What Xenos Need

[Swagile]

Spitter does not depends on acid spit only. One ability don't two-three shot marine so it's useless? Spitter is just better sentinel, slower, but he is true ancient machine gun neuro spitter. You can stunlock any marine on the field, that means rushing specs and SL'ers have to bite the dirt while other xenos can roam more with more freedom.

I guess if toxin would work as it does with terror spiders then marine without any help from fellow medics would slow down to a crawl after a while, maybe some visual effects to mess with aim. Yet this caste won't help with PB's at current state.

Idea came to my mind regarding marine's defibs: Make weeds "absorb" dead bodies. It's lore friendly, helps deal with marines in already captured territories and *could speed up the process of healing if nothing else would have change.

what i mean is a spitter is no better than a sentinel, hence going spitter just for the neurotoxin is a waste of a T2 slot when you could just stay sentinel and become elite / ancient and be just as good if not better than a spitter, letting a runner go Lurker (Which is infinitely better)

aka spitter doesn't reflect the cost benefit analysis; it costs too much (a T2 slot) for less benefit than a sentinel (a T1)

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

I was feeling the same way about spitter, like what is it even for? Just a slow sentinal, and acid spit still does piss poor damage.
Maybe make the spitter's acid spit into a sniper like deal for massive damage, would make more sense when it goes boily for long range bombards

[digitalattack]

what i mean is a spitter is no better than a sentinel, hence going spitter just for the neurotoxin is a waste of a T2 slot when you could just stay sentinel and become elite / ancient and be just as good if not better than a spitter, letting a runner go Lurker (Which is infinitely better)

aka spitter doesn't reflect the cost benefit analysis; it costs too much (a T2 slot) for less benefit than a sentinel (a T1)

Spitter does though have a longer stun duration than senti with it's neuro spit.

[Reuben Owen]

really bring back prae spit range tho

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Spitter does not depends on acid spit only. One ability don't two-three shot marine so it's useless? Spitter is just better sentinel, slower, but he is true ancient machine gun neuro spitter. You can stunlock any marine on the field, that means rushing specs and SL'ers have to bite the dirt while other xenos can roam more with more freedom.

I guess if toxin would work as it does with terror spiders then marine without any help from fellow medics would slow down to a crawl after a while, maybe some visual effects to mess with aim. Yet this caste won't help with PB's at current state.

Idea came to my mind regarding marine's defibs: Make weeds "absorb" dead bodies. It's lore friendly, helps deal with marines in already captured territories and *could speed up the process of healing if nothing else would have change.

Neuro-Fu isn't the problem.

The problem is the offensive ranged weapon, the one of two things that can counter shotguns, deals pathetic damage to the point where it's laughable. If the acid damage was lethal, then we'd have a really good counter to risky shotgunners, but we don't.

[Swagile]

Spitter does though have a longer stun duration than senti with it's neuro spit.

and?

it still doesn't warrant it being a T2; just a little longer Neuro spit =/= worthy of being a T2 slot

spitters need a buff to their acid spit, either through permanent damage (first, second, third degree burns etc) or through doing more acid damage overrall so its harder to patch up via meds

otherwise its better just to stay sentinel

Neuro-Fu isn't the problem.

The problem is the offensive ranged weapon, the one of two things that can counter shotguns, deals pathetic damage to the point where it's laughable. If the acid damage was lethal, then we'd have a really good counter to risky shotgunners, but we don't.

this

[digitalattack]

and?

it still doesn't warrant it being a T2; just a little longer Neuro spit =/= worthy of being a T2 slot

spitters need a buff to their acid spit, either through permanent damage (first, second, third degree burns etc) or through doing more acid damage overrall so its harder to patch up via meds

otherwise its better just to stay sentinel



this

Yeah I completely agree that spitter could do with more acid damage, honestly I'd love a T3 sentinal line caste that focused on long range single target acid spits much like a xeno sniper, i just thought I might add that considering a lot of people think that senti stun time and spitter stun time is the same.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Yeah I completely agree that spitter could do with more acid damage, honestly I'd love a T3 sentinal line caste that focused on long range single target acid spits much like a xeno sniper, i just thought I might add that considering a lot of people think that senti stun time and spitter stun time is the same.

Maybe not off-screen acid spit, because that kinda seems... I dunno, to mirror humans a bit too much.

I'd want my aliens to have alien weapons and tactics, y'know? A giant organic cannon spitting giant globs of exploding acid gas is unique, a sniper... well, we already have three different flavors of sniper in the game, I don't want anymore honestly.

[conthegodoffire]

Maybe not off-screen acid spit, because that kinda seems... I dunno, to mirror humans a bit too much.

I'd want my aliens to have alien weapons and tactics, y'know? A giant organic cannon spitting giant globs of exploding acid gas is unique, a sniper... well, we already have three different flavors of sniper in the game, I don't want anymore honestly.

I agree with this. But i would like to see some improvements, acid spit sniping seems too on the nose.
How about just giving the acid a short lasting effect? Just like sticks to a marine for a short time causing burn damage. No way around the damage, just get hit, wait it out, heal/die/whatever happens to you.

I would not like to do the acid sticks to armor thing again, that went badly last time. So why not just out right damage over time flat out?

[Simo94]

why does it have to be either a 3 tiles or straight up offscreen spit?

they need to give spitter acid spit a passive, like that white foggy screen or a short slowdown or dropping the weapon or anything, and praetorian simply needs its old spit back.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Spitter spit could use a bit more damage, it's not bad, but it just isn't relevant right now.

Also I think Praetorian needs some actual range back to be honest. Praetorian can be that nice focused ranged damage dealer to counter buckshot.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Spitter spit could use a bit more damage, it's not bad, but it just isn't relevant right now.

i strongly disagree that spitter spit isn't bad

it does less damage than a thrown floor tile

[misto]

while it is fun to poop acid on marines from mostly outside of their retaliation range as a spitter, due to darkness and etc. usually obscuring you, it is quite truthful that the acid does not have a heavy effect, a harassment at best. neuroing+slashing is more effective for killing and crippling due to the enduring pain and debility broken bones and such can cause.

[lurkermain]

Spitter is in kind of a bad place as a solo performer, like others say the acid spit is weak.

In my opinion, the spitter only has strategic use, for 1v1 engagements you are better off with an ancient sentinel than a mature spitter as it can neuro spam just the same (actually better, I think)
But spitters can contribute to long assaults where you need attrition to win, if you keep up the spits the marines will eventually run out of medical supplies while xenos can heal indefinitely.

I think there are two groups of combat castes in general: strategic and solo.
The former, containing crushers, boilers and spitters, cannot do much on their own, they can die to a PFC if it does not stand still, but when used as part of a group effort they win the round.
The other group, can eliminate most solo marines and harass small groups, but even if you kill 20 lone marines by yourself, their remaining groups can wipe out the hive just the same.

[Gnorse]

by the way, I'm pretty sure tackles were nerfed to make capturing harder since, you know, multilarva bursting.
on that note, I'd love to have the burrower buffed, kinda useless atm.

how about we just let the xeno larvae spawn in as a mature(young?) caste of their choice that cannot evolve or upgrade for those that want instant action ? T2/T3 restrictions still apply.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

by the way, I'm pretty sure tackles were nerfed to make capturing harder since, you know, multilarva bursting.
on that note, I'd love to have the burrower buffed, kinda useless atm.

how about we just let the xeno larvae spawn in as a mature(young?) caste of their choice that cannot evolve or upgrade for those that want instant action ? T2/T3 restrictions still apply.

Tackle was nerfed LONG before the larva change, the larva change was just a bandage fix to make beanos less fucking shit

Also yeah the burrower needs some fucking love, and the hivelord too which was nerfed so the shitastic burrower can make tunnels instead. But they seem keen on keeping the burrower total fucking shit and the butt of jokes for some reason.
Spitter could also use some love, it is currently just a slower and worse sentinel with a shitty acid spit fixed with some ointment from the two first-aid pouches I carry. Only reason to spitter is to become a boiler. Which can be said for a lot of the current t2s. 'Only this to become the slightly less shit t3'

[kastion]

by the way, I'm pretty sure tackles were nerfed to make capturing harder since, you know, multilarva bursting.
on that note, I'd love to have the burrower buffed, kinda useless atm.

how about we just let the xeno larvae spawn in as a mature(young?) caste of their choice that cannot evolve or upgrade for those that want instant action ? T2/T3 restrictions still apply.

why would anyone want to be a mature t1 forever? mature t1s suck ass.

[DrPng]

Burrower just need a plain fix, and I'm sure the Devs know this because the upgrade path is straight 500 for every rank. Burrower's burrow ability needs some more light to shine on it, I think an increased burrow range as well as the ability to ambush marines ( WITH A COOL DOWN ) might be pretty cool.

[Garrison]

Burrower just need a plain fix, and I'm sure the Devs know this because the upgrade path is straight 500 for every rank. Burrower's burrow ability needs some more light to shine on it, I think an increased burrow range as well as the ability to ambush marines ( WITH A COOL DOWN ) might be pretty cool.

Or at the very least give it a damage/health boost to mirror the bulk and massive claws it has.

[kastion]

honestly with the shrapnel changes they just keep pushing out more instakills and stuff like that. They want xenos to die easily and they want there to be more xenos. I honestly feel like they dont care what we think at all and never even look at these threads. I think gitlab is just a way to get people to vent frustration and they dont give a shit about it either. They just look at it for bug reports. This dev team is not transparent at all and it is really frustrating because every update I like xenos less and less.

Nothing better than spending an hour and forty minutes surviving to get ancient t2 then getting instakilled from a land mine. That makes the game so much fun. Yet we have very few ways to instakill marines and they can get revived easy as fuck. Ya that makes so much sense.

[CABAL]

honestly with the shrapnel changes they just keep pushing out more instakills and stuff like that. They want xenos to die easily and they want there to be more xenos. I honestly feel like they dont care what we think at all and never even look at these threads. I think gitlab is just a way to get people to vent frustration and they dont give a shit about it either. They just look at it for bug reports. This dev team is not transparent at all and it is really frustrating because every update I like xenos less and less.

Nothing better than spending an hour and forty minutes surviving to get ancient t2 then getting instakilled from a land mine. That makes the game so much fun. Yet we have very few ways to instakill marines and they can get revived easy as fuck. Ya that makes so much sense.

Hey, that's what I felt like 9 months ago with marines. The tides has turned.

[Simo94]

Hey, that's what I felt like 9 months ago with marines. The tides has turned.

atleast marines had numbers and were still fun to play back then

[misto]

Or at the very least give it a damage/health boost to mirror the bulk and massive claws it has.

it would be interesting, but risky, to make the burrower actually Good At Fighting. Interesting, because then its a class that the queen can let evo into carrier if capturing and defensive traps are a priority, and devo to burrower if killing and attacking is priority. Risky, because if it's Good At Fighting then it will risk overshadowing warriors or standing side by side with t3 fighters like ravs despite being a drone t2, which is not appropriate

[CABAL]

atleast marines had numbers and were still fun to play back then

Xenos never were fun to play. Of course it can be for someone who plays SS13 like TF2, CS, or AvP. What CM13/SS13 have that AvP/other multiplayer games don't? Complexity and RP elements. Just having "hacking" skill won't make you a hacker in here, you have to also know what are you doing. OB and CAS is not automatic, you lase the target, but there has to be PO somewhere to shoot. You are not choosing your attachements in game menu, you have to get them by standing in lines, asking for them politely, or you will be denied. Your death usually means end for you for that round. Round that can last more than 2 hours. Could you imagine to play Battlefield, or CoD and wait after your death more than half of minute to respawn?

You can't have presonality as xeno, whole concept of "Hivemind" takes only benefits from it and ignores interesting drawbacks (xenos do what they want and Queen has to especially order something important, otherwise it's ignored), you can't RP becouse RP'ing would mean you have personality as "faceless killer", even if you try, you are accused of playing bad becouse you have to powergame to be "true" xeno. Xeno that don't attack synth on the first sight and says "bird", or "tallhosts" don't know that it is silently frawed upon becouse not killing this synth potentially raises marine's chaces to win and spending that milisecond on writing "tallhost" instead of "marine" is very, very, very important.

How to make xenos fun to play? Make them immortal gods that can kill marines with snap of their claw/fingers and that can't be killed in any way by one to two hits? They have only combat, the same, boring, repetitive combat.

I can only imagine "fun" in round/even where they have to overrun the colony. From the first few chestbursters, to the whole might you can achieve, not be granted by just AFK'in for 30 minutes. Standard Xeno infestation on regular SS13 is way more fun as xeno becouse it's way more inpredictable.

[kastion]

Xenos never were fun to play. Of course it can be for someone who plays SS13 like TF2, CS, or AvP. What CM13/SS13 have that AvP/other multiplayer games don't? Complexity and RP elements. Just having "hacking" skill won't make you a hacker in here, you have to also know what are you doing. OB and CAS is not automatic, you lase the target, but there has to be PO somewhere to shoot. You are not choosing your attachements in game menu, you have to get them by standing in lines, asking for them politely, or you will be denied. Your death usually means end for you for that round. Round that can last more than 2 hours. Could you imagine to play Battlefield, or CoD and wait after your death more than half of minute to respawn?

You can't have presonality as xeno, whole concept of "Hivemind" takes only benefits from it and ignores interesting drawbacks (xenos do what they want and Queen has to especially order something important, otherwise it's ignored), you can't RP becouse RP'ing would mean you have personality as "faceless killer", even if you try, you are accused of playing bad becouse you have to powergame to be "true" xeno. Xeno that don't attack synth on the first sight and says "bird", or "tallhosts" don't know that it is silently frawed upon becouse not killing this synth potentially raises marine's chaces to win and spending that milisecond on writing "tallhost" instead of "marine" is very, very, very important.

How to make xenos fun to play? Make them immortal gods that can kill marines with snap of their claw/fingers and that can't be killed in any way by one to two hits? They have only combat, the same, boring, repetitive combat.

I can only imagine "fun" in round/even where they have to overrun the colony. From the first few chestbursters, to the whole might you can achieve, not be granted by just AFK'in for 30 minutes. Standard Xeno infestation on regular SS13 is way more fun as xeno becouse it's way more inpredictable.

You are such a troll dude. No one wants to be " immortal gods that can kill marines with snap of their claw/fingers and that can't be killed in any way by one to two hits". You dont even play xeno and come here and tell us we are all wrong constantly. It gets annoying.