay is designed around xenos getting stronger with time. Not my fault that overall gameplay is designed around "many marines/few xenos". Not my fault nobody want's to change the basics that are broken, we are trying to fix minor, internal issues while our core is faulty.

Change it that xenos respawn ASAP and drop "mature" system for one universal "Faceless" xeno. Balance it between mature and elder, give xenos like 200 larvaes and make xenos more fragile, but more deadly. It was proposed countless times, but it won't change. It's really a miracle that body dragging was changed, where staff was literally saying: "Man up and deal with it". I still can't belive it happened.

Try to "balance" and "fix" this exhausted "engine" of a game by slaping jury-rigged updates that just push power from one side to another, or replace worn-out "part" with new one.

[Simo94]

But this is comeback, despite how shitty and long it is, you can return to be the exact same xeno you was. You can came back on the xeno side, you can still be xeno, wait an hour and you can still be xeno, EXACT SAME XENO.


Now tell me how long I have to wait to get new marine? For human larvae to grow inside tallhost woman, a man has to impregnate her. Then 9 months (shorthened to 9 hours in game) for larvae to burst. If you are lucky then you can have twins, or triples. Entire 216 in game hours to mature as human to become marginally useful, especially since most of the time marines either wreck, or they get wrecked, and you are now useless infant, or MAYBE toddler facing off against an entire hive.

Timer is even unessential if you really want to help the hive, not just kill marines. Drone can build shit from the same second he exist, he can transport eggs etc.
What an undefibable marine can do to support USCM? Praise for Freelancer/PMC ERT, becouse every other kind has to kill marines?
Not my fault that you are inpatient to the point of considering 40+ minutes as "never". Even during 2 and a half of hour round, 40 minutes, or one hour are not "forever". Half of the hive is just AFK for first 30 minutes of gameplay, becouse they are not interested in helping hive, shit is about getting boner from killing marines. How much "fun" are you getting, or losing for being killed after 30 minutes AFK marathon of YT/anything? How much "fun" marines are gaining/losing forbeing killed after 30 minutes of rearming, waiting in lines and hearing another boring briefing?
Not my fault that the xeno gameplay is designed around xenos getting stronger with time. Not my fault that overall gameplay is designed around "many marines/few xenos". Not my fault nobody want's to change the basics that are broken, we are trying to fix minor, internal issues while our core is faulty.

Change it that xenos respawn ASAP and drop "mature" system for one universal "Faceless" xeno. Balance it between mature and elder, give xenos like 200 larvaes and make xenos more fragile, but more deadly. It was proposed countless times, but it won't change. It's really a miracle that body dragging was changed, where staff was literally saying: "Man up and deal with it". I still can't belive it happened.

Try to "balance" and "fix" this exhausted "engine" of a game by slaping jury-rigged updates that just push power from one side to another, or replace worn-out "part" with new one.

just what the fuck m8, have u ever heard of no larva available? or no evolution ticks cuz queen isnt in ovi mode? or T2/T3 slots being blocked? or the atrocious time u have to wait to be relevant?

and when u get defibbed and healed u are the exact same marine u was.

[Reuben Owen]

or you coule just not get PB'd by buckshot.
Let's not rebalance an entire weapon around a select few who can use it.

problem is since most xenos need to be pb distance to do anything even robust ones can get pb'd
its not like preventetive robust xeno tactics will ever not put you within pb distance (you can try and succeed most of the time, but when you dont =/= death), you have no choice if you want to damage a marine (and you know that if a marine shoots at the right time they can even bop you midpounce too) and relying on tackle in a 1v1 outside of the first surprise hit will probably kill you

not saying the pb needs nerf or anything im just puttin more opinion out there

[CABAL]

just what the fuck m8, have u ever heard of no larva available? or no evolution ticks cuz queen isnt in ovi mode? or T2/T3 slots being blocked? or the atrocious time u have to wait to be relevant?

and when u get defibbed and healed u are the exact same marine u was.

I'm saying undefibable marine. As I said before, you can take defibs as long as there is something to do after death. Yes, you can be defibed, you have a chance, 5 minutes for a medic to come.

But defib is a "lucky" scenario. Xeno equivalent of Marine's defib is simply escaping to safety and resting after receiving +50% damage. Xeno has to be lucky to escape buckshot stuns, grenade stuns, slugs stuns etc. Marine has to be lucky enough for his squad to come.

Change that, I won't care if it will bring balance with taking easy xeno healing away. Yes, I heard that, even quote states that I know that. I will even like that change, becouse there is too much marines who don't care if they will die. Only in SS13 I can sort of experience "fear of death", becouse death is punishment of losing everything in game, boredom and that time you spent before first drop becames irrelevant. What does it mean when marine "sacrifaced" himself when he can be revived? Nothing. He choosed to get minor inconvenience, nothing really was sacrifaced.

Whatever will be changed, it will just shift power to the one side, never reaching resemblance of balance.

[Reuben Owen]

Now tell me how long I have to wait to get new marine? For human larvae to grow inside tallhost woman, a man has to impregnate her. Then 9 months (shorthened to 9 hours in game) for larvae to burst. If you are lucky then you can have twins, or triples. Entire 216 in game hours to mature as human to become marginally useful, especially since most of the time marines either wreck, or they get wrecked, and you are now useless infant, or MAYBE toddler facing off against an entire hive.

...w-what?

[CABAL]

...w-what?

Joke to lower amount of "bad" feelings. It's all "IC" negativity in terms of game. No "OOC" offense.

[Reuben Owen]

Whatever will be changed, it will just shift power to the one side, never reaching resemblance of balance.

we're not supposed to have a 50/50, if we're not supposed to have balance, that means one side should (?) feel like they're underpowered/overpowered

[CABAL]

we're not supposed to have a 50/50, if we're not supposed to have balance, that means one side should (?) feel like they're underpowered/overpowered

That may change and "resemblance of balance" still applies to "75%/25%". Skinny guy vs Buffed up can be simplified to "75%/25%", but buffed up vs crippled on wheelchair with katana is not equivalent of "75%/25%". Both sides want to have fun, right? Or am I wrong and Marines are for masochists and xenos for Sadists?

[Simo94]

That may change and "resemblance of balance" still applies to "75%/25%". Skinny guy vs Buffed up can be simplified to "75%/25%", but buffed up vs crippled on wheelchair with katana is not equivalent of "75%/25%". Both sides want to have fun, right? Or am I wrong and Marines are for masochists and xenos for Sadists?

u do know marines are the ones who get the 75% atm right?

[CABAL]

u do know marines are the ones who get the 75% atm right?

maybe, but do U tink Ama not on subject U brought? m8 cuz I'm with it g8! if either one of the side becomes "crippled on wheelchair" it's bad. u mad bro? my last few post here are not about nerfing xenos, or buffing marines m8. ama tinking that that it would be g8 for both sides to have fun, bro, ama one of the fighters for xeno nicknames. right now ama in this spot cuz I don't like xeno healing system and I tink it's bad, fam.

it's g8 4 U and us and me to discuss things, it's my opinion, I see it this way and nothing will change for the better. nothing m8 besides stats and abilites for xenos and stats for marine's weapons.

[Swagile]

CABAL, are you perhaps BR?

[kastion]

they said they want 50/50 not old 75/25 xeno over marine btw.

As far as pointblank "git gud and dodge it" I consider myself pretty robust with just about every caste. Yesterday I was an elite runner, got pb'd and died instantly. I came back got to mature runner, got pb'd and crit then killed instantly. Came back a third time got to mature runner and killed the b18 and the pyro. PB can kill anyone, its just pure luck 90% of the time. Ya theres a few marines that are actually good but most just use an op weapon.

Imagine if punch (the xeno equivalent to a PB) stunned you for 2 seconds and did either 90% of your health or instantly crit a marine. Yall would be salting the server so hard it would crash.

if you want to keep op pointblank buckshot then make acid blood actually do something. When the marine derps an alien ontop of him it should melt the marine and kill his ass. Then it would be balanced.

[Garrison]

if you want to keep op pointblank buckshot then make acid blood actually do something. When the marine derps an alien ontop of him it should melt the marine and kill his ass. Then it would be balanced.

Make it so acid splatter is far less dangerous when using melee attacks as marines. And I'd say this would be a decent compromise.

Edit: what's the verdict on assault rifles and smgs tho? Shotguns are loved because they have such high killing potential compared to the former. Why use a gun that has bad accuracy or damage per bullet when a shotgun is more likely going to keep that Xeno from pouncing on you again, forever?

[CABAL]

CABAL, are you perhaps BR?

Nope, it was another "half-joke" and mockery, as you can judge by my previous posts, I'm trying my best to express what is on my PL mind by language I learned from playing fallout and other classic games. I consider my posts as "free" english lessons for myself used in pratice, becouse I severly lack in that "department" (This is why I use a lot of apostrophes, it's becouse I'm not sure if that word fits) of expressing what I want. Reading and listening english is easy for me.

What I writed there is basically true.
Quick recap of my posts:
- I don't like the way xenos heal (too easy, everywhere, just needs one title of weeds).
- I don't like that damage dealt to xenos doesn't affect anything besides their HP
- I'm not a fan of defibs, but they are the only way to play again on USCM side. This is why I charged thread about body dragging like crusher charges at FOB.
- I want some "feature" that would allow me and other dead marines to play the game again, but on the same side. Especially not as another marine.
- I'm not buckshot user, even if I would be robust enough to PB xenos, I still preffer distance. That is the point of weapons, to shoot stuff from afar.
- I think that nothing besides abilites for xenos and stats of weapons and xenos won't change right now.

they said they want 50/50 not old 75/25 xeno over marine btw.

As far as pointblank "git gud and dodge it" I consider myself pretty robust with just about every caste. Yesterday I was an elite runner, got pb'd and died instantly. I came back got to mature runner, got pb'd and crit then killed instantly. Came back a third time got to mature runner and killed the b18 and the pyro. PB can kill anyone, its just pure luck 90% of the time. Ya theres a few marines that are actually good but most just use an op weapon.

Imagine if punch (the xeno equivalent to a PB) stunned you for 2 seconds and did either 90% of your health or instantly crit a marine. Yall would be salting the server so hard it would crash.

if you want to keep op pointblank buckshot then make acid blood actually do something. When the marine derps an alien ontop of him it should melt the marine and kill his ass. Then it would be balanced.

Sure, but how to change it? I guess xenos don't mind getting shot by buckshot from one-two titles away?
More lethal acid seems like good idea to scare off PB'ers, but we all know that they don't care about their life. PB damage and stun is too tempting to not take it even it it means death, you can be revived and burn damage is easy to treat.
Removing PB "benefits"? Let armor still apply while PB'ing.
RNG chance of missing PB's? Not actually missing, but xenos and marines should be able to dodge it, becouse it's literally gun next to your body. How to not try to dodge/parry it? Xenos in "hunt" mode would have small chance to dodge it, but in "Stalk" it could rise to something that you could count on. Especially true on smaller and faster xenos (T1 and T2 have big problem with PB, Queen and T3 can't be stunned, so they would have little to no PB dodge)
Gun melting after PB?

P.S.

Regarding post above:
SMG's and Pulse Rifle are bad, becouse they only deal damage. Ancient lurker charging at me won't be slowed down, he won't stop untill I will either deal enough damage to scare him off, or he will finally reach punce range. With slug shotgun I can count on stopping him for a sec and escaping, unlike peashooters. Slug can also stop escaping xeno. If damage would slow xenos down, then I would consider Pulse Rifle as the best weapon there is.

[TheMaskedMan2]

We should get a caste that does poison or tox damage, like a sting, scorpion beanomorph.

[Swagile]

We should get a caste that does poison or tox damage, like a sting, scorpion beanomorph.

not sure if your trolling or serious

we already have a serious problem with spitter being a useless caste because acid does no long lasting damage and is easily fixed by one pill

the same can be said with a toxin damage caste; it would make dylovene and other similar drugs a lot more relevant instead of something you drop to open up space for extra tramadol

[CABAL]

not sure if your trolling or serious

we already have a serious problem with spitter being a useless caste because acid does no long lasting damage and is easily fixed by one pill

the same can be said with a toxin damage caste; it would make dylovene and other similar drugs a lot more relevant instead of something you drop to open up space for extra tramadol

Spitter does not depends on acid spit only. One ability don't two-three shot marine so it's useless? Spitter is just better sentinel, slower, but he is true ancient machine gun neuro spitter. You can stunlock any marine on the field, that means rushing specs and SL'ers have to bite the dirt while other xenos can roam more with more freedom.

I guess if toxin would work as it does with terror spiders then marine without any help from fellow medics would slow down to a crawl after a while, maybe some visual effects to mess with aim. Yet this caste won't help with PB's at current state.

Idea came to my mind regarding marine's defibs: Make weeds "absorb" dead bodies. It's lore friendly, helps deal with marines in already captured territories and *could speed up the process of healing if nothing else would have change.