What Xenos Need

[Symbiosis]

First off, I'm witnessing mostly high pop rounds, so if low-pop is a Xeno stomp consistently, then perhaps I'm wrong.

If I had to estimate, the Xeno win rate is somewhere in the 20%-25% area right now - IF that. Marines are able to win during a stalemate since Xenos cannot drag dead bodies back - and with the tackle nerfs even if they do get the jump on a Marine they struggle to 1v1.

Xeno is unplayable if you don't have an exceptionally skilled Queen AND skilled T3 - leading to wasted rounds where the Xenos don't even put up a fight.

Young T3/Mature T2 are basically garbage at this point.

Basic Queen and even Elite Queen dies in 2 PB shotgun hits. Basic Queen moves nearly as slow as a Marine wearing splints.

Xeno population struggles to break 30 as most of the Xeno Mains are throwing in their proverbial hats - and the ones that -want- to play just go to a certain unnamed server where there is a better power balance. It's not like Xenos really have much of an opportunity to RP; so the sole focus should ultimately be to make them rewarding from a challenge aspect as they pit themselves against the Marines. At this point even with the tank disabled it feels like Xenos struggle to even fight a Marine 1v1, let alone 1v2.

So then... what do we need?

Frankly, there is too much reliance upon the Queen at this point. A non-combat Queen will result in Hives being whittled down and rolled as Marines are now winning the attrition game. The burrowed Larva is a nerf to Xenos - and the Queen as a unit is relatively weak until they reach Empress barring their screech.

Xenos as a whole need their tackle chances back to where they were. A single Xeno should not struggle against a lone Marine.

If you wish to leave the corpse dragging aspect OUT (which is fine) a large adjustment to evolution/upgrade speeds needs to be added. Right now; the attrition game favors the Marines and there is ZERO incentive for Marines to not push like mad - especially considering when they die their fellow Marines can drag them back to Medics.

Hopefully this gets some traction - as for me? I'm throwing in the Xeno hat. I've wasted quite a few evenings trying to get Queen/Round Start Xeno to have little luck only to watch the Xenos get rolled due to poor T3's/new Queens.

Hopefully we can make Xeno fun again if we bring some reasonable changes forward.

[Loco52]

I have to agree here. The tackle nerf DESTROYED xenos. Yesterday I played ancient runner and didn't enjoy it at all. Why? Well, runner's pounce knocks down a marine for like 0.01 seconds in contrast to lurker's pounce, and there's absolutely no way to land a single tackle before being murdered by the marine you're trying to 1v1. It really, really became a pain in the ass to play an aged T1-T2 xeno when you know you'll be completely and utterly useless when most T3s (except prae which is shit) are murdered/bald.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

First off, I'm witnessing mostly high pop rounds, so if low-pop is a Xeno stomp consistently, then perhaps I'm wrong.

If I had to estimate, the Xeno win rate is somewhere in the 20%-25% area right now - IF that. Marines are able to win during a stalemate since Xenos cannot drag dead bodies back - and with the tackle nerfs even if they do get the jump on a Marine they struggle to 1v1.

Xeno is unplayable if you don't have an exceptionally skilled Queen AND skilled T3 - leading to wasted rounds where the Xenos don't even put up a fight.

Young T3/Mature T2 are basically garbage at this point.

Basic Queen and even Elite Queen dies in 2 PB shotgun hits. Basic Queen moves nearly as slow as a Marine wearing splints.

Xeno population struggles to break 30 as most of the Xeno Mains are throwing in their proverbial hats - and the ones that -want- to play just go to a certain unnamed server where there is a better power balance. It's not like Xenos really have much of an opportunity to RP; so the sole focus should ultimately be to make them rewarding from a challenge aspect as they pit themselves against the Marines. At this point even with the tank disabled it feels like Xenos struggle to even fight a Marine 1v1, let alone 1v2.

So then... what do we need?

Frankly, there is too much reliance upon the Queen at this point. A non-combat Queen will result in Hives being whittled down and rolled as Marines are now winning the attrition game. The burrowed Larva is a nerf to Xenos - and the Queen as a unit is relatively weak until they reach Empress barring their screech.

Xenos as a whole need their tackle chances back to where they were. A single Xeno should not struggle against a lone Marine.

If you wish to leave the corpse dragging aspect OUT (which is fine) a large adjustment to evolution/upgrade speeds needs to be added. Right now; the attrition game favors the Marines and there is ZERO incentive for Marines to not push like mad - especially considering when they die their fellow Marines can drag them back to Medics.

Hopefully this gets some traction - as for me? I'm throwing in the Xeno hat. I've wasted quite a few evenings trying to get Queen/Round Start Xeno to have little luck only to watch the Xenos get rolled due to poor T3's/new Queens.

Hopefully we can make Xeno fun again if we bring some reasonable changes forward.

Shame to see another good player abandon xenos, I play marine 99% of the time and it is getting really dull atm. Land, rush, win GG ez game over in 45mins.
I miss when xenos were a threat.
Now we just have cute purple kittens to fight.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I agree as someone who has been playing xeno much. The tackle nerf made it that a xeno can no longer 1v1 a marine, I mean the whole point of the runner/lurker caste was always to catch the lone marines dumb enough to stray too far from their buddies.

You even have multiple players saying warriors are useless and now everyone just goes T2 Lurker or tries to get the T3 crusher/ravager spots.

[Rafar9]

Have to agree, unless the hive has a screech, defeating large pushes without the aid of supremely skilled T3s is damn near impossible. Even with such skilled T3s, the marines essentially have numbers and better attacks, so there is little xenos can do to stop the tide of unga.

Reversing tackle nerf would prob be a good idea.

[kastion]

I play the exact opposite of you, only on low pop. Xenos have been getting destroyed. One night we lost 5 out of 7 matches. The only way to win is to have good T3. If your t3 die early the whole hive gets rolled. We have had matches last 30 minutes after marines land. Low pop is brutal because sometimes it will be 15 xenos vs 60 marines so we are outnumbered 4 to 1 and we suck. 99% of my deaths are just getting stunned by buckshot/slugs/rockets/tank. I think that is the problem myself but maybe I just suck.

[Butlerblock]

+ 1

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

I just want the devs to take it slow in both nerfing and buffing man. Maybe un-nerf tackling first, to see how xeno fares against marine's current power with not shit tackle. Then if it's not enough, maybe take a look at, say it with me folks, FLATTENING THE XENO POWER CURVE. Like seriously, it's not fun having to wait for 20 minutes before you can actually play the game.

[Garrison]

I just want the devs to take it slow in both nerfing and buffing man. Maybe un-nerf tackling first, to see how xeno fares against marine's current power with not shit tackle. Then if it's not enough, maybe take a look at, say it with me folks, FLATTENING THE XENO POWER CURVE. Like seriously, it's not fun having to wait for 20 minutes before you can actually play the game.

To add to this, one thing I see is that a highly skilled T3 can destroy half of the marines. Whereas anything less cannot compare is terms of results. I think either the restrictions on how many T2's or T3's that can exist need to be loosened, or the Xeno's need to be able to grow faster, or there needs to be a bunch of appropriate tweaking on both sides.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

At the moment the two largest problems I think xenos suffer right now are larval spawns and the tackle reduction.

The sheer fucking clumsiness of having to observe to play xeno, only to find out the queen was de'ovi'd and now you have to wait upwards of 20 minutes when you could have quite easily just pressed the 'Join the USCM' button instead.

Join The Hive is a pointless button now, and I think what it should do instead is this:

If there are burrowed larvae, pressing the button instantly spawns one.

If you are observing, every 1.5 minutes a new larva will unburrow with an observer inside (If their preferences are on), ignoring the 5 minute death timer because frankly it's pointless and was meant to be used when larvae weren't buried.

[AcuteCircle]

I started to play xeno and I definitely agree. Xenos rely too much on a good screech or robust t3 and I can't tell who's robust if I don't know their names. It feels fucking bad to die 1v1 to some unga as an elder runner because he got a lucky buckshot on me and my shitty tackle keeps missing. Having to delay for an hour so I can get ancient is so counter-productive and booooooooooooring.

[Aracino]

Pretty much all the above. The recent explosive update isn't helping, with the bug that stuns both crushers and queens for upwards of 10 seconds via a direct RPG hit. The xeno stuns are slowly being nerfed while marine stuns are quickly being buffed. Claymore stun time is practically doubled now with the recent explosive update, aka anyone who wasn't even actively watching the claymore can go grab a snack, piss, then come back and walk over to where you tripped it and unload a 100% accurate burst from a m41a into your face.

Speaking of the m41a, the recent buffs have made it sickeningly overpowered. It's burst is 100% accurate, and can extend off screen and hit any xeno in it's path. So body blocking is a bigger issue than it's even been. Shotguns basically never run slugs now since buckshot is king, killing most things in a MELEE FOCUSED ARMY in one shot. Xeno numbers being near unreplenishable at a certain point, mainly down to xenos just not wanting to deal with the overwhelming amount of marines that could be captured, forcing some poor sap to sit around until one guy who will inevitably have a shotgun with a mag harness will kill them and waste their time even more so. The inability for sents to de-nest has made prisoner management a nightmare, especially when another xeno decides to put a new captured host 10 miles away from the ones you were guarding, so you have to BREAK THE NEST to let them out and drag them where you actually want them, wasting a nest in the process. That doesn't even begin to match the annoyance of not being able to un-nest corpses, which is the most annoying thing in the sentinel's current gameplay. Not to mention sentinels can't even keep a marine stunned long enough to nest until they're mature.

This isn't even beginning to get into how squishy t3s are and how punishing their gameplay is. Boiler doesn't need to worry about the tank but they do need to worry about the rpg with a range scope attachment, CAS right under them, snipers constantly setting them on fire, scouts dealing 75% of their health from a burst shot, and having their gas rarely do anything given it doesn't deal damage while it spreads. (Bug) Ravagers having to rely on layers and layers of rng to get anything done. You slash. Does it break armor? Is the damage just low? Did it break a bone? Did it delimb? Did it clean cut? There's so much rng when it comes to a simple slash, and not aiming for arms and legs is a fruitless endeavor given just how absolutely insanely tanky the marine body armor and helmet is sometimes. Praetorian who is basically a pyrospec with a slug shotgun and green flame. They're ironically the best t3 at the moment given their acid is the one tool xenos have on demand that halts marine pushes so a boiler can drop a gas cloud. Crushers...How the mighty have fallen. With buckshot ignoring armor at PB, you better never try to fight a marine ever. I've been a mature crusher with queen warding and 2 pb buckshots have taken me out while TEN tackles were missed trying to knock the guy down, given crusher slashes are real shit. The stomp doesn't even do that much damage compared to most other castes just slashing. Yeah it'll occasionally delimb or something but right now the stomp feels pretty shit. Also where did the momentum meter go for crushers? Lasly on the topic of crushers, everything that's meant to stop crushers is doing it way to well. What with blue flame pyros in chokes, buckshot at chokes, and now RPG at chokes....Playing a crusher is like playing a battering ram made of paper mache.

So yeah that's my opinion on the matter, agree or don't, it's just my feelings on the current state of the game.

[MattAtlas]

The tackle nerf and the xeno stat nerf are what caused all these issues in the first place. Mainly because half the castes are really bad in comparison to others.

Moreover flanking is harder than ever, you can't reliably attack groups without tackles anymore.

[immaspaceninja]

T1s must be buffed and xenos should be combat-able right as they evolve into anything from larva. Players shouldnt spend an hour till they can actually play the game.
Any xeno should have stats that are good enough for fighting from the very beginning. Going from t1 to t2 should be more about getting those new abilitites and less about the raw stats buff.

[Sleepy Retard]

As per the past, and as it seems like it always shall be, the queen is way too important for the xenos to win.

Should the queen be important for the hive? Yes, of course, losing a queen should be bad. Should it be required to win? No, not at all. Most of the rounds I find the queen ahelps and says "I'm new." For whatever reason, xenos also lose that round. Then, I go onto the next round and the queen is also bald or new. Watch every marine major. The first queen, more likely than not, you'll scratch your head on who the fuck that is.

Here's a solution, like nachocheese suggested, bring the stats down a few maturity levels. Elder and Ancient are when you get retards amount of power. Barring t3s, as their elders are fucktarded strong, T1/T2s NEED to be mature strength from the go. Does that make them OP? No, it gives them a fighting chance. From there, mature should = inbetween old mature and elder. elder = slightly ahead of old elder. ancient = less than old ancient, but more than the last maturity.

For t3s, the same system doesn't work as well given how strong elder is for them. But nonetheless, their strength needs to follow the same sorta dealio. Shave strength off the top tiers and pass it down, making the upgrading power scale much more gradual without losing much power in the end. The only time this would effect you is if you're hitting ancient, as current ancients are fucking retarded strong. Definitely should be weaker with the upside of making lower upgrade levels stronger.

Both marine and xeno have the same problem with time. Assuming you both join round start, what do you do for twenty five minutes? If you're a xeno, you can go grab a monkey or two. Not really fun. If it's LV, unless you're a lurker or runner, you're sitting on your ass for fifty minutes. With these changes, it would make it more accessible for xenos to fight earlier, and effectively.

[BobatNight]

Queen's death is too devastating to the Hive.
Tackle Changes, nesting changes. - Just dumb as fuck lets be honest there.
Lurkers reveal themselves after pouncing makes it difficult to be that stealthy.

A single xeno can't reliably capture a marine anymore thanks to terrible foresight and tackle/devour reworks.

Please stop making the game worse with these dumbass changes.

[kooarbiter]

the waters of balance are always murky, but usually the devs have fixed shit and balanced things out in the end, I personally think xenos need less of a reliance on queen and screech, a flatter power curve, and more fun pregame, also reverting the nest change plox, it is the cause of me not playing sentinel anymore which used to be a fun class

[CABAL]

All I want to say is that I think that "just" runner shouldn't be able to capture a lone marine. Runner is a scout primarily and "harasser" secondly. It should play like "Slash, Slash, GTFO, Return, Slash, Slash" = Hit and Run tactics. I'm strongly against raising bare stats to allow even the baldest xenos capture experienced marine, becouse it pounced him and vored.

About "unesting". Thanks to that there is no more waiting with "watch in hand" to unest marine and spit at him seconds before he could unest himself. It somehow needs to be changed, but not "just" reverted, or welcome good ol'XenoMeta/Powergaming.

[Symbiosis]

All I want to say is that I think that "just" runner shouldn't be able to capture a lone marine. Runner is a scout primarily and "harasser" secondly. It should play like "Slash, Slash, GTFO, Return, Slash, Slash" = Hit and Run tactics. I'm strongly against raising bare stats to allow even the baldest xenos capture experienced marine, becouse it pounced him and vored.

About "unesting". Thanks to that there is no more waiting with "watch in hand" to unest marine and spit at him seconds before he could unest himself. It somehow needs to be changed, but not "just" reverted, or welcome good ol'XenoMeta/Powergaming.

The problem is numbers.

If you’ve got 30 xenos (high pop numbers) you’ve got at MOST 10-15 T2 and maybe 6-8 T3.

If it’s high pop you’ve got half your Xenos as T1’s which means 70-80 Marines are facing 16-23 xenos that are able to fight back reliabily.

[CABAL]

The problem is numbers.

If you’ve got 30 xenos (high pop numbers) you’ve got at MOST 10-15 T2 and maybe 6-8 T3.

If it’s high pop you’ve got half your Xenos as T1’s which means 70-80 Marines are facing 16-23 xenos that are able to fight back reliabily.

Yeah, sure, but screen size is always the same. War might be big, but battles are fairly small. More than half year ago a single xeno on Almayer could kill 40-50 marines/crew.

[Symbiosis]

Yeah, sure, but screen size is always the same. War might be big, but battles are fairly small. More than half year ago a single xeno on Almayer could kill 40-50 marines/crew.

Sure... I also know Marines have single handedly wiped a Hive as well. Rare occurrences aren’t the norm; you wouldn’t nerf all weapons assuming Harry Cowper and Lisa Taylor were every Marine. Same as using rare occurrences when robust Xeno players face exceptionally bald players under less than ideal scenarios.

[Butlerblock]

Yeah, sure, but screen size is always the same. War might be big, but battles are fairly small. More than half year ago a single xeno on Almayer could kill 40-50 marines/crew.

said xeno needs to be extremely robust to combat almayer crew, along with needing the planets to align to get this to work, such as both PO’s being bald, nobody on the DS when you hop on, queen being smart and following you changing pheromones when needed and healing(before it was changed), and the crew not perma stunning you with tactical slug.

[CABAL]

Sure... I also know Marines have single handedly wiped a Hive as well. Rare occurrences aren’t the norm; you wouldn’t nerf all weapons assuming Harry Cowper and Lisa Taylor were every Marine. Same as using rare occurrences when robust Xeno players face exceptionally bald players under less than ideal scenarios.

> "you wouldn’t nerf all weapons assuming Harry Cowper and Lisa Taylor were every Marine."
> "Shotgun aim delay has been increased to account for the existence of the angled grip."


It was a thing. Few bald/normal xenos tried to "ambush" normal/veteran marines, but buckshot stunned them and then they died? NERF!
Few marines running holding two shotguns? NERF!
Raising "bare" stats will make bad xenos a decent xenos, but robust xenos a "god-tier" xenos.

T1's might indeed need few tweaks, slight buffs etc.

Yet I don't agree with getting more T3's and T2's. They are like xeno side "specialists" and PFC's aren't getting "abilities" to use RPG and Sniper rifle in time.

Another thing is "attitude" for xeno battles. They are NOT front fighters. Wars aren't really a xenomorph thing. Marines have range weapons, so it's logic they win in a frontal attack.

[Symbiosis]

> "you wouldn’t nerf all weapons assuming Harry Cowper and Lisa Taylor were every Marine."
> "Shotgun aim delay has been increased to account for the existence of the angled grip."


It was a thing. Few bald/normal xenos tried to "ambush" normal/veteran marines, but buckshot stunned them and then they died? NERF!
Few marines running holding two shotguns? NERF!
Raising "bare" stats will make bad xenos a decent xenos, but robust xenos a "god-tier" xenos.

T1's might indeed need few tweaks, slight buffs etc.

Yet I don't agree with getting more T3's and T2's. They are like xeno side "specialists" and PFC's aren't getting "abilities" to use RPG and Sniper rifle in time.

Another thing is "attitude" for xeno battles. They are NOT front fighters. Wars aren't really a xenomorph thing. Marines have range weapons, so it's logic they win in a frontal attack.

Conceptually you understand that if Xenos cannot reliabily 1v1 they are going to lose, right?

A Marine can be defibbed, a Xeno cannot.

There a 3-4 more Marine/Crew than Xenos. Do you want a competitive game or NPC Xenos?

[CABAL]

Conceptually you understand that if Xenos cannot reliabily 1v1 they are going to lose, right?

A Marine can be defibbed, a Xeno cannot.

There a 3-4 more Marine/Crew than Xenos. Do you want a competitive game or NPC Xenos?

1vs1 capture by bald xeno/decent runner? No. 1vs1 Kill? Yes.

This is what I'm saying.