Praetorian Balance Discussion

[northcote4]

My number one complaint with praetorians is, and always will be, the fact that they are slower than the queen .

While on their own this hasn't been a huge problem for me, as I alter my playstyle around this lack of mobility, the fact that the queen's guard unit is unable to keep up with the queen herself really grinds my gears. Really butters my porkchops. Really calcifies my bones. Y'dig?

[Reuben Owen]

My number one complaint with praetorians is, and always will be, the fact that they are slower than the queen .

While on their own this hasn't been a huge problem for me, as I alter my playstyle around this lack of mobility, the fact that the queen's guard unit is unable to keep up with the queen herself really grinds my gears. Really butters my porkchops. Really calcifies my bones. Y'dig?

I dig. Frenzy don't work either since it just makes her faster too.

[451]

Every acid splash from a prae is paincrit, Their acid is 2 to 3 times stronger than a spitters and at elite they both have the same speed.

This makes so much sense now. I've played the praetorian and the spitter both and I've found drastically different behavior from the marines. As an elite spitter I've hit a marine 4 or 5 times while kiting them and they just charge forward, whereas as a mature praetorian I've spit on a marine once and had them running away as fast as possible.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with ss13 in general; I don't use macros and such but my first time as a praetorian I matured then fended off about 15 marines by myself. I thought all spitters were like this but knowing that their acid spit is 2 to 4 times as strong as a equivalently upgraded t2 spitter that would explain why after hitting a few of them that hey retreated en masse.

Maybe a small speed or armor buff is my thought at this point.

[Crab_Spider]

This makes so much sense now. I've played the praetorian and the spitter both and I've found drastically different behavior from the marines. As an elite spitter I've hit a marine 4 or 5 times while kiting them and they just charge forward, whereas as a mature praetorian I've spit on a marine once and had them running away as fast as possible.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with ss13 in general; I don't use macros and such but my first time as a praetorian I matured then fended off about 15 marines by myself. I thought all spitters were like this but knowing that their acid spit is 2 to 4 times as strong as a equivalently upgraded t2 spitter that would explain why after hitting a few of them that hey retreated en masse.

Maybe a small speed or armor buff is my thought at this point.

It'd help a lot, but my fear is this'll encourage more ramboing from praetorians, they'd make great leaders with the same immunity to fire or explosions, but I fear we'll end up encouraging those same rush tactics.

[northcote4]

It'd help a lot, but my fear is this'll encourage more ramboing from praetorians, they'd make great leaders with the same immunity to fire or explosions, but I fear we'll end up encouraging those same rush tactics.

I don't quite follow you, Spider. What do you mean by 'the same immunity to fire or explosions'? Praetorians have neither.

[Crab_Spider]

I don't quite follow you, Spider. What do you mean by 'the same immunity to fire or explosions'? Praetorians have neither.

The immunity crushers have to explosions and the immunity ravagers and queens have to fire.

[TheMusician321]

The immunity crushers have to explosions and the immunity ravagers and queens have to fire.

uhh, praes have neither, they're walking acid-spitting machines of pure pain crit.

[Crab_Spider]

uhh, praes have neither, they're walking acid-spitting machines of pure pain crit.

Exactly. It'd better to just give them either.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Praes already seem kinda off, why are they glorified spitters? Aren't they supposed to be basically super warriors? Anyways when it comes to balance I really just think they need to be faster, or maybe stronger and more able to handle a melee fight. I don't know really. I personally believe at the least they need to be faster.

[darkwahn]

I'd go with just making them a bit faster than the queen at first, and then see how they feel after that.

[Sailor Dave]

Praetorians generally are super warriors, with a strong focus in melee and a larger, but shorter-ranged spit. A sort of combination ravager and spitter. Unfortunately, with the way evolution works right now, that wouldn't be very balanced. The praetorian should be strong, but with some downside, otherwise there would be no reason not to choose it.

[Redikalzip]

Ancient praer - the walking machine gun, the keeper of the plasma and pheromones. He'd speed to add.

[MrJJJ]

Inb4 this becomes about as much of a meme as b18 boots

[Clarkeh]

Inb4 this becomes about as much of a meme as b18 boots

Did they actually fix the B18 boots so they are now armoured? Back on topic as many have stated here, Prae just needs a speed boost so it's as fast as the queen or a bit faster.

[Reuben Owen]

Praetorians generally are super warriors, with a strong focus in melee and a larger, but shorter-ranged spit. A sort of combination ravager and spitter. Unfortunately, with the way evolution works right now, that wouldn't be very balanced. The praetorian should be strong, but with some downside, otherwise there would be no reason not to choose it.

even if it was a 'combination of ravager and spitter' there would still be reason to choose all the other T3s:
-rav would still have charge and be immune to fire, which prae wouldn't, it'd still probably be faster and stronger with melee
-crusher still blows up mines and blocks like no 1s buisness, along with stomp
-and boiler still is the xeno sniper and has the unique gas

the thing about praes right now is most people (queens) see them as a fat spitter
so why even go to them when you can just go to be a upgraded spitter, then you can save your T3 spots for more 'unique' castes

[laserdogbad]

Praetorians generally are super warriors, with a strong focus in melee and a larger, but shorter-ranged spit. A sort of combination ravager and spitter. Unfortunately, with the way evolution works right now, that wouldn't be very balanced. The praetorian should be strong, but with some downside, otherwise there would be no reason not to choose it.

Current Praetorns could be given a diffrent name, and this given a T4 Slot, along with predaliens and the queen

[Reuben Owen]

just going to put all the suggestions so far into 1 post to view them better, I'm literally just copypasting so

GREATLY improve their armor to increase their deflection rate, as well as increase their health slightly OR give their spit a 0% chance to miss

beefing up their armor a bit more to make them more tanky and able to hold their own, instead of feeling like short-ranged boilers

I think praes would greatly benefit from having another spit type on top of the ones spitters have or just buffed versions of the normal ones. Maybe an AoE slow?

Could also add a slow after the neurotoxin stun

Maybe if it had a weaker, shorter-range version of the queen's screech, it'd be more popular and also allow the queen stay out of combat at the same time.

Stronger pheromones, and more defense would be ideal.

Faster movespeed would be the simple solution, and an alternative option would be to make them additional utility.

praes just be like boilers where they get longrange and just use damaging spit

a roar like previously mentioned but it doesnt knock marines down rather freezes them in place

Hallucination spit

Plus I'd like to see maybe a 'blinding' spit (drops a marines sight to one tile for 5-10 seconds does no other damage, recharge delay) as maybe a secondary ability to help the lumbering thing escape and support attacks

Have the Praetorian and the Queen buff each other for being on the same screen

Praes recover full plasma even when not at full health

a slight buff to speed (so it's as quick as the Queen) and its armor

plant pheromone nodes

have more health, armor, and a speed boost so they're a little faster than the queen

a speed buff would defo be nice

speed buff def. needed

All the prae needs is a decent speed buff and not major overhaul. It's stupid its slower then the Queen that's for sure.

What about a stronger acid spit that covers the ground in acid in a 3x3 radius? Slower firing, of course.

they'd make great leaders with the same immunity to fire or explosions

combination ravager and spitter

[Liran343]

+1 for hallucination spit or pheromones nodes

[northcote4]

-Snip-

Because I had nothing better to do with my time, here's a quick tally:

Buff Health: 2
Buff Armour/Melee: 5
Buff Movespeed: 6
Buff Current Spit: 3
New Ability: 9
(AoE spit type (2), Neurotoxin slow, Mini-Screech (2), Hallucination spit (2), Blinding spit)
Other: 5
(Pheromone Buff, Praetorian-Queen-Combo buff, Regenerate Plasma whilst injured, Pheromone Nodes (2), Flame or Explosive Immunity)

[Rocco Ward]

I actually like the idea of regen plasma while it's injured. But to add another ability, Prae maybe should be able to spit weapons out of marine hands, or helmets off their head, or acid armor while being worn.... I dunno, something useful.

(edit - spit grenades? Functions like a flame grenade, but with acid)

[Bath Salts Addict]

Each T3 has a bit of a niche to fill. Boilers provide long range suppression and force marines to retreat, providing cover and kill opportunities with their acid. Crushers are the vanguards who protects their fellows while dismantling Marine defenses. The Ravager leads hunts, devastates the front line and harasses would-be attackers through speed and sheer power. The Hivelord builds. He just builds.

No one seems to be quite sure what niche the Praetorian fills. They're the Queen's guard, right? Do something unique and capitalize on that. Give both them and the Queen buffs such as increases damage or health regen for being on the same screen. Buff ther speed a bit so they can keep up with a Queen on the run.

[Abyss-UT]

I play Praetorian a lot. The thing I would like about it is maybe a roar like the queen but with less stun, and like everyone said to be faster than the queen.
I often heard that "Praetorian is the King" not talking about how many people think you're the Queen when Praetorian, because sprite is similar apart fromn the crest
and the back spines. All in all if Prae would have something cool you obtain when you evolve. Like a special ability just for him, not too powerful but useful to take time so
Queen can escape, that's for me to think the roar stun would be cool, or maybe dig tunnels I don't know. But the Praetorian is called also a "Waste of T3 slots"

[Crab_Spider]

So I've gotten jobbanned from xeno, and lately, I've had enough time to do some experimenting, what I found was a bit shocking: Praes are actually damn powerful. I got spit by a Mature Prae, and the moment it registered, I was thrusted into critical, and 30 seconds later, as I walked to the tablefort, I went into paincrit. Yes, I was wearing armour, no I was not on painkillers, just one spit, and I'm at critical.

Taking a look into it, the best they need is simply a "screech" that removes the ability to spit, and grants them the speed of a Hunter, complete immunity to fire would help too.

[Swagile]

Prae's critical means shit all when you think about it.

Why? All you need is one tram pill and your fine getting hit, and it gives no lasting damage because burn damage doesn't give third degree burns, etc. that requires a doctor to heal. While T3's such as Ravagers and Crushers can cause fractures and broken bones, which will last the entire game unless a doctor fixes you.

So in the long term, against competent combat medics, a prae is a waste of a T3 slot.

[Crab_Spider]

Prae's critical means shit all when you think about it.

Why? All you need is one tram pill and your fine getting hit, and it gives no lasting damage because burn damage doesn't give third degree burns, etc. that requires a doctor to heal. While T3's such as Ravagers and Crushers can cause fractures and broken bones, which will last the entire game unless a doctor fixes you.

So in the long term, against competent combat medics, a prae is a waste of a T3 slot.

So because there are medics around, the splatter is worthless? There are weeds all over the table fort, we don't need a drone. All the Marines are infected, we don't need a carrier. There are no mines, we don't need a crusher. There are medics around so what's the point of having a spitter? We don't need a Queen, all the xenos are Ancient and there's no point of having eggs.

Why not also mention how burn damage (or damage in general) slows you down, or how Praes have PHEROMONES (yknow, the stuff that increase specific stats for every alien in view)? Or how both Crushers and Ravagers are glass cannons? Why not also bring up the fact that CHEMS WEAR OFF? Oh hey, what about that decreasing cooldown as they mature? Yknow, something that is very useful for slowing down a group of Marines? But I digress. Who needs a Praetorian, when we have Boilers? The most fucking useless xenomorph there is. Not only do they have spend some time holding still, they'll also give off life, compromising the very notion of stealth. Or hey, they'll also be so slow, let alone easy pickings, their own DEFENSIVE ABILITY will fuck them over. You know what irks me about your statement on a competitent medic? The fact you fail to take into account that SUPPLIES RUN OUT, and fail to grasp the fact that medics are as killable as a standard.