Buckshot vs Slug: The final debate.

[Tidomann]

You can pack both a M41A and a shotgun, but you sacrifice the satchel/backpack slot. That's what I do lately.

Dont get the underbarrel shotgun for the m41a, because I like to use it- and there is only a limited amount.

[XenocidalEnragement]

Dont get the underbarrel shotgun for the m41a, because I like to use it- and there is only a limited amount.

[EchoingPhaser]

On the rare day I grab a shotgun I like to load both and keep a mental track of whats in the chamber, and it kinda works if the shots line up right

or it fails horribly and I die to three hunters and a drone its really risky playing "slug-shot" roulette but hey its a fun way to fight

[Jackrabbit]

I normally load with slugs and early round engage from range, then move in with buckshot later in the round.

[Crab_Spider]

I normally load with slugs and early round engage from range, then move in with buckshot later in the round.

2 slugs and then 2 buckshot would do better justice, honestly. Most because you're going to do a lot of memorizing on the run.

[Jackrabbit]

2 slugs and then 2 buckshot would do better justice, honestly. Most because you're going to do a lot of memorizing on the run.

My internet isn't real good, so I dunno about mix and matching ammo, because I might lag out when I get a little closer to cuckshot a xeno that either I or someone else hit. Just worried I'd fire the slug, move in for buck, lag, and not be able to fall back

[Dolth]

Gyro cuckshot is the way.

The only reason you use slug is if you dual wield shotgun. Or if you have incendiary. That's all.

EDIT: Steel got it right with th reply below.

[Steelpoint]

Slug is only good in Human v Human conflict.

[XenocidalEnragement]

Slug is only good in Human v Human conflict.

All depends.

Slugs are generally good against any heavily-armored target or targets with internal organs and bones. Human combatants like the CLF and UPP can easily get their limbs broken in one shot due to the sheer damage from each shell, while heavily-armored 'humans' and mobs like the Commandos, Predators and Crushers can get their health taken down quickly due to the high armor-penetration value that slugs boast. There's also the fact that the slugs are highly accurate, have high range and can be used to minimize risk to the user. Slugs promote a careful and accurate playstyle; train your target's movements and aim for specific limbs to cripple their ability to fight back while filling the intermediate role of an armor-piercer without needing a SADAR. Low risk for moderate-high rewards.

Buckshot is excellent against everything /but/ the Crusher's front crest at ~2 tiles and closer. Against xenos, it will shred through the health of most high-caste xenos like Boilers, Ravagers and Queens quickly while instakilling and instagibbing lower tiered xenos such as Runners, Hunters and Drones. Point-blank blasts against xenos are very powerful, but carry the drawback of being able to instantly send someone into paincrit due to their acidic blood. Against 'human' targets, buckshot destroys everything, hands-down; without the worry of being sprayed with acid, a buckshot shotgunner can easily fire follow-up shots on a guy point-blank to kill them within the span of a few seconds. Contrasting with slugs, buckshot promotes the user to essentially act like a Khornate; charge head-first into combat and turn the enemy's face into a chunky heap of salsa with the aid of your close-range blasts, promoted with the guaranteed stun at close range that will down anyone long enough to fire follow-up shots. High risk for extremely-high rewards.

If you want to have both at once though, I guess the best thing you can do to get the benefits of both worlds is to take a buckshot shotgun outfitted for close-quarters combat on your armor's belt slot (gyro with a barrel charger and/or a magnetic harness) and a slug shotgun outfitted for ranged combat (foregrip with a RDS or wooden stock) mounted on your back's scabbard with a 50/50 split of slugs and buckshot in your shell-holding rig. Well, that or a buckshot shotgun with a AP-loaded M41A. Your choice, not mine.

At the end of the day, the choice on buckshot or slugs depends on if you want to take risks or not. Do you want to slay xenos at a range and scaring off the heavily-armored xenos from charging head-long into your fireteam with minimal risk, or strap on your big-boy pants and delve straight into Hell by taking the fight to the xenos by turning them into acidic corpses and giblets?

[Heckenshutze]

I've seen lately a lot of marine shotgunners, using the shotgun ammo belt and up to two shotguns on them. Makes me proud, if we had a little more organization every squad should have at least one shotgunner

[Crab_Spider]

I've seen lately a lot of marine shotgunners, using the shotgun ammo belt and up to two shotguns on them. Makes me proud, if we had a little more organization every squad should have at least one shotgunner

We're getting a nerf to shotguns.

[Surrealistik]

I've seen lately a lot of marine shotgunners, using the shotgun ammo belt and up to two shotguns on them. Makes me proud, if we had a little more organization every squad should have at least one shotgunner

Shotguns have always been ace. I might prefer rifles for their versatility as an Engineer at the backlines, but if you're gonna frontline and kill stuff, go buck shotgun or go home.

[Zilenan91]

The role of shotguns is to keep hunters and stuff away from the pulse rifle marines who are good at killing everything but Hunters.

[Marcus Jackson]

We're getting a nerf to shotguns.

Frankly seems unneeded, considering that the range is that of a shotty and is much slower than other weapons, seems like a waste of time to change it when it's already inside it's own little niche.

[misterjoper]

So far My understanding of shotgun ammunition is like this:
Buckshot MUST be used with gyro,optionally barrel charger(EVERY buck Shot gets a damage boost separatly in theory).
If you did not manage to get a gyro,then load Slugs.Because When you recover out of Hunter's pounce You WON"T have a chance to fire a Two-handed weapon.Might as well keep Hunters away from you with slugs/m4a1 pulse riffle.
If i fail to get gyro,m4a3 burst fire AND acurracy atachment is good.

[Surrealistik]

No.

Slugs should never be used except in the case of Humans v Humans/Zombies where the combination of range, armor penetration and bone fracturing capabilities are invaluable.

Buckshot should be used in just about every other case due to their immense spike damage and superior DPS.

Opposition, not attachments decide, which in turn decides your attachments; buckshot is still hands down the better choice vs Xenos even if two handed.

Also, slug is fine vs Hunters at close range and stuns them like buckshot, it's just they don't do nearly as much damage.

[Crab_Spider]

No.

Slugs should never be used except in the case of Humans v Humans/Zombies where the combination of range, armor penetration and bone fracturing capabilities are invaluable.

Buckshot should be used in just about every other case due to their immense spike damage and superior DPS.

Opposition, not attachments decide, which in turn decides your attachments; buckshot is still hands down the better choice vs Xenos even if two handed.

Also, slug is fine vs Hunters at close range and stuns them like buckshot, it's just they don't do nearly as much damage.

Buckshot is not remotely a better choice, regardless of damage output.

[Surrealistik]

Buckshot is not remotely a better choice, regardless of damage output.

I'd say the vast, vast majority of Marine mains would disagree.

Slugs vs Xenos is basically a shitty, low DPS, low ammo capacity M1A4 with better penetration... except at close range where buckshot handily outperforms it.

[Crab_Spider]

I'd say the vast, vast majority of Marine mains would disagree.

Slugs vs Xenos is basically a shitty, low DPS, low ammo capacity M1A4 with better penetration... except at close range where buckshot handily outperforms it.

I do not care about what other people think. Neither do I care about the downsides. You're sacrificing range all round to get a kill you are most likely going to fail at securing, in what way is this better?

[Surrealistik]

I do not care about what other people think. Neither do I care about the downsides. You're sacrificing range all round to get a kill you are most likely going to fail at securing, in what way is this better?

What are you talking about?

Buckshot is probably the single best weapon for scoring and securing kills because you do fucktons of spike damage (especially if you point blank and/or have a BC) + a stun that lasts long enough to follow up with at least a bayonet strike. I get and set up more kills with buckshot M37s than any other weapon.

As to range, let's face it, vs Xenos and their regen, being able to fire 1 M4A1 round per 2ish seconds is so shit you may as well have no range at all, nevermind the reload times, even if it does have good armour penetration.

The ideal is rocking a buckshot shotgun (or flamethrower) and an M4A1 or a gyro shotgun and an SMG with AP like this guy: https://youtu.be/X3DU-7a8mP0?t=61

[XenocidalEnragement]

I do not care about what other people think. Neither do I care about the downsides. You're sacrificing range all round to get a kill you are most likely going to fail at securing, in what way is this better?

I believe he was mentioning more that taking a shotgun with slugs is a bad idea if you intend on only engaging in ranged combat. The M41A Mk. II with AP rounds is just better then a shotgun with slugs in virtually every way, save for possibly its accuracy and the stunning power that slugs possess at close-range. From personal experience, the M41A Mk. II with AP rounds is better against the UPP/CLF/Humans then the shotgun due to its ability to easily decapitate and dismember limbs with its burst-fire capabilities. To compare the two:

An unmodded M37A2 Shotgun with Slugs has:
* Moderate damage, high armor-penetration
* Maximum capacity of 9 shells
* Slow firing speed, manual pump required inbetween shots

An unmodded M41A Mk. II Rifle with AP Magazines has:
* Low-moderate damage, high armor-penetration
* Maximum capacity of 32-33 rounds
* Moderate firing speed, semi-automatic and three-round bursts
* Reloadable UGL with the ability to stun any kind of xenos (besides the Crusher)

Even with attachments, the M37A2 Shotgun will loose out to the M41A Mk. II Rifle in terms of sheer killing power; xeno or human. There's a reason why I refer to a M41A Mk. II with a gyroscopic stabilizer, barrel charger and red-dot sight as a poor man's Boltgun; it can and will destroy anything that's unfortunate enough to be within sight of the marine wielding it. The M37A2 Shotgun with Slugs could possibly be made into a sniper with the appropiate attachments, but that's what we have the M42A and A19s for.

[misterjoper]

I do not care about what other people think. Neither do I care about the downsides. You're sacrificing range all round to get a kill you are most likely going to fail at securing, in what way is this better?

This guy Gets it.SHOTGUN is NOT a DAMAGE PER SECOND weapon.In fact it's more of Self-defence weapon.

[Surrealistik]

This guy Gets it.SHOTGUN is NOT a DAMAGE PER SECOND weapon.In fact it's more of Self-defence weapon.

No he doesn't, because if you want range, you get the M4A1, and if you want CQC, you get buckshot.

Slugs feature the worst of both worlds, and only have a niche against human enemies if you can't get your hands on M4A1 AP rounds.

That said, you're half right; the shotgun is not a DPS weapon, it is a spike damage weapon, but it is most certainly excellent for aggressive use and xenu hunting even though it also excels at self-defense (except against spitters).

[misterjoper]

No he doesn't, because if you want range, you get the M4A1, and if you want CQC, you get buckshot.

Slugs feature the worst of both worlds, and only have a niche against human enemies if you can't get your hands on M4A1 AP rounds.

That said, you're half right; the shotgun is not a DPS weapon, it is a spike damage weapon, but it is most certainly excellent for aggressive use and xenu hunting even though it also excels at self-defense (except against spitters).

Because it's Spike damage weapon you Will NOT be able to secure a kill unless alien is bald.Therefore Shotgun is for defence only,and not for killing.The good thing about slugs is that they have a stun,which m4a1 does not have.So slugs make you a Jack-of-All trades,though a really not efficient enough to kill something.

[Surrealistik]

Because it's Spike damage weapon you Will NOT be able to secure a kill unless alien is bald.Therefore Shotgun is for defence only,and not for killing.The good thing about slugs is that they have a stun,which m4a1 does not have.So slugs make you a Jack-of-All trades,though a really not efficient enough to kill something.

Um.

Stun + massive up front damage + bayonet follow up, and then a possible second shotgun blast.

If you have a BC attached, the damage is enough to one shot, or come close enough that the bayonet follow up will put your target into crit unless it's a durable T3 or ancient T2. Even without the BC, you can do enough damage to reliably kill any T1 and most T2s.

As stated, slugs are the worst of both worlds; they suck at range, and are mediocre up close (even the stun isn't that great compared to close range burst fire).