Xeno Mutator discussion

[ThePiachu]

Yeah, pure stat mutators are meant to be boring. They are the backup anyone can take until we figure out something cool to give to the most boring castes like Crusher .

At the moment, all mutators are the same price for easier balance. In the future we could see cheaper mutators that do something smaller, or perhaps we will get rid of the point cost altogether, or maybe make some mutators that cost double maturity cost to make you have to save your chitin pennies. We'll see how things go.

[kastion]

Yeah, pure stat mutators are meant to be boring. They are the backup anyone can take until we figure out something cool to give to the most boring castes like Crusher .

At the moment, all mutators are the same price for easier balance. In the future we could see cheaper mutators that do something smaller, or perhaps we will get rid of the point cost altogether, or maybe make some mutators that cost double maturity cost to make you have to save your chitin pennies. We'll see how things go.

Give crusher a mutation that removes its ram ability and gives it more armor all around and higher tackle chance so it can go in close and fight people.

[NeatoNito]

I have gathered my thoughts based on the 3 games I observed and the two I played last night.

The Population of Xeno's is way too high, Along side the buffs to HP and armor allowing more mistakes to be made, They have more than enough replacements for the ones who DO fall in battle.

Every game but this last one on prison haven't been even nearly close. Xeno's have stomped marines 4/5 games due to sheer numbers.
Of the Rounds I witnessed these are the amounts of Combat units vs. the amount of Xeno's at the 30 minute mark.

First was the game where Xeno's had 21 castes versus the Marines 32.
Second had 20 Xeno's to the Marines 27!
Third had 17 Xeno's Versus the Marines 22.

These ratios would've made even pre-mutator fights a nightmare. Not impossible, but really difficult. Now that the Xeno's have the numbers to fill out all their buried larva, The fights aren't at a healthy balance. Marines struggle more often than not and its exhausting to play. A lot of people are already burned out by it.

This concludes my thoughts on the matter! I hope you have something in the pipe aimed to fixing this!

[Garrison]

I have gathered my thoughts based on the 3 games I observed and the two I played last night.

The Population of Xeno's is way too high, Along side the buffs to HP and armor allowing more mistakes to be made, They have more than enough replacements for the ones who DO fall in battle.

Every game but this last one on prison haven't been even nearly close. Xeno's have stomped marines 4/5 games due to sheer numbers.
Of the Rounds I witnessed these are the amounts of Combat units vs. the amount of Xeno's at the 30 minute mark.

First was the game where Xeno's had 21 castes versus the Marines 32.
Second had 20 Xeno's to the Marines 27!
Third had 17 Xeno's Versus the Marines 22.

These ratios would've made even pre-mutator fights a nightmare. Not impossible, but really difficult. Now that the Xeno's have the numbers to fill out all their buried larva, The fights aren't at a healthy balance. Marines struggle more often than not and its exhausting to play. A lot of people are already burned out by it.

Sounds like CM before Marines were buffed and given the tank. Marines have always gotten stomped on most of their lives. They'll endure until a compromise is made.

[WinterClould]

Marines are ment to be bullied and get their asses kicked. As long as I've known it it's been okay for marines to get shit on, because we can take the beating. We can lose round after round and keep coming back to play more. We don't quit and instead actually adapt, shift the meta, and get better at the game.

A stronger xeno team is a good thing for all marine player because it actually challenges us to get better and think outside the box.

This fact, that marines will typically adapt and overcome, is why its in my eyes a good thing for the devs to over buff xenos. Since it not only allows them to in turn give marines buffs they've wanted to give them, but also breeds a new generation of marine players who once again know what it feels like to have to struggle and get good. Something they've been sorely missing for a long time.


Xeno mutator's gud. Gib more stronger ones as well. Let the xenos flex on marines and instead of buckling to the pressure of a few loud mouth cowards who can't handle a challenge, lets stay the course and let them cry themselves a river. Maybe they'll actually play xeno themselves and find it enjoyable. That would just make things even better.

[Simo94]

Marines are ment to be bullied and get their asses kicked. As long as I've known it it's been okay for marines to get shit on, because we can take the beating. We can lose round after round and keep coming back to play more. We don't quit and instead actually adapt, shift the meta, and get better at the game.

A stronger xeno team is a good thing for all marine player because it actually challenges us to get better and think outside the box.

This fact, that marines will typically adapt and overcome, is why its in my eyes a good thing for the devs to over buff xenos. Since it not only allows them to in turn give marines buffs they've wanted to give them, but also breeds a new generation of marine players who once again know what it feels like to have to struggle and get good. Something they've been sorely missing for a long time.


Xeno mutator's gud. Gib more stronger ones as well. Let the xenos flex on marines and instead of buckling to the pressure of a few loud mouth cowards who can't handle a challenge, lets stay the course and let them cry themselves a river. Maybe they'll actually play xeno themselves and find it enjoyable. That would just make things even better.

this is it, chief

[FGRSentinel]

The irony in this statement is almost too much for me to bear... Xenos had to deal with this as well prior to the Mutators being put into effect and how did Marines act when Xenos lost in under an hour? "git gud xenos" "fucking rats" "retard queen(s)" "gg ez" "why are the xenos so bad?".

Xenos have constantly been given a bad hand with multiple updates to their mechanics (only Drone castes and de-nest dead hosts, Tackle nerfs and the Burrower's existence) while Marines had gotten many buffs to their armaments and general explosive buffs, which were so strong for the Tank that it had to be disabled due to being capable of gibbing anything with a direct hit.

Xenos have been dealing with this for about six months and you've only experienced this for a handful of rounds... Guess Marine Players can finally walk a mile in Xenomorph Player's shoes, eh?

Except if you look on the forums you'll see that I questioned the addition of the Burrower because it hamstrung the Carrier while providing little else as a caste:
viewtopic.php?p=224856#p224856
viewtopic.php?p=225712#p225712

...I made a "just off the top of my head" list of reasons why the tank was broken and unfun to play alongside or against:
viewtopic.php?p=231848#p231848

...And occasionally agreed with the benos on how bad some of the changes they received were and on the Discord I've openly criticized people on either side for their inability to be graceful winners while ingame occasionally commending people on their effort. I'm not saying that I'm not the exception to the rule, but directing this at me sure goes a long way in destroying any sympathy I had for the xenos as they struggled through the last six months. And you know why? Mutators are more unbalanced than the tank ever was. When the tank was removed, it still took effort on the part of either side to make progress, you had to make fewer mistakes than the other side if you wanted to win, but while the tank was in Marines had to hope the tank didn't mess them up. Mutators are worse than the tank: benos making a lot of mistakes isn't the difference between victory or defeat for them anymore. It's the difference between a no-contest Xeno Major and a near win for them. Xenos can basically phone in for the round and just not show any concern for anything the Marines have other than the OB and CAS, which the speed mutator lets them evade anyways and they can stop both by simply kidnapping the SLs and scout spec, leaving the Marines completely defenseless.

[kastion]

even if mutators get nerfed to complete shit, this was 100% worth it for all the salt. Im lovin it.

[WinterClould]

even if mutators get nerfed to complete shit, this was 100% worth it for all the salt. Im lovin it.

[CABAL]

The irony in this statement is almost too much for me to bear... Xenos had to deal with this as well prior to the Mutators being put into effect and how did Marines act when Xenos lost in under an hour? "git gud xenos" "fucking rats" "retard queen(s)" "gg ez" "why are the xenos so bad?".

Xenos have constantly been given a bad hand with multiple updates to their mechanics (only Drone castes and de-nest dead hosts, Tackle nerfs and the Burrower's existence) while Marines had gotten many buffs to their armaments and general explosive buffs, which were so strong for the Tank that it had to be disabled due to being capable of gibbing anything with a direct hit.

Xenos have been dealing with this for about six months and you've only experienced this for a handful of rounds... Guess Marine Players can finally walk a mile in Xenomorph Player's shoes, eh?

Let's totally forget years of "75%-25%" winrates for xenos policy. Marines didn't had to deal with this for 6 months. How could xenos survive 50-50, or 40-60 for 6 whole months? That had to be horrible. I don't know how those brave heroes did that. It's masochistic? They are true martyrs, never having the "high ground" over marines, never ever. Untill mutators... Marines finally walked a mile in benomorphmain's shoes, ah!

Let's totally forget current state of boiler gas that is capable of killing a marine on direct hit if he is sligthy wounded (and it's not that hard to hit marine, when whole squad rushes), gas that is capable of killing you without chances to survive if you happened to be lying on the floor for reasons like spit stun, acid stun, screech stun, evading HEFA's and such.
Also Rav RNG should be forgotten that is capable of decapitation, but this is less realiable.

"Many buffs to their armaments", yet marine's guns are still garbage. Nearly every gun that is lying in the colony is better than standard issue shit. Only Buckshot (as an ammunition that doesn't require Req visit, or Spec/Medic/Engi/SL vendor points) was doing the job right as high risk and high reward weapon. And guess what? Preatorian buffs, two-three acid spits and you are critted. You are not even safe behind cades, unlike xenos, becouse bullets like to hit the cades 90% more times that spits does.

From the rounds I played with mutator: I could see OP shit at the first glance and even before I was concerned with castes that specialise in something, to buff it more (Rav DMG, Defeder Armor). Those concerns were viable. Standard weed still requiring two hits is still a chore to deal with. One hit is barely reasonable, since every drone can just shit out node under stray of bullets like he could during sunday morning on stroll in the park.

In the end: It's not like before that "six months" period, gameplay was not in great favour for xenos. Look: Tank was added alongside defender and warrior. Tank is removed, I still see them (not that they are OP, but they were compensation for tank and since tank is no more... Makes you think, no?)

[Simo94]

snip

dont let it get to you man, thats the joke, Xenos are specifically saying ''why are tallhosts so bad?'' now because they heard it so much the last 4 months or so, marines never won a round without someone saying in OOC ''lmao xenos shit the bed with this one''.

[kastion]

Let's totally forget years of "75%-25%" winrates for xenos policy. Marines didn't had to deal with this for 6 months. How could xenos survive 50-50, or 40-60 for 6 whole months? That had to be horrible. I don't know how those brave heroes did that. It's masochistic? They are true martyrs, never having the "high ground" over marines, never ever. Untill mutators... Marines finally walked a mile in benomorphmain's shoes, ah!

Let's totally forget current state of boiler gas that is capable of killing a marine on direct hit if he is sligthy wounded (and it's not that hard to hit marine, when whole squad rushes), gas that is capable of killing you without chances to survive if you happened to be lying on the floor for reasons like spit stun, acid stun, screech stun, evading HEFA's and such.
Also Rav RNG should be forgotten that is capable of decapitation, but this is less realiable.

"Many buffs to their armaments", yet marine's guns are still garbage. Nearly every gun that is lying in the colony is better than standard issue shit. Only Buckshot (as an ammunition that doesn't require Req visit, or Spec/Medic/Engi/SL vendor points) was doing the job right as high risk and high reward weapon. And guess what? Preatorian buffs, two-three acid spits and you are critted. You are not even safe behind cades, unlike xenos, becouse bullets like to hit the cades 90% more times that spits does.

From the rounds I played with mutator: I could see OP shit at the first glance and even before I was concerned with castes that specialise in something, to buff it more (Rav DMG, Defeder Armor). Those concerns were viable. Standard weed still requiring two hits is still a chore to deal with. One hit is barely reasonable, since every drone can just shit out node under stray of bullets like he could during sunday morning on stroll in the park.

In the end: It's not like before that "six months" period, gameplay was not in great favour for xenos. Look: Tank was added alongside defender and warrior. Tank is removed, I still see them (not that they are OP, but they were compensation for tank and since tank is no more... Makes you think, no?)

Git gud

[CABAL]

Git gud

EZ... Only one layer of cades? Why tallhosts are that stupid?

[kastion]

im going 3 health upgrades as a runner lets see if i can survive a pb buckshot

edit : survived a claymore as an elder runner with 2health upgrades put me in crit
never got to get PB'd marines too bad, lost too fast for me to get ancient.

[Trevoriousdafox]

Love getting surrounded by packs of T-3s ravs with the speed of a elder runner on frenzy and the armor of a mature defender. Also getting literally perma neuro stunned by a mature prae is great. Oh ye, an warriors with runner speed flinging marines nonstop. God Marines Suck, amiright?

[MattAtlas]

Love getting surrounded by packs of T-3s ravs with the speed of a elder runner on frenzy and the armor of a mature defender. Also getting literally perma neuro stunned by a mature prae is great. Oh ye, an warriors with runner speed flinging marines nonstop. God Marines Suck, amiright?

hmm today i will salt in a thread meant for constructive feedback instead of responding to the devs in an intelligent manner so that they may balance the game

good job ellie weaver

[Avalanchee]

~shy and quiet~

[Trevoriousdafox]

hmm today i will salt in a thread meant for constructive feedback instead of responding to the devs in an intelligent manner so that they may balance the game

good job ellie weaver

Sorry just telling how I feel, this has happened every round. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Best way to fix is to remove it, till it gets balanced enough to actually be fair and playable for both sides, imo at least.

Also, for the record. I meant no bad intent with my first post. Just is getting frustratingly old fast.

[TrollerNoob]

How are you going to tell when something is balanced if you remove it entirely..? That makes 0 sense, it's why they implement and tweak it as it's testing, aka warrior debut and tank. This also helps with finding out any bug fixes.

[AkaBinxstar]

At the day, when marines start winning again, We are just going to come out better.

[Trevoriousdafox]

That's very true Troller. To be honest I actually really do like the concept of the mutations update. It does make xenos much more fun to play. But it makes marines very unfun, at least as of right now in its current state. I'm not trashing the staff or devs for the update either like a lotta people are. I really admire the work you all put in to the game for us. All I was trying to say was maybe remove it from regular rounds and run more test rounds. But I have faith it'll get balanced eventually either way, just gotta adapt I guess for now.

[kastion]

the real problem is the amount of xenos not the mutations. They need to half the monkeys so that there arent so many xenos and then see whats up.

[KennyTGuy]

the real problem is the amount of xenos not the mutations. They need to half the monkeys so that there arent so many xenos and then see whats up.

Are we still having the same problem of everyone wanting to play xeno with mutations so marines get overwhelmed with all the observers participating? Or has that kind of died down now?

[TrollerNoob]

It's only been about 1-2 days since the update has been implemented, obviously there's going to be a lot of benos because there's a lot of players wanting to test out the update.

That is NOT a balance concern, it'll happen with any update in any game, which will sort itself out in a couple of days

[Sleepy Retard]

The current iteration does not make xenos more fun to play, it does not change their gameplay.

Nothing fun has changed, you just slash harder, or run faster. Fundamentally, the update is uninspired, unfun, and lame. Balance wise, it is whack, but xenos are not more fun to play.