Warcrimes and POWs

[Skimmy2]

With the updated Marine Law in place, it got me thinking of the more International laws governing war.

With the very rare human vs human engagements that happen in CM, i thought it would be a good idea to help discuss and inform on what might constitute a war crime, and more importantly, the treatment of Prisoners of War (as its a "common" enough situation players may find themselves with, especially during a UPP event)

Would the USCM/UPP be bound by the Geneva Convention or equivalent in lore?
And if so, would our IC laws just be a copy of the Geneva Convention's or would we edit them to fit more in line with CM?

Would the M240a Incinerator be illegal to use against human targets?
Would Medics be protected under treaty, assuming said medic does not engage the enemy?
Are medics legally bound to provide aid to the enemy?
Would it be considered a war crime to fire upon a Pilot Officer/Maintenance Technician if they are abandoning a damaged spacecraft?

[MrJJJ]

In lore USCM has explosive-tipped rounds that are also armor piercing

Do i need to say how much that can kill a human so far that the Geneva Convention would ban it about as fast if it still existed?

[Skimmy2]

In lore USCM has explosive-tipped rounds that are also armor piercing

Do i need to say how much that can kill a human so far that the Geneva Convention would ban it about as fast if it still existed?

Except the Geneva Convention doesint ban "explosives" or "armor piercing" ammunition?

Say good by to every Artillery and Infantry Rifle ever made if they did.

[immaspaceninja]

Flamers and such are fine in the lore, i think, but UPPs and such should really stop shooting doctors.

[Skimmy2]

Doctors are considered Civilian Contractors hired by Weyland Yutani to serve onboard of the Almayer, it would automatically be a warcrime to engage them (assuming they are unarmed)

[MrJJJ]

Except the Geneva Convention doesint ban "explosives" or "armor piercing" ammunition?

Say good by to every Artillery and Infantry Rifle ever made if they did.

They did with declaration of saint petersburg, any explosive projectile less than 400 grams was prohibited to use, while later on they would prohibit expanding bullets as well.

Oh and yeah the thing about Doctors
(Seriously why was UPP folks shooting them anyway? they are the only ones, along with the CMO who know how to do surgery)

[Skimmy2]

They did with declaration of saint petersburg, any explosive projectile less than 400 grams was prohibited to use, while later on they would prohibit expanding bullets as well.

The more you know!
Good Guy Russia looking out for the world before Commies took them.

[Renomaki]

Oh and yeah the thing about Doctors
(Seriously why was UPP folks shooting them anyway? they are the only ones, along with the CMO who know how to do surgery)

Easy... Because a kill is a kill.

Doesn't matter WHO they killed, as long as they get a kill, even if it was an unarmed civilian. Players feel a sense of power when they are able to successfully end the life of another, even if it was a waste of good ammo. If a marine could Sadar a hostile human being, they would do it in a heartbeat, ammo value be damned.

[Skimmy2]

As far as treatment of POWs go though (im not sure how many laws would actually apply in our CM setting)
Though a few that I can name off the top of my head is
The Commanding Officer of the POW is responsible over their well-being.
POWs should be fed the same rations as any Marine.
Also I swear to god guys the biggest one INTERROGATION is a Warcrime, dont go all Hollywood Detective on that UPP ass, he is legally bound to not give you information.

[jusa297]

~Snip~

Fuck that shit, this is space. We torture, kill, pillage and plunder No rape because ding dong bannu the fuck out of space commies. They scum.

[Crab_Spider]

As far as treatment of POWs go though (im not sure how many laws would actually apply in our CM setting)
Though a few that I can name off the top of my head is
The Commanding Officer of the POW is responsible over their well-being.
POWs should be fed the same rations as any Marine.
Also I swear to god guys the biggest one INTERROGATION is a Warcrime, dont go all Hollywood Detective on that UPP ass, he is legally bound to not give you information.

...Where is this coming from?
Interrogation is not a war crime, if it was, then there'd be multiple risks in every battle of a war as there wouldn't be sufficient information to use for the war, that's as counter intuitive as it is stupid.

[MrJJJ]

...Where is this coming from?
Interrogation is not a war crime, if it was, then there'd be multiple risks in every battle of a war as there wouldn't be sufficient information to use for the war, that's as counter intuitive as it is stupid.

Article 12 states that prisoners of war are the responsibility of the state, not the persons who capture them, and that they may not be transferred to a state that is not party to the Convention.

Articles 13 to 16 state that prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met.

Section 1 covers the beginning of captivity (Articles 17–20). It dictates what information a prisoner must give and interrogation methods that the detaining power may use: "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion". It dictates what private property a prisoner of war may keep and that the prisoner of war must be evacuated from the combat zone as soon as possible.

The prisoner is bound to give his surname, first names, rank, date of birth and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. He must upon demand show his identity card which must contain, as a minimum requirement, this information.

In TLDR

No you can't torture these UPP fucks for your sadistic pleasures.

[Skimmy2]

...Where is this coming from?
Interrogation is not a war crime, if it was, then there'd be multiple risks in every battle of a war as there wouldn't be sufficient information to use for the war, that's as counter intuitive as it is stupid.

"No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind." From Article 17 of the 3rd Geneva Convention.

Im "pretty sure" the intention is to defend the liberties of the Soldier, whom is sworn by duty to not divulge information that would cause harm to his Sovereignty. As a soldier whom can be tried for treason for his time spent as a POW wouldnt be fun for anyone. Though thats more speculative/hearsay and I wouldnt be able to prove that at this time.

[Nick123q23]

When are we getting Intelligence roles so that we can torture UPP and be completely wrong about xenos?

[Heckenshutze]

In space, there is no law.


No seriously, UPP are told not to kill unarmed personel by mods but it's not taken that seriously since most of the times UPP is just a hostile ERT. Their sole purpose is to kill. Event is a different story

[Steelpoint]

UPP, and similar ERTs, should be encouraged during standard distress signal scenarios to not kill unarmed civilians, but shit happens.

For events, or maybe future game modes, I think there should be some punishment for wantonly murdering civilians without sufficient in game justification, I would however imagine the UPP would be slightly more tolerant of executing non-UPP citizens than the USMC would.

[Steven Sneider]

inb4 a doctor grabs the rifle and injected hyperzine in himself to become a drive-by shooter.

[Aeleto]

Wouldn't mind trying to capture a squad worthy of UPP and treating them by following laws, but this gets thrown out of the window when you're facing 4 distress beacons worthy of commies and they're murdering everyone on their path with little to no mercy.

[WinterClould]

Wouldn't mind trying to capture a squad worthy of UPP and treating them by following laws, but this gets thrown out of the window when you're facing 4 distress beacons worthy of commies and they're murdering everyone on their path with little to no mercy.

When your fighting seemingly endless waves of commies and the nightmare from hell you've been fighting on the ground just figured out how to fly the shuttle, you stop worrying about pesky little things like warcrimes and just focus on killing everything that isn't a marine.

[Tidomann]

I've been killed too many times by ERTs as an unarmed doctor after announcing my surrender. I know it comes down to the players you meet. I've mostly played as not having armour or weapons, running from fights only to surrender to someone and get point blank executed by someone else.

Time to hypo spray insta-kill injections or anaesthetics, while downing power-gaming combat stims while I use the heavy pulse rifle I got from the RO for making him drugs. Toss in some flashbangs and I'll see you guys in a week after my power-gaming ban.