TFW playing Xeno after a few days

[Toroic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAgnJDJN4VA&app=desktop

[YungCuz]

I can tell your glad to be back.

[Renomaki]

So, what was it like being on the other side of the fence? Now that you got to dabble on the human side, what are your opinions on how xenos are balanced compared to marines, and how did your knowledge of xenos helped you kill more alien scum?

[Toroic]

So, what was it like being on the other side of the fence? Now that you got to dabble on the human side, what are your opinions on how xenos are balanced compared to marines, and how did your knowledge of xenos helped you kill more alien scum?

So, what was it like being on the other side of the fence?

I only played as a standard as I wanted to be able to experience what a typical marine life was like and see what combat was like from a marine perspective. I definitely had less impact on the game than usual, but was able to be part of a marine major where I survived. So far, none of the rounds had me be successfully infected and nested. Either I was killed outright or succumbed to my wounds.

It gave me a lot of sympathy for the average marine on the ground. Regular shipments of helmets is massively helpful but also not standard strategy, medbay is slow and inefficient (I've played doc before, I know how much time surgery should generally take and it was sloooooow.)

Many commanders seem to be upset by the relative rarity of marines following orders, but very often those orders are terrible. In every round I played marines basically threw away an entire squad because when they were sent to "scout the river" they got into conflict with 1:1 marine:xeno numbers which never ends well for the marines. Scouting is fine, but falling back is underutilized.

There was quite a bit of griefing and incompetence. I got shot in the head in briefing, the SM failed, we had several incompetent engineers and specs. Marines don't have any sort of merit system the way xenos do, where competence is rewarded with additional power, power is given at roundstart and generally poorly distributed.


Now that you got to dabble on the human side, what are your opinions on how xenos are balanced compared to marines,

Both marines and xenos dramatically underutilize their resources. Xenos lose many oppurtunities for the relatively powerful ancient runners, as well as T2 and T3 slots to young runners going and getting themselves killed constantly. However, as Xeno power tends to be consolidated in the hands of a few generally robust players, 2-3 skilled xenos have an easier time carrying the team. Marine SADAR specialists can form a similar function, but that relies on luck at roundstart. If marines have no SADAR and unrobust specs I think they are very likely to lose the round.

Xenos tend to be very reliable with dragging downed xenos to safety, or at least attempting to do so. Marines regularly don't drag each other to safety, and don't take off huggers nearly as quickly as they should, leading to many unnecessary infections. Medics are also super important to marines being able to continue to fight, as the slowdown from pain is dramatic. Again, competence varies wildly, and having a medibot made per squad drastically improved survival and should be standard practice.


and how did your knowledge of xenos helped you kill more alien scum?

I spent a lot of time doing the tedious task of clearing out weeds, and especially killing the nodes shortly after they were planted before they could spread. Fighting on weeds gives xeno constant health regeneration, better movespeed, and can more freely use their special abilities. They also slow marines down, so clearing them should be done constantly and marines should avoid fighting on weeds whenever possible. Once I was doing it others did it too, and it made life a lot easier. I've fought marines as a xeno in heavily weeded areas and it's just easy.

I also knew how fragile crushers are early, and that they're vulnerable after whiffing their stomp. Killed several of them in a squad simply by rushing them after the stomp ended, putting a clip into their side while they tried to flee.

[Renomaki]

I had not expected such detailed replies to my humble questions, and am quite satisfied with the response.

Being a xeno, in some ways, is a lot simpler. No need for medics, supply drops, or even ensuring you have enough staff to ensure a proper running hive. As long as you got a queen and a brain, you'll do decently enough. If only it was that easy as a marine, eh?

I think, in a way, you could argue that humans have a higher learning curve than xenos. I remember my first time as xeno, I was forced into the role of a queen.. Mind you, I was really new to the server, and still managed to lead my hive to glory and survive to the end. Sure, you might need a moment to familiarize yourself with how certain castes work, but compared to marines, it seems a lot easier to understand [most] caste types and perform adequately enough. Does it take time to get GOOD as a xeno? Certainly, but for players who are somewhat new to xenos and have a decent understanding of survival and tactics, they should adapt easily enough as I had.

Marines, on the other hand, have a lot of things to think about, all these different jobs, how to handle certain situations (such as what to do if a marine gets hugged in the middle of a fight), all manner of different weapons to try and learn, how certain chems affect the body, etc etc etc. Now that I think of it, it isn't too much of a surprise as to why it seems marines struggle so often, while xenos seem to learn quicker. The more on your plate, the harder it is to swallow, and from playing both sides, I believe the marines get a much heftier plate of learning they need to chug on down in order to have a fighting chance.

[Toroic]

I had not expected such detailed replies to my humble questions, and am quite satisfied with the response.

-snip-

You make some great points, and you're right about marines having a greater degree of interdependence.

However, I think where xenos make up a great deal of difficulty is in macro use and the potential for being in many fights throughout the round. In terms of difficulty, complexity, and impact on the round I'd order things like this:

1) Queen
2) Marine command staff
3) Tier 3 xenos/Squad Leaders
4) Specialists/T2 Xenos
5) Doctors/Medics/T1 xenos minus young runners
6) Standard Marines
7) Young Runners

Queen is the hardest because she builds, produces resources, commands xeno team, and is a powerful combat unit in her own right. Marines tend to fall below her and above young runners.

I almost always play a T3 xeno, and in some games I'm in every major skirmish over the course of 3 hours. Not making a fatal mistake as a crusher is probably easier than other castes, but still difficult for that long (most crushers die young)

I'm more than happy to continue to discuss this indefinitely though.

[Renomaki]

For me, I think the queen is much easier than command staff, mainly because she is all of them rolled into one, who also can dabble as an engineer should it be needed, and can put up a good scuffle as well if need be. Yes, it is stressful being the ONLY one leading the hive, but at the same time, having an easier to understand command structure (Obey or die) does ease the burden somewhat, and since all you need is a drone to replace the queen should she die, it isn't as crippling leadership-wise [although combat wise, it is quite harsh].

As for command staff... Lets take a queen. Now, imagine the queen, rather than starting out whole, comes in pieces. You got the commander for a head, the XO being the body, and the BOs being all her limbs. Now imagine how effective the queen would be if she spawned into the world without a head on her shoulders, or missing an arm or leg, or both.. Maybe she came all put together, but as the round moves along, her limbs kinda plink off, making her weaker and weaker the longer the round goes on because her limbs somehow got SSD, or maybe the only workings parts on her be her arms, just dragging along a lifeless body of a queen around while attempting to lead the hive the best it could.

That is what it is kinda like oftentimes for marines. I played a lot of marines, and very often I had a lot of rounds where we always lacked some command staff of some sort. And even if you had all the pieces, they aren't all going to stick around forever, people are gonna get bored, they gonna cryo, and then you are gonna have to work harder with less, hence why I believe the whole "queen in pieces" thing is a good way to describe human command.

I myself dabbled in all manner of marine roles. Grunt, medic, engineer, spec, SL, CE, MT, CT MP, Doctor, Researcher, BO, XO, CO, CL, and even survivor as well. I experienced it from all sorts of angles, and came across all kinds of shit as a humie, both on the ground and on deck. I might not be the best, but I'm well traveled. Seeing as much as possible allows you to get a better view of the problems marines and xenos often deal with, marines most of all, because they have a lotta problems that cause salt.. Although honestly, a lot of them could be easily fixed if people had more patience and didn't resort to slapping ducktape on things that aren't broken.