Passive SLs VS Aggressive SLs?

[Renomaki]

Recently, Xur made a topic on the idea of giving SLs a selection of weapons that SLs could access, which I was against due to my belief in the idea of SLs being more passive, supportive leaders than screaming rambos that constantly feel the need to lead by example to the point that they forget that they even ARE SLs. However, quite a few people seemed to disagree on the idea of a more passive leader, believing that aggression is a more vital trait for a leader than being able to support their squads.

This got me wondering... What IS a better SL for a squad? Is a leader that minimizes combat and focuses heavily on tactics, support and communication what marines need, or is it better to use heavy weapons and constantly lead from the front spraying bullets everywhere with only the most basic commands to orient your squad?

My belief, quite clearly, is that an SL should be the sort that arms himself only for the sake of self defense and lets his men [and a well placed OB] do most of the killing. Sure, I admit I can be a bit of a hypocrite at times and may have gotten overly excited to charge into battle with blade in hand every now and then, but for the most part, I always focus on communication and keeping my squad's ammo pouches full and their morale steady. I might not get a lot of kills, but the fact that I am always putting the needs of my squad first over myself is a vital trait to have.

But then, what do you prefer in an SL? Is just being violently aggressive and armed to the teeth what all the cool SLs prefer to do?

[Crab_Spider]

A better SL is one that ACTUALLY leads rather than getting into combat. Someone who takes time to lead by example, shows they're worthy of being a leader, and can actually sort situations out with a plan, is the best choice of commanding, putting yourself directly in harms way, does not solve anything but make a detriment to your men and your purpose as a leader.

[Varnasis]

I think a SL that actually leads rather than just being a typical Marine running in like Rambo is much better. Organization is key when being a SL but you always have those retards that will just run off into the jungle on their own without listening to any single order you give them. SL shouldn't focus on weapons for themselves they should focus on maybe better weapons for the more organized and loyal Marines that actually listen to their orders and help with organization. Maybe actually have some way to reward the Marines under them and basically, give them an incentive to listen and organize with the SL rather than act against the SL.

[Monoo]

You're confusing aggression with ramboing.

Marines will not push unless coordinated to do so. Passive SLs may stay alive longer, but they generally don't accomplish as much, and are just as susceptible to surprise attacks. SLs as a whole need better protection, hence the topic Xur created.

Again, I'm not advocating ramboing or hyper aggressive behavior. SLs should never go anywhere alone and should always command from the back of their squad unless they have a clear advantage. However, staying behind the front lines and focusing more on running supplies and relaying to command does nothing to push the xenos back or inspire the men.

[Swagile]

I tend to be at the front as a SL because everyone see's the different design scheme and the fact that their leader is willing to go into danger head on as a bonus. No one will listen to you when you order a charge but when you order it you sit behind all your men.

To get anything done you gotta get your hands dirty; you have to be at the front or AT LEAST the MIDDLE of your squad during pushes. This is also where you fully understand your squad strength and cohesion; who FF's the most, who pulls everyone back for aid, how effective your medic is at patching everyone up, how much ammo is really being spent by your men, and which supplies you actually need. You won't see that much while in the back watching your men come back to get help or fully retreating till its too late, hence why I tend to be a "aggressive SL".

[RedOktober12]

Honestly, a good SL is one that can come up with a plan, and execute it. To that end, you can either command your squad well, leading from its center to position your marines in such a way that they can carry out your orders, and take/hold ground; or you can lead from the front and perform the action yourself. If you're robust enough for the latter to be viable for you, then you should by all means use that approach. However, most marines are not, and should as such rely on being able to come up with a plan and live long enough to keep the squad cohesive for pushes and holds.

The worst thing an SL can do is die quickly, which tends to lead to their marines dying quickly as well. As such, rule number one should always be keep yourself alive. You don't have to be mechanically effective, though it helps. You need to have the awareness of when you personally can handle going aggro, and when its best to let the bulletsponges deal with the brawl.

[Renomaki]

You're confusing aggression with ramboing.

Marines will not push unless coordinated to do so. Passive SLs may stay alive longer, but they generally don't accomplish as much, and are just as susceptible to surprise attacks. SLs as a whole need better protection, hence the topic Xur created.

Again, I'm not advocating ramboing or hyper aggressive behavior. SLs should never go anywhere alone and should always command from the back of their squad unless they have a clear advantage. However, staying behind the front lines and focusing more on running supplies and relaying to command does nothing to push the xenos back or inspire the men.

Indeed, a leader must keep near his squad and lead them towards battle, but sometimes I notice that some SLs get... TOO eager to get into the thick of things.

Xur is a good leader, but sometimes I think he focuses too much on the combat side of things, to the point that he forgets the most vital of things (such as keeping his squad supplied or finding alternative paths when dealing with a bottleneck). You could have the biggest shootah of the lot, but it won't win battles if your troops run out of ammo and are scattered about.

My reason for this thread is that I notice that some of our bigger names in squad leading tend to focus more on firepower than tacticalpower, assuming that SLs need bigger guns to be effective, when I myself normally bring a revolver as my personal weapon and focus on letting my squad do the shooting while I keep everyone together and safe from the middle, being a living rallypoint and reliable radioman when everyone else is too busy shooting.

Maybe I'm just a bad SL, but I just prefer to put my focus on communication over slitting the throats of xenos.. Although I do like slitting xenos throats...

Plus, I daydream of the day where I could have more tactical tools to use to fill my backpack with to make SLing easier...

[Rocco Ward]

You won't see that much while in the back watching your men come back to get help or fully retreating till its too late, hence why I tend to be a "aggressive SL".

I rarely see SLs use their binoculars, but it's meant to give oversight for situation awareness. Maybe in my half year of playing have I seen a SL use it less than a dozen times.

I'm going to have to agree with reno here though. I see too many SLs leading at the front lines only to be the first to put into the morgue. In fact, I had a mchat with other players on the command whitelist and everyone agreed that most of the time half of the SLs are KIA before they can even use an OB. I don't think this is entirely due to baldies playing the role, but it's players who don't understand that a SL should be similar to a BO role (with a little more combat added).

[Karmac]

I like the idea of SL's being passive because they're a much more vital role than most other groundside jobs, I just feel them being able to give their squad more fire support to replace the lack of an SL in an actual fight would be an interesting mechanic.

[TopHatPenguin]

I'd like to say on the rare occasion I do end up leading as a Sl or as another job I lead in a passive way I think. I do prefer to just get people moving and actively doing something as I know from playing standard a hell of a lot that people will get bored extremely quickly if you don't give them a task. I try to be also active on comms quite a bit to keep up the Rp although I'm a rather slow typer which doesn't help but hey-ho.

I'd say I honestly prefer passive leaders because the idea of your squad lead charging in heroicly paints a nice picture but doesn't help the squad.

[Casany]

I am more of an aggressive SL, yeah. But I always communicate with both command and my squad, I always get my OBs and SSBs down on time where they are supposed to be.

Typically, many people are much more willing to follow an SL in a charge then a standard.

Does this style make me a worse SL? Well, I have yet to get complaints so I'd say I'm atleast decent enough to keep my squad well oiled and fighting

[Karmac]

I mean we can't just have one or the other so as long as it's working for you Cas I'd say there isn't much of a problem, diversity and all that y'know?

[halo9663]

As BO and marine experience i think the best SL is a passive

Why?

A SL is to relay order from command,make strategy and lead their squad

A agresive SL only lead to get hugged leaving the squad to fragments and leave the command completely blind

[Diggman88]

I prefer an agressive SL that leads the squad from the front. It makes​ cohesion easier in battle.

When the battle is joined and xeno are lurking my attention is mainly on the game screen. I will go 30 minutes without glancing at the chat log because you can't risk 10 seconds recapping the logs with xeno's watching. Just playing to follow the leader simplifies things it has its flaws, but I've seen it work.

I have seen passive SLs but I just end up standing around awkwardly most of the time. That maybe just new SLs taking the safe route. It does not seem like they do much in battle because the text system makes commanding hard. Besides, how complex can your orders get with one squad beyond follow and hold here?

[Swagile]

Until there is an option to remove combat logs / silence them from your chat box, a passive SL will not be viable.

No one can read what your saying when its blocked by 20x "MARINE SHOOTS AT XENO" big red text edition.

[NoahKirchner]

I lead from the front, but I fall back when need be and repeat things over comms 150 times so people know the direction the battle is going. I feel like it is important to be on the front with your men.

Yesterday, for example, I fought on the front with the rest of charlie as Hunter Thames, and by coordinating with all the squads on the front when to push and when to fall back slightly, and practicing this, we got a lot more kills than we would have otherwise. (Mostly due to the marines being robust, shooting and following orders, but I feel the need to inflate my own ego.)

[Xurphorus]

I would say from my experience that an SL should lead by Example. I myself play both sides of the field where my attributes work best in command, I'm also very Combat capable. I have openly admitted that when I'm struck in combat I get overly consumed of the combat but I still try my best to keep my squad as tight as possible while in it. I know when to strike, and I know when to fall back. If my Marines are not taking the initiative to push ahead at a Crusher or a Queen gives me the impression I'm leading pussies so I would take that moment to move up and show them that there is nothing to be afraid of. I made the thread because personally I liked using the M4RA Battle Rifle, but I also proposed a key element in squad cohesion, which is squad assignments. Gunner, Recon, and Flamer. As a squad leader we give marines the tools to be utilized effectively in combat. There is nothing wrong with a leader who wants to get their hands dirty, sometimes they have to if their squad ain't trying to.

[EXOTICISME]

I prefer SL that can lead a charge and give marines the momentum they need. I remember a round when all the SL's is a serious badass that constantly lead in the front so all the marines can follow them, although they constantly being sent back to Sulaco for surgery or ordering a new helmet since the last one is broken by huggers but they didn't die and last almost until the end of the round (2 of them died though). The only problem with marines now is that if no one lead the charge they will just turtle until aliens strong enough to crush them, leading to long skirmish which marines will lose because aliens can heal easily and have endless huggers (assuming they have a good queen) while marines need a coordination with command and requisition staff for an endless supplies.

[TheMaskedMan2]

To me I have always thought of the SL as one who stays in the middle of their squad, and knows how to lead a push, yet keep safe during prolonged attacks to organize.

In my opinion the SL is essentially a big radio antennae. They should be using their radio more than their gun.

[Garrison]

I gave squad leading a try after reading this. Trying to see if I could see how a passive or aggressive SL could be first hand. I took a modded Revolver as a means to provide cover fire, and a flamer thrower so I could unleash a wall of flames if my squad needed to retreat or to deter an alien advance. It was rather effective, until my squad responded to an alien incursion at hydro and the Queen rushed us, and I was too busy trying to type in chat to run. You can figure out what happened from there.

In regards to the topic, I think a good SL needs a balance of both, but play-style is also a factor. A passive SL might come off as lazy and not contributing to the battle, but they are more likely to stay alive and thus, stick around and keep the squad('s) and overall ground operations coordinated. An aggressive SL however, could probably get some very well placed Orbital strikes, in addition to ensuring their squad stays in formation and determining if they need to fall back or advance more effectively since they are fighting on the front line beside their comrades. This however, comes at the draw back of being very likely to be killed due to a well placed Alien strike.

[Fitchace]

Lead from the rear.

[4thsurviver]

Sometimes as BO I see the aggressive SLs get stuck on the wrong end of a boiler cloud or get hugger combated and dragged off because they were in the front and the squad fell back or was unable to recover the SL. I only played one round as SL and it didn't go well but as BO my best advice is a mixed approach is best. I'd say only lead from the front if you have to set an example. If you have marines already doing a good job praise them, don't outshine them. And if you are leading from the front make doubly sure people are actually following you. So many times I see a SL in the caves or in the barrens chasing after a lone Xeno and going out of sight of other marines and get ambushed because the other marines couldn't keep up.

[Boltersam]

I find a bit of both is good. You need to be passive in order to give coherent orders without being under pressure, as well as being Command's eyes on the ground, but sometimes you need to be more aggressive and push your Marines to keep fighting instead of retreating. In combat, it's better to use one word and simple commands that people can read immediately and respond accordingly to. Most importantly, keep everyone together with sticky glue. Too often I see squads fracture and wander off to help and talk to other people.

As an SL, your net value is higher than most other Marines. Stay in the center of the pack.

[Renomaki]

I find a bit of both is good. You need to be passive in order to give coherent orders without being under pressure, as well as being Command's eyes on the ground, but sometimes you need to be more aggressive and push your Marines to keep fighting instead of retreating. In combat, it's better to use one word and simple commands that people can read immediately and respond accordingly to. Most importantly, keep everyone together with sticky glue. Too often I see squads fracture and wander off to help and talk to other people.

As an SL, your net value is higher than most other Marines. Stay in the center of the pack.

This all the way my friends.

This is probably the easiest way to explain the importance of an SL. While getting your hands dirty is fun and all, your job is to keep everyone organized and supported. I feel great respect for SLs that take their duty seriously and show legit care for the men under their command.

[Marcus Jackson]

I rarely see SLs use their binoculars, but it's meant to give oversight for situation awareness. Maybe in my half year of playing have I seen a SL use it less than a dozen times.

I'm going to have to agree with reno here though. I see too many SLs leading at the front lines only to be the first to put into the morgue. In fact, I had a mchat with other players on the command whitelist and everyone agreed that most of the time half of the SLs are KIA before they can even use an OB. I don't think this is entirely due to baldies playing the role, but it's players who don't understand that a SL should be similar to a BO role (with a little more combat added).

Honestly if you pick SL you shouldn't be allowed to leave the prep room without Binocs, they are practically required to get shit done whether you are a passive SL or not.