Buckshot vs Slug: The final debate.

[Dolth]

Um.

Stun + massive up front damage + bayonet follow up, and then a possible second shotgun blast.

If you have a BC attached, the damage is enough to one shot, or come close enough that the bayonet follow up will put your target into crit unless it's a durable T3 or ancient T2. Even without the BC, you can do enough damage to reliably kill any T1 and most T2s.

As stated, slugs are the worst of both worlds; they suck at range, and are mediocre up close (even the stun isn't that great compared to close range burst fire).

Based on my solid experience. Surrealistik is right. Buckshot with BC is often enough to one shot/crit T1 to T2, especially if you following with a bayonnet hit.
Now I am pretty sure any mature T2 would survive with an inch of HP though.

Also if you're good at swapping guns fast, a cuckshot can be really well to engage with.

[Zilenan91]

Buckshot one-shots all Hunter upgrades up to Elite if you hit them with all seven pellets. Ancient only barely survives. It one-shots all T1s no matter their upgrade iirc but sentinels might survive, I've never tested it since sentinels hard-counter shotguns anyways.

[Kris P Kreme]

both are aids. I think the Slug is ultimately better though considering you can gank aliens if youre fast enough, most of the time a slug can do enough damage to make them run at least.

[Surrealistik]

both are aids. I think the Slug is ultimately better though considering you can gank aliens if youre fast enough, most of the time a slug can do enough damage to make them run at least.

Are you seriously saying you can't gank aliens with buckshot? The only readily accessible weapon that can one shot + stun T1s and T2s?

Slug damage at long range is also crap, while at short range buckshot is way better.

[Crab_Spider]

Are you seriously saying you can't gank aliens with buckshot? The only readily accessible weapon that can one shot + stun T1s and T2s?

Slug damage at long range is also crap, while at short range buckshot is way better.

Your biases annoy me. All I have to say o7

[Surrealistik]

Your biases annoy me. All I have to say o7

It's not bias, it's experience + empirical evidence. Slugs are shit, and I've been on both the giving and receiving end.

Listen, I get the compulsion to find a use for the things, I really want them to be useful too, but aside from a niche role in HvH when you have no access to AP, it just doesn't exist; they're garbagio.

[Crab_Spider]

It's not bias, it's experience + empirical evidence. Slugs are shit, and I've been on both the giving and receiving end.

Listen, I get the compulsion to find a use for the things, I really want them to be useful too, but aside from a niche role in HvH when you have no access to AP, it just doesn't exist; they're garbagio.

I really cannot care...

[Wubs4Scrubs]

Slugs are fucking great! Against marines....

The past two marine rounds I've played have been ruined by people firing slugs. Not only is buckshot better at close range and better at stunning + finishing off xenos, but it is also better at avoiding critical FF. If you get point blank buckshotted you're much less likely to suffer round altering damage since slugs are AP and will literally blow off a marine's limb in one shot from FF.

[Heckenshutze]

Plot twist: What if we added Incendiary slugs into the equation?

[Surrealistik]

Slugs are fucking great! Against marines....

The past two marine rounds I've played have been ruined by people firing slugs. Not only is buckshot better at close range and better at stunning + finishing off xenos, but it is also better at avoiding critical FF. If you get point blank buckshotted you're much less likely to suffer round altering damage since slugs are AP and will literally blow off a marine's limb in one shot from FF.

I dunno man, if your limb gets shot point blank, buckshot annihilates it pretty consistently; it also has a nasty habit of embedding shrapnel.

That said, buckshot FF is only a danger at less than half the range of slugs.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

I dunno man, if your limb gets shot point blank, buckshot annihilates it pretty consistently; it also has a nasty habit of embedding shrapnel.

That said, buckshot FF is only a danger at less than half the range of slugs.

Buckshot FF is will still fuck you up, don't get me wrong. However the AP aspect of slugs will literally remove a limb in one shot which effectively takes somebody out of the round. When you get filled with buckshot at worst you'll have some broken bones which can be splinted up.

[OatzAndHoes]

Buckshot FF is will still fuck you up, don't get me wrong. However the AP aspect of slugs will literally remove a limb in one shot which effectively takes somebody out of the round. When you get filled with buckshot at worst you'll have some broken bones which can be splinted up.

The only time I see people get FF'd with slugs is when the firer is a total boot. Anytime you shoot with slugs the shots are generally more deliberate because it has a slower ROF than an M41 or SMG. Also buckshot has a spread, which is what I see FF people the most. The only time FF really happens with slugs is when the firer is shooting like a retard or has help intent on while on the frontlines.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

The only time FF really happens with slugs is when the firer is shooting like a retard or has help intent on while on the frontlines.

People are often boots who have help intent on in the frontlines.

[OatzAndHoes]

People are often boots who have help intent on in the frontlines.

Then they will get shot. It takes 2 marines with help intent on to start a FF incident like that. As long as you're smart with changing intents on the fly you'll be a lot safer from FF.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

Then they will get shot. It takes 2 marines with help intent on to start a FF incident like that. As long as you're smart with changing intents on the fly you'll be a lot safer from FF.

My issue with slugs is that with a mistake like that it only takes one shot to completely take a marine out of the round. I see people get FF'd by slugs much more often than buckshot because most xeno engagements are way outside of buckshot range. As previously mentioned, my past two marine rounds have been cut short from getting limbs amputated by a single slug. Whereas with buckshot, you might get a broken bone or two but since they aren't AP marines will usually be able to get back to fighting without having to evac.

[Surrealistik]

Buckshot FF is will still fuck you up, don't get me wrong. However the AP aspect of slugs will literally remove a limb in one shot which effectively takes somebody out of the round. When you get filled with buckshot at worst you'll have some broken bones which can be splinted up.

If buckshot hits a limb within its effective range, it _will_ blow it off.

[SpecialAgentOrange]

Incendiary is the only option.

[Heckenshutze]

Buckshot FF is the funniest of all

[PWNJimiPWN]

I was a slug man for the less FF but i have learned when to shoot and not shoot my shot gun with buck shot.

Buck shot is best if your competent so i vote buck shot

I think buck shot should only be used by advanced shotgun users because too many times i get point blanked without even moving by a squad member with buck shot. xD

[Surrealistik]

As all of you surely know by now, slugs got a much needed buff but I don't think it quite goes far enough.

I think there remains several major problems with slugs:

1. Buckshot has better attachment synergies; it doesn't care about accuracy and thus derives especial benefit from magnetic, bayonet, barrel charger and gyro (granted the Slug M37 has some good 'no downside' options with RDS and Foregrip but this doesn't yield as much benefit as gyromagbayo for buckshot).
2. Buckshot friendly attachments are mutually exclusive with slugs; likewise, losing the gyro reduces buckshot's value considerably if building with slugs in mind; in general if you're gearing towards slugs, you lose lots of buckshot effectiveness and vice versa. About the only loadout that can use them both decently would be Gyro + (RDS or Extended + Mag).
3. Slugs are still fairly inaccurate at longer ranges (6+ tiles) out of the box without accuracy boosters to shore them up.
4. +2 tiles of stun range alone doesn't quite compensate for embarrassingly low DPS and spike damage.

[zoboomafoo]

Slugs are good if you can shoot, esp. with a tac shotty. Those things hurt. Still loading the fallback shotgun with buck though.

[WinterClould]

Slugs have a fun factor to them that Buck doesn't have. Buck is risky. A gamble where the entire deck is stacked against you. Will you click before hunter 69 that can see you in the dark and around a corner does? Will you get that lucky shot off that cucks the beno scum or will half your shot miss? Even if you do get that shot that nearly sends them into crit can you get the follow up shot/stab off in time before their stun wears off? To often for me the answer was always no.

Eventually I stopped packing the backup shotty. It was either never used or always ended in FF or death via pounce/tackle spam. I went pure M41 and felt a lot better about it.

However! Since the slug update I've been maining a maximum accuracy shotgun only loadout and it's been a lot of fun. I don't really kill anything or do a lot of damage on my own, but oh it's a joy to punt T1's and 2's around the room while your friendlies light them up. It's a good deterrent since the only thing a xeno hates as much as being on fire is being stunned. A solid SL weapon since it has the range to lead a charge and provides a assist to your PFC baldies. Solid Engi/Medic weapon since so long as it hits it often makes the xeno reconsider in just the same way a load of buckshot will even if it doesn't do a ton of damage. You can also hit things outside of buckshot range so beno's can't negate your firepower simply by being 4 tiles away.

All else fails I can always take off the stock and recoil-comp and load a spare supply of buckshot if things are specifically requiring that.

[Surrealistik]

Slugs have a fun factor to them that Buck doesn't have. Buck is risky. A gamble where the entire deck is stacked against you. Will you click before hunter 69 that can see you in the dark and around a corner does? Will you get that lucky shot off that cucks the beno scum or will half your shot miss? Even if you do get that shot that nearly sends them into crit can you get the follow up shot/stab off in time before their stun wears off? To often for me the answer was always no.

Eventually I stopped packing the backup shotty. It was either never used or always ended in FF or death via pounce/tackle spam. I went pure M41 and felt a lot better about it.

However! Since the slug update I've been maining a maximum accuracy shotgun only loadout and it's been a lot of fun. I don't really kill anything or do a lot of damage on my own, but oh it's a joy to punt T1's and 2's around the room while your friendlies light them up. It's a good deterrent since the only thing a xeno hates as much as being on fire is being stunned. A solid SL weapon since it has the range to lead a charge and provides a assist to your PFC baldies. Solid Engi/Medic weapon since so long as it hits it often makes the xeno reconsider in just the same way a load of buckshot will even if it doesn't do a ton of damage. You can also hit things outside of buckshot range so beno's can't negate your firepower simply by being 4 tiles away.

All else fails I can always take off the stock and recoil-comp and load a spare supply of buckshot if things are specifically requiring that.

Buckshot is risky if you take the fight to the enemy; if they've taken the fight to you, then it is the best defensive weapon you can have: all the stopping power you need to peel a beano turd off your barricades, off a teammate, or yourself. Yeah, if there's literally no one to help you, you're done when stunlocked, but that goes regardless of what you're packing.

The key to buckshot's value is reaction time and mobility, hence why gyro is utterly indispensable for a buckshot shotgun.

The problem with slugs is they absolutely rely on having a bunch of people nearby that can capitalize on the +3 tile stun range (vs buckshot), and it doesn't have nearly the stopping power in damage terms necessary to beat off more powerful xenos, nor does it play nice with the bayonet (or gyro really) which is a big source of damage output between shots.

I'll try the gyro+mag+extended (not recoil comp; why trade damage for recoil reduction when that's essentially worthless?) M37 with slugs as Engi and see if it's at all worth a shit, but I think I will be disappointed; the loss of the bayo will be painful especially.

[Heckenshutze]

I feel I'm in the middle about this, since both slugs and buckshot has never let me down when I needed them, main issue with the slugs will always be the lack of insta-crit / insta-kill chance the buckshot has. It always cracks me up when I insta-crit T1's and T2's with a single shot clicking behind their sprite (the old trick to make all shells hit) Besides, the times I've to fight a T3 by myself buckshot (and Pulse rifle) where the ones that made me win, YET, I've made my kills with slugs before, it's perfect againts sentinels or spitters who thinking they can shrug off the slug damage they engage you in a mid-range fight just to realize the slugs ate their whole health bar in 3 shots, since slugs are AP you will have no trouble in dealing with T3's hopping on your barricades or trying to flank you or even charge at you; since {B}enos tend to know who not to fight alone for obvious reasons, they'll usually fall back when their health is put in half.

But in an overall sense, I always pick buckshot over slugs by 3 simple reasons:

1) Insta-crit or kill chance.

2) Doesn't REALLY need any attachments other than flashlight and bayonet

3) It's a "Finish him" ammo. Since you usually land the first hits with the pulse rifle then you can switch to the shotgun, let him dance around you and end him in the first mistake it mades.

Regardless all that, yes, it's a high risk thing. But the prize is also high. Slugs will always be safer.

[solidfury7]

Slugs are in a good spot right now. I still think the pump action is the biggest issue shotguns have.

Slugs are more so a supportive tool. Excellent to have while in a group due to the new stun range.