Best Xeno Comeback 2016

[Tetsukiba]

They were just down to six aliens, and on their 3rd Queen. Wiped out 30 Marines. Alien Major Victory....

[YungCuz]

Damn son

[Warnipple]

Shots fired

[ZDashe]

Pew pew~

Anyway it was a great round for me. Managed to survive since round start, got slashed by the crusher/hunter combo and went blind, left for dead... captured and swallowed by a sentinel.. marine kills it and I burst out and left for dead again... Dragged and nested by boiler.. got saved by a medic, and had a final showdown on Sulaco... Finally got my ass handed to me by the Crusher's stomp again.

Gee Gee.

[Tetsukiba]

ZDashe I was the boiler that danced on your little body. Best emote: "Thanks Partner for saving me...I'm blind!" xD

[Infant Punter]

end my existance
i just wanted to build fucking walls man

[hawkshot86]

Except it wasn't cause the power game was real. Literally turtled for four hours in single tile tunnels....

So while it was fun for the 2 admins everyone else was dying of boredom.

So... GG? Faith in admins shaken and the whole game left a really bad taste in my mouth... So grats on the win.

[Godzillan]

Wait how was there the power game? I ask because all I saw of that round was the last 10-15 minutes in which the queen died and then the crusher tanked a bunch of bullets, maybe there was something before that I was missing?

[hawkshot86]

Wait how was there the power game? I ask because all I saw of that round was the last 10-15 minutes in which the queen died and then the crusher tanked a bunch of bullets, maybe there was something before that I was missing?

First let me say that I don't play CM to win, my favorite round was the one where I got beat down by a predator in hand to hand combat, and the last stand moments are always awesome. What upsets me is when the magic/immersion is broken. And when people do it for something petty like winning a round is just awful in my book. When Toroic killed me that round I was laughing my ass off... Until I saw what Toroic's base was (cause it was his base, not the queens).

So I'm gonna try and just explain why people were upset, in an unbiased way (I'm not here to call the aliens names or anything like that), I just want to explain why marines were so bitter.

So their entire base was built for and around toroic's crusher. They had resin walls that were at LEAST 30x30 (someone counted) and they had tunnels that were one tile wide so the crusher could just run down them and marines couldn't advance/shoot up them. Their base was something that took the entire game to make, so it was definitely pre planned and not reactive to a new emerging threat. They basically just turtled in an unbeatable hive until they were ancient, which is why the crusher wasn't dying when you saw him on the sully.

I don't care that the aliens won, I never care who wins. What made me salty was that their entire strategy was "toroic's crusher" which is, in my opinion, meta cause you aren't suppose to know who is playing the crusher. It has to prove it's robust. Their strategy was the same as turtling on the sully, something that delayed the round for hours and garanteed an alien victory, something that didn't make any sense behavior wise for aliens to do and something that the very people playing the aliens would have banned marines for doing. Instead they get to celebrate how awesome they are for making a comeback...

The power gaming was the hive and the turtle for 4 hours, and the fact that 2 admins did it makes it worse. They literally bent the rules to their advantage and used their ooc knowledge, aliens would never sit and wait to grow up/die of old age and they would certainly not design the hive for the crusher, they're suppose to always listen to the will of the queen, not the will of the crusher.

The salt from a lot of marine players was that it is literally against the rules for marines to do the equivalent of this strategy, which would be turtling the sully (delays the round, ensures marine win) but the ADMINS just did exactly that (turtled, delayed, ensure victory). The only approach I could think of beating their hive was to turtle and wait for them to come out, which the admins would not allow (only 4 aliens left), which being admins themselves they were completely aware of. It sets a bad example, and bragging about it on the forums is worse... You guys upset a lot of your players that game, a lot of them regulars, who trusted you.

So that's why I was salty/upset. It seemed like a really cheesy strategy and it was a boring game to watch. It was literally a crusher just sitting still in a chokepoint waiting for a marine to step too close. Hopefully I don't offend anyone, that wasn't my intent with this. Just want to point out that a lot of players were really upset by this, and a lot of them lost a bit of the CM magic that game.

[Toroic]

Except it wasn't cause the power game was real. Literally turtled for four hours in single tile tunnels....

So while it was fun for the 2 admins everyone else was dying of boredom.

So... GG? Faith in admins shaken and the whole game left a really bad taste in my mouth... So grats on the win.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but that isn't a fair way to portray the events of the round.

It was a late round, 11pm US central, and it was going to be relatively lowpop. It quickly became apparent that the queen was inexperienced, as she decided to gather monkies and lay eggs outside the caves. I suggested that they build inside the caves instead, as rock walls are stronger than resin, but the queen did not listen. Once we had contact with marines I moved probably 20 larva from outside the caves into the caves, and crushed a hidden tunnel through rock to hide the many, many ssd larva in.

Meanwhile, the hivelord was building his trumpmeme wall, and we lost some xenos to rambo and others in a SADAR assault, while a drone on the sulaco caused trouble and then got themselves lost in space. Around this time I crushed a tunnel from the NW caves to the W caves that I intended to use for defense. I was a mature crusher at this point.

We evolved a second queen who quickly laid many eggs (still had many SSD larva) and fought an assualt of about 12 marines. An elite hunter who was killing marines outside the hive died around this time, and our second queen died to SADAR. We had a boiler evolve that helped injure and kill several marines. We gave ground, losing a massive egg field to marines and flamers. Hivelord and I fell back to the west 1 tile tunnel I had made, and we ended up hugging/killing enough to make the marines fall back, and I crushed a west/east tunnel on the west edge of the map and worked to join them from the south.

At some point marines came in through the northwest caves and picked off the boiler, and the hivelord and I along with a hunter fought marines pretty much everywhere in and around the western caves. I hugged some, killed others and tried to not have to fall back to the 1 tile tunnel to preserve our egg supplies. At no point were we avoiding fighting, at no point were we out of huggers and larva, and at no point did we stop capturing and infecting marines in the hope of getting numbers for an assault, at one point marines set up a turret and used a cleaner grenade, but lost the turret and died.

Deadchat was at various points either complaining or being surprised, to discussing how to kill crushers and I mentioned that I wrote a guide on the forums on how to kill them. What they didn't do is fill ssd larva that existed for the first 3 hours of the round. (I probably missed some fights, there were so many)

It was requested that the round be sped up, and an admin set the 6 currently infected hosts to burst soon, and those 6 xenos pushed through robotics, corp, coms, and the nexus as we evolved our third and final queen. We got attacked by about 6 marines who attacked from the drop pod, infecting 2 and killing the rest, and then called and took the dropship.

Dropship went up, I upgraded to ancient crusher, and ran into 20-25 marines still on the sulaco. We retreated east while getting blasted with grenades and bullets, all of the xenos nearly dying, with the third queen fully dying. I used the long tunnels to take out a few marines, and along with a robust hunter and runner pushed back west and took the central ladders. We got attacked by marines from the east and west, and I think ran into dutch's dozen

Eventually we pushed to take medbay and lost our runner, but ultimately ended up with a xeno major with 3 xenos remaining. Dsay was full of salt so Apop blew us up with bluespace missles after round end.

Does that sound like all we did was hide and turtle?

I wasn't eating corpses, and I know A number of Marines were cloned.

We did not leave the hive because we could not leave the hive for most of the game. We did not have the numbers to assault, and it felt like every 10 minutes we were having to defend the egg supplies. When I tried to push I quickly got chased off by a squad of marines and heavily injured. We didn't hide, marines knew exactly where we were.


The moment we had the numbers to push, I pushed hard and did not stop. It's not bad manners to use the tools a caste is given to survive, or to try to win a winnable game. Marines repeatedly assaulted, and repeatedly failed to finish the hive out even when we fought in open spaces.

In the past I've let myself be killed to end the round faster, but I consider that to be disrespectful to marines who are still alive, that they aren't worth the effort to play at my best.

Last night I put in the effort, and xenos ended up winning but there were a dozen fights where a few bullets or slugs not being deflected would've meant a swift marine major.

I wanted to see if I could pull xeno team back from the brink with a few other robust xeno players, but mentally it was exhausting, I stayed up far later than I intended, and was saddened by the expectation that I should give up on the other people on my team simply because things were looking grim.


EDIT: Working on a reply to latest post.

[hawkshot86]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but that isn't a fair way to portray the events of the round.

It was a late round, 11pm US central, and it was going to be relatively lowpop. It quickly became apparent that the queen was inexperienced, as she decided to gather monkies and lay eggs outside the caves. I suggested that they build inside the caves instead, as rock walls are stronger than resin, but the queen did not listen. Once we had contact with marines I moved probably 20 larva from outside the caves into the caves, and crushed a hidden tunnel through rock to hide the many, many ssd larva in.

Meanwhile, the hivelord was building his trumpmeme wall, and we lost some xenos to rambo and others in a SADAR assault, while a drone on the sulaco caused trouble and then got themselves lost in space. Around this time I crushed a tunnel from the NW caves to the W caves that I intended to use for defense. I was a mature crusher at this point.

We evolved a second queen who quickly laid many eggs (still had many SSD larva) and fought an assualt of about 12 marines. An elite hunter who was killing marines outside the hive died around this time, and our second queen died to SADAR. We had a boiler evolve that helped injure and kill several marines. We gave ground, losing a massive egg field to marines and flamers. Hivelord and I fell back to the west 1 tile tunnel I had made, and we ended up hugging/killing enough to make the marines fall back, and I crushed a west/east tunnel on the west edge of the map and worked to join them from the south.

At some point marines came in through the northwest caves and picked off the boiler, and the hivelord and I along with a hunter fought marines pretty much everywhere in and around the western caves. I hugged some, killed others and tried to not have to fall back to the 1 tile tunnel to preserve our egg supplies. At no point were we avoiding fighting, at no point were we out of huggers and larva, and at no point did we stop capturing and infecting marines in the hope of getting numbers for an assault, at one point marines set up a turret and used a cleaner grenade, but lost the turret and died.

Deadchat was at various points either complaining or being surprised, to discussing how to kill crushers and I mentioned that I wrote a guide on the forums on how to kill them. What they didn't do is fill ssd larva that existed for the first 3 hours of the round. (I probably missed some fights, there were so many)

It was requested that the round be sped up, and an admin set the 6 currently infected hosts to burst soon, and those 6 xenos pushed through robotics, corp, coms, and the nexus as we evolved our third and final queen. We got attacked by about 6 marines who attacked from the drop pod, infecting 2 and killing the rest, and then called and took the dropship.

Dropship went up, I upgraded to ancient crusher, and ran into 20-25 marines still on the sulaco. We retreated east while getting blasted with grenades and bullets, all of the xenos nearly dying, with the third queen fully dying. I used the long tunnels to take out a few marines, and along with a robust hunter and runner pushed back west and took the central ladders. We got attacked by marines from the east and west, and I think ran into dutch's dozen

Eventually we pushed to take medbay and lost our runner, but ultimately ended up with a xeno major with 3 xenos remaining. Dsay was full of salt so Apop blew us up with bluespace missles after round end.

Does that sound like all we did was hide and turtle?

I wasn't eating corpses, and I know A number of Marines were cloned.

We did not leave the hive because we could not leave the hive for most of the game. We did not have the numbers to assault, and it felt like every 10 minutes we were having to defend the egg supplies. When I tried to push I quickly got chased off by a squad of marines and heavily injured. We didn't hide, marines knew exactly where we were.


The moment we had the numbers to push, I pushed hard and did not stop. It's not bad manners to use the tools a caste is given to survive, or to try to win a winnable game. Marines repeatedly assaulted, and repeatedly failed to finish the hive out even when we fought in open spaces.

In the past I've let myself be killed to end the round faster, but I consider that to be disrespectful to marines who are still alive, that they aren't worth the effort to play at my best.

Last night I put in the effort, and xenos ended up winning but there were a dozen fights where a few bullets or slugs not being deflected would've meant a swift marine major.

I wanted to see if I could pull xeno team back from the brink with a few other robust xeno players, but mentally it was exhausting, I stayed up far later than I intended, and was saddened by the expectation that I should give up on the other people on my team simply because things were looking grim.


EDIT: Working on a reply to latest post.

A number of us have read your guide toroic, the problem people had was that while you were fighting off handfuls of marines, you did it from some pretty unfair defenses, the 1 tile tunnel being one of them. You made it impossible for your very guide to be applied, and then blamed marines for not knowing how to kill a crusher.

I will apologize for the post last night, I was still salty and seeing the post on the forum about the best comeback set me off.

So I am sorry. But you gotta credit that you did turtle, you guys never stepped outside the walls, and marines were not happy, something that as an admin you should consider very carefully. Cause people being unhappy generally leads them to play something else, which means CM dies. Which none of us here want.

So in my opinion it wasn't a good round, it was boring and uneventful for the majority of players and a lot of people were upset.

Also speed up the round in xeno favor when xenos are losing? How is that fair?

[Toroic]

First let me say that I don't play CM to win, my favorite round was the one where I got beat down by a predator in hand to hand combat, and the last stand moments are always awesome. What upsets me is when the magic/immersion is broken. And when people do it for something petty like winning a round is just awful in my book. When Toroic killed me that round I was laughing my ass off... Until I saw what Toroic's base was (cause it was his base, not the queens).

So I'm gonna try and just explain why people were upset, in an unbiased way (I'm not here to call the aliens names or anything like that), I just want to explain why marines were so bitter.

So their entire base was built for and around toroic's crusher. They had resin walls that were at LEAST 30x30 (someone counted) and they had tunnels that were one tile wide so the crusher could just run down them and marines couldn't advance/shoot up them. Their base was something that took the entire game to make, so it was definitely pre planned and not reactive to a new emerging threat. They basically just turtled in an unbeatable hive until they were ancient, which is why the crusher wasn't dying when you saw him on the sully.

As far as it being my base and not the queen's, the first queen had built her base outside the caves, which rapidly became contested territory that was generally unfavorable to fight in. We didn't really begin to fortify inside until after the first queen died, so it was a blank slate until the basic structure was in place (and as I was the only surviving T3 other than the hivelord, I was essentially on top of the xeno command structure.

The xenos that we had alive for the majority of the game were a crusher and a hivelord, so the base developed to reflect that. I as a crusher had made the 1 tile wide myself which is just me using the caste abilities to create terrain favorable to my caste. I don't think that can properly be called any sort of metagaming. This wasn't something that was pre-planned (and honestly the hivelord just wanted to be a trumplord and build a giant wall to begin with, and probably would've been willing to suicide rush if I showed any willingness to do so.)

The throught process was:

1) I need a place to hide the larva because if marines push into the poorly defended caves and find them, all hope is lost

2) Hiding them in a secret tunnel would be cool

3) If I build a tunnel from the SW caves to the NW caves (That area is shaped like a backwards C) then I'd have a way to flank and also an area I can easily defend as a crusher.

I don't care that the aliens won, I never care who wins. What made me salty was that their entire strategy was "toroic's crusher" which is, in my opinion, meta cause you aren't suppose to know who is playing the crusher. It has to prove it's robust.

It is pretty common that people OOC know it is me playing crusher just from watching me play, as I am a fairly visible member of the community and almost only play crusher. It's a bit of a double standard to apply that to xenos as marines have static names and definitely treat well-known marines differently based on their reputation.

Their strategy was the same as turtling on the sully, something that delayed the round for hours and guaranteed an alien victory, something that didn't make any sense behavior wise for aliens to do and something that the very people playing the aliens would have banned marines for doing. Instead they get to celebrate how awesome they are for making a comeback...

The difference with turtling on the sully and the position we found ourselves in is that we lacked the strength to go on the aggressive. Defensive fortifications allow a smaller, weaker force to hold off a larger more powerful one, that is their purpose. We were strong enough to survive but not strong enough to go on offense until the end, where I immediately started pushing up. Turtling on the sully is typically more than enough marines to launch an attack but refusing to do so. I can also tell you that at no point was the victory guaranteed, and we were nearly wiped out after landing on the Sulaco. Queen was dead, runner was in crit, I was at 10% health, and the hivelord was injured and out of plasma.

As far as celebrating, I found the round personally to be mentally and emotionally exhausting to try to keep xeno team from giving up, and for the sheer length of the match. I probably would not do the same thing again if I had the choice. The hivelord absolutely wouldn't go through that again.

The power gaming was the hive and the turtle for 4 hours, and the fact that 2 admins did it makes it worse. They literally bent the rules to their advantage and used their ooc knowledge, aliens would never sit and wait to grow up/die of old age and they would certainly not design the hive for the crusher, they're suppose to always listen to the will of the queen, not the will of the crusher.

I covered above that we simply did not have the strength to push out of the hive with the frequent attacks from marines. It would've just lead to us 100% getting slaughtered to try to fight squads off weeds and outside of the fortifications.

From an RP perspective, I think it is completely natural for xenos to guard the hive, eggs, and larva when they're not strong enough to push out and hope the attacker gives up. As far as the hive design, for much of its construction the queen was dead and for xeno offense we had a hunter and a crusher. Also, I am not an admin, but a lowly trialmod. The other staff wasn't an admin either.

The salt from a lot of marine players was that it is literally against the rules for marines to do the equivalent of this strategy, which would be turtling the sully (delays the round, ensures marine win) but the ADMINS just did exactly that (turtled, delayed, ensure victory). The only approach I could think of beating their hive was to turtle and wait for them to come out, which the admins would not allow (only 4 aliens left), which being admins themselves they were completely aware of. It sets a bad example, and bragging about it on the forums is worse... You guys upset a lot of your players that game, a lot of them regulars, who trusted you.

So that's why I was salty/upset. It seemed like a really cheesy strategy and it was a boring game to watch. It was literally a crusher just sitting still in a chokepoint waiting for a marine to step too close. Hopefully I don't offend anyone, that wasn't my intent with this. Just want to point out that a lot of players were really upset by this, and a lot of them lost a bit of the CM magic that game.

The best strategy that marines could've done to beat what we were doing is to clear out weeds, and to mine out the rock tunnel we were using for what felt like a last stand.

The only reason I tried to hold out was because we still had huggers and a hivelord to build nests, so we had the potential to get a new queen, build up a few xenos, and push back. Unfortunately we suffered some key losses (hunter 115, boiler 440, the second queen) and combined with several rambo xenos dying, the rest were were stuck in limbo for hours where we hovered around 3-5 xenos. If we had been able to get a few xenos together we would've made a push much, much earlier.

I also have not been bragging on the forums, and I only replied to this thread because you seemed upset, and worse, hurt about it. Losing trust in staff is another concern I take very seriously, and in that game I acted wholly as a player who wanted to do their best, not as a staff member who puts entertaining and non-stagnant rounds first. For that I apologize.

A number of us have read your guide toroic, the problem people had was that while you were fighting off handfuls of marines, you did it from some pretty unfair defenses, the 1 tile tunnel being one of them. You made it impossible for your very guide to be applied, and then blamed marines for not knowing how to kill a crusher.

I don't blame marines for not knowing how to kill a crusher, though many of them wasting frag grenades on me demonstrates they don't understand the material in my guide. I don't have an answer for how people can easily kill me, I have a lot of experience as crusher and spend a lot of time thinking about CM tactics. It's natural for me to want to minimize the effectiveness of crusher counters, as everyone works to minimize the weaknesses of the character they play.

-snip-

But you gotta credit that you did turtle, you guys never stepped outside the walls, and marines were not happy, something that as an admin you should consider very carefully. Cause people being unhappy generally leads them to play something else, which means CM dies. Which none of us here want.

So in my opinion it wasn't a good round, it was boring and uneventful for the majority of players and a lot of people were upset.

We turtled because the only other choice was a suicide rush, with a strategy (taking infected hosts for larva) that was meant to allow us to stop turtling and go on the offense. Had the xenos not ramboed, or the second queen survived, we would've been able to go on offense earlier, and everyone (including myself) would've been much happier. While the round was much longer than I would've liked, it's not uncommon to have 4+ hour rounds of CM if both marines and xenos are replacing the numbers they lose.

Also speed up the round in xeno favor when xenos are losing? How is that fair?

Given the general unhappiness of the observers, admins needed to do something to move the round along, and speeding up the gestation of the larva xenos already had (giving us some T1, only 1 of which ended up surviving anyway) meant we had no reason not to push. Marines also got a boost to their numbers in the form of an anti-xeno ERT (which let's keep in mind, are not owed to marines every round). The general thing was encouraging both sides to push and end it with reinforcements, and it was a successful strategy.

It was selfish of me to not simply give up and let the marines win after the second queen died, but as someone who tries really hard to play crusher as robustly as possible, I hope you can understand why at that point I saw trying to keep trying to fight as an exciting challenge at first. By the time it became exhausting to continue, and people were angry, I had already invested significant time and effort and wasn't willing to throw it away, I wanted to prove that it could be done.


I know that's been a lot of writing, but want you to understand what I was thinking and why I took the actions I took.

[Infant Punter]

Now that I'm actually conscious, compared to my 5am post this morning.

Entirely honest, my schtick from the start of that round was, "I'm gonna build walls."

And I did.

At the start, it wasn't preplanned for any strat. I made huge walls that would piss off marines.

Though, after basically all the aliens died outside of my walls, it turned into... whatever mess of a round we could say that was.

The closest strategy you could say I used was pheremones, WALLS, and sticky resin.

Unfortunately, admin logs don't record hivemind that well, so I can't pull a log of one of the many times I said something like "IT'S GONNA BE A HUGE WALL, I'M GONNA SECURE OUR BORDERS", but you'll just have to give me the benefit of the doubt on that one that I really just wanted a passive 2am alien role.

[hawkshot86]

As far as it being my base and not the queen's, the first queen had built her base outside the caves, which rapidly became contested territory that was generally unfavorable to fight in. We didn't really begin to fortify inside until after the first queen died, so it was a blank slate until the basic structure was in place (and as I was the only surviving T3 other than the hivelord, I was essentially on top of the xeno command structure.

The xenos that we had alive for the majority of the game were a crusher and a hivelord, so the base developed to reflect that. I as a crusher had made the 1 tile wide myself which is just me using the caste abilities to create terrain favorable to my caste. I don't think that can properly be called any sort of metagaming. This wasn't something that was pre-planned (and honestly the hivelord just wanted to be a trumplord and build a giant wall to begin with, and probably would've been willing to suicide rush if I showed any willingness to do so.)

The throught process was:

1) I need a place to hide the larva because if marines push into the poorly defended caves and find them, all hope is lost

2) Hiding them in a secret tunnel would be cool

3) If I build a tunnel from the SW caves to the NW caves (That area is shaped like a backwards C) then I'd have a way to flank and also an area I can easily defend as a crusher.

...

I know that's been a lot of writing, but want you to understand what I was thinking and why I took the actions I took.

Well first thanks for taking the time to explain. I spent most of the round building up medical as an FoB, so I didn't see much of the early game fighting. So I admit to some ignorance and assumption on my part, and was going off of some of the saltier members in dead chat, who were also the only ones explaining things unfortunately. Saltiest tends to be loudest.

I didn't realize you guys lost so many queens and xenos early game, which explains a lot more the base design. And the trump wall was awful. That's really all.

So thanks for explaining the round to me, didn't realize how much of a struggle you guys were having, comms weren't clear on marines side as usual lol I feel a lot better about the round, sorry for the over reaction and thanks for taking the time to explain, do appreciate it a lot.

[ZDashe]

Well as a Marine who's been from the start to the end in that round, Xenos were on the backfoot for most of the early to mid-game, and they were pushed back quite hard into NW caves, probably forcing them to be rather defensive. I was on the frontlines whenever I was on the ground (except during my 3 surgeries), and when I was engaging the Crusher I knew it had to be Toroic because of how the Crusher is being played, and not due to any OOC knowledge.

Next time if you play as marine and ever face off against a Crusher who:
1. Defends his squishier fellow Xenos
2. Moonwalks
3. Utilizes good terrain and tactics for ramming
4. Topples defences easily
5. Clear minefields actively
6. Does not take uncalculated risks (well he does sometimes, but most of the time miraculously survives anyway =P)

You'll learn that, that Crusher is very likely to be Toroic, one of the very few players who knows how to utilize the Crusher to its max potential.

[Renomaki]

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that, if you had a chance to replay this round... How would you play it then?

Whenever I fuck up, I don't go blaming my enemy for my failure, but more myself, because a lot of my deaths were more due to unfortunate events that could have been altered had I been in a different tile at a different time.

Things like "I shouldn't have used AP if I was going to end up FFing my SL" or "I really should have brought a buddy with me while laying landmines" always come to mind when I get wrecked or fuck up, which makes me feel bad because I knew it could have been avoided. But in the end, it becomes a learning experience to harden marines and help them survive all the better.

In this case, if the marines could have replayed this, I bet they coulda handled it a bit better and secured that win. Maybe not quite how Toroic might have imagined it, but they probably would have done things differently. The way it was described made me think that the marines could have done a number of different things to deal with it, but I assume the reason they didn't was because they were tired and grumpy after a long battle (or got cocky, another big killer for marines).

So, next time you die in a manner that seems bollocks, instead of getting salty and accusing people of playing dirty, ask yourself how you coulda handled that situation better and apply it next time, SHOULD it happen again. Again, learning is half the battle.

[Tetsukiba]

Well first thanks for taking the time to explain. I spent most of the round building up medical as an FoB, so I didn't see much of the early game fighting. So I admit to some ignorance and assumption on my part, and was going off of some of the saltier members in dead chat, who were also the only ones explaining things unfortunately. Saltiest tends to be loudest.

I didn't realize you guys lost so many queens and xenos early game, which explains a lot more the base design. And the trump wall was awful. That's really all.

So thanks for explaining the round to me, didn't realize how much of a struggle you guys were having, comms weren't clear on marines side as usual lol I feel a lot better about the round, sorry for the over reaction and thanks for taking the time to explain, do appreciate it a lot.

Thank you for taking the time to understand the complete bind we were actually in. There were alot of tatics on both ends that couldve been viewed as unfair, but because it is viewed as unfair it should be seen as superior strategy. Firstly, I would like to take the time to apologize for this post. This post intent was not to incite any animosity or bad feelings against the administration or fellow players. The sole purpose was to bring light humor and recognition of the amount of hard work that went into the victory. Doing what we did was no piece of cake, what so ever. To constantly have to replace defenses while handling an onslaugt from the multitude of frontline marines and rambo marines, was extremely difficult at best.

To give another perspective on the battle field. The marines were doing extremely well and did not let up. I was chosen to be the boiler and died three times as a spitter before I could reach boiler status( just to show you what we were dealing with) the queen literally stated that she felt like it was the end and that we were finished. I finally made boiler and assisted the crusher and hivelord with artillery shots at the front line. LITERALLY not even an entire 10 minutes later, the marines left the frontline and things had seemed to quiet down. I captured a poor blind guy who didnt even know he was being dragged by a boiler. A rambo squad of of 3-4 marines came from the NE and took me out, saving the blind marine from certain capture and infection. That my friends, is the type of opposing strategy we had to deal with. The marines, DID not, if but only for a short moment, let up with their assault causing the aliens to be on the defensive within the hive. There is no way we could have left the caves with marines planetside, that was certain suicide. Hope at one point was lost, instict to survive is natural. That is why I labled this round as one of the best Comebacks. The admins through the, "M.O.T.H.E.R." system expressed that there were only 3-4 aliens left and 20-30 friendlies. Yet the marines left their posistion and retreated. It was a great end to the game for aliens, but i do understand why you would be upset being on the opposing side.

[Warnipple]

I think the one deciding moment of Sulaco defense was at the end when Toroic was blocking the doorway while the marines refused to enter through the other one. If the marines all rushed at the same time, every alien would've died.

Also throwing knives would've been very useful against Toroic as he was blocking the door but sadly, no one carries throwing knives.