The whole MP situation.

[Dolth]

Boi, you know that on real military, you would be put in jail for one week if you ditiched your uniform and then proceeded to run from the MPs, right?

I have friends in the army in my country, and just the action of saying "no" to an order from a officer, get's then brigged for 3 days AT LEAST.

You better evaluate what constitues Roleplay and whatnot, because you clearly have no idea.

In France you'd see the regiment's boss after writing a letter explaining what happened, you'd get either 10 days of jail either a -next shit you get 10 days-, and regardless of his decision, your career would be frozen for at least one year.
On another hand, real millitary won't tase your ass up on sight if you violate a law. They'd warn before doing anything and THAT is what that guy tried to tell you I guess. This server is medium, not heavy RP. If some smartass goes with a lawyer suit underneath his armor, you guys goes directly, flash/tase and handcuff while saying charges.
That's shitcurity. Telling that dude once he's in the wrong uniform and he has to change, warning afterward you'll have to detain him, then proceeding THAT would be being an actual MP.

Besides, praising heavy RP through the usual bullshit sentence I see "Duh MP are not paid to look away." is bullshit as in real life they would, as said before, tell the wrong, warn, THEN act. Which would avoid us if done ICly that kind of post, that'd avoid us angry marines, that'd avoid us dumb mutinies and much more.

[Blade2000Br]

In France you'd see the regiment's boss after writing a letter explaining what happened, you'd get either 10 days of jail either a -next shit you get 10 days-, and regardless of his decision, your career would be frozen for at least one year.
On another hand, real millitary won't tase your ass up on sight if you violate a law. They'd warn before doing anything and THAT is what that guy tried to tell you I guess. This server is medium, not heavy RP. If some smartass goes with a lawyer suit underneath his armor, you guys goes directly, flash/tase and handcuff while saying charges.
That's shitcurity. Telling that dude once he's in the wrong uniform and he has to change, warning afterward you'll have to detain him, then proceeding THAT would be being an actual MP.

Besides, praising heavy RP through the usual bullshit sentence I see "Duh MP are not paid to look away." is bullshit as in real life they would, as said before, tell the wrong, warn, THEN act. Which would avoid us if done ICly that kind of post, that'd avoid us angry marines, that'd avoid us dumb mutinies and much more.

Yep, real military is the shit.

About warning, yes, I do agree that certain MPs should warn before taking action. But this kind of thing vary from infraction to infraction.

A guy wearing a civil clothing? Warn him to get his clothes back.

A guy shooting another fellow marine once and screaming sorry? You can let it go.

A guy waking up to the briefing center and opening fire on all the marines for no reason? Tase+stun baton that guy to motherland russia.

About the mutinies, no it wouldn't. Whenever I put something new for the Privates that's in their way for the attachments, they riot. Restringed BC for smartgunners? SLs and Specs Riot.
Ask for a bag of supplies so they can get an extra attachment? They riot.

Most marines are just dumb lile that.

[Challenger]

Dolth, I wasn't talking to you specifically, the idea of making things easier for MPs to deploy and arrest suspects is more general, for example:

- MPs only need acting CMP's permission to deploy planetside
- MPs armory is always open since MPs are expected to follow the law regarding weapon code anyway
- MPs are given "general warrants" to go planetside and respond to crime immediately rather than having to wait on the Almayer for the Alamo to drop. Well we can kind of do this already by being a dropship guard, but again this relies on the CO approving it.

If you think about it, MPs are NORMALLY able to do their jobs without the assistance of the rest of the crew due to having all-access, all tools necessary for arrest and processing, and their own chain of command where they can ignore 90% of orders given them by anyone else because they'd be neglecting their duty as a result. But when they're trying to planetside for an arrest, the CO can just refuse to allow them, the PO can just intentionally delay them or kick them off the dropship, and then once they deploy the entire environment is against them with no imminent backup. So yeah, planetside is too much of a "safe zone" for Marines looking to evade the law.

Regarding warnings, yeah, it's very situational. Generally personally I only warn when I'm mandated to do it by law, or when the other person (IC) lacks a malicious, negligent, or careless reason for having chosen to break the law, or when there's a way (but not the correct way) to interpret the law for it to not be illegal to do whatever the guy did, etc., generally just "don't be a dick" things, generally unfair to brig someone if their character doesn't actually deserve it. But again, something like wearing a PO's helmet as a doctor, not gonna warn you for that when we both know what you're doing. I'll still take the time to discern motive and just RP the whole thing out before arresting, but yeah.

[Terminutter]

A guy shooting another fellow marine once and screaming sorry? You can let it go.

I disagree with that one.
I am all for the admins deciding that MPs are allowed to give warnings for things like uniform violations, petty theft (give it back, or else...), a single disarm intent, accidental tresspass and such, (in addition to the current minor weapons violation allowing it) but I am of the mind that they have to commit too many negligent actions to shoot another marine, especially at the start of the round - they have to carry a loaded gun, have safety off, and not have it holstered to shoot another marine. That should be treated as a negligent discharge leading to bodily harm.

[Snypehunter007]

On another hand, real millitary won't tase your ass up on sight if you violate a law. They'd warn before doing anything and THAT is what that guy tried to tell you I guess.

Yeah, because people are compliant most of the time, in CM, not so much.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen often.

[Philby0]

I disagree with that one.
I am all for the admins deciding that MPs are allowed to give warnings for things like uniform violations, petty theft (give it back, or else...), a single disarm intent, accidental tresspass and such, (in addition to the current minor weapons violation allowing it) but I am of the mind that they have to commit too many negligent actions to shoot another marine, especially at the start of the round - they have to carry a loaded gun, have safety off, and not have it holstered to shoot another marine. That should be treated as a negligent discharge leading to bodily harm.

I think he meant friendly fire planetside. I think we would deal with manslaughter if someone died of it, but mere friendly fire happens all the time.

[Dolth]

Yeah, because people are compliant most of the time, in CM, not so much.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen often.

Not trying to be rude but, isn't it a medium RP server? Aren't MP at least expected to RP at very least a "You're wearing a coat, remove it or be restrained?"
Instead of this, we got snowflakes rushing with flashes and tasers, saying pretty much nothing and then saying, "Hey, this is a medium RP server, MP can't look away.", and they just nod with their virtual sunglasses at each other and worst, staff are vouching that.

I just request a shout-out to MP implying they need to roleplay a bit and include a warning, just a single one, before going psycho. It's not 'looking away', it's acting properly.

► Show Spoiler

And that includes you Rhodes in the previously stated situation, you ass.

[Trench007]

Not trying to be rude but, isn't it a medium RP server? Aren't MP at least expected to RP at very least a "You're wearing a coat, remove it or be restrained?"
Instead of this, we got snowflakes rushing with flashes and tasers, saying pretty much nothing and then saying, "Hey, this is a medium RP server, MP can't look away.", and they just nod with their virtual sunglasses at each other and worst, staff are vouching that.

I just request a shout-out to MP implying they need to roleplay a bit and include a warning, just a single one, before going psycho. It's not 'looking away', it's acting properly.

► Show Spoiler

And that includes you Rhodes in the previously stated situation, you ass.

Perhaps, they are like poorly trained cops who shoot first and ask questions later.

[Snypehunter007]

Not trying to be rude but, isn't it a medium RP server? Aren't MP at least expected to RP at very least a "You're wearing a coat, remove it or be restrained?"
Instead of this, we got snowflakes rushing with flashes and tasers, saying pretty much nothing and then saying, "Hey, this is a medium RP server, MP can't look away.", and they just nod with their virtual sunglasses at each other and worst, staff are vouching that.

I just request a shout-out to MP implying they need to roleplay a bit and include a warning, just a single one, before going psycho. It's not 'looking away', it's acting properly.

► Show Spoiler

And that includes you Rhodes in the previously stated situation, you ass.

There currently isn't any "warnings" under marine law so seeing someone break a law and not enforcing it could be a jobban. Also, there is a compliant arrest procedure if they are just tazing you without you resisting.

[Dolth]

Not sure from where you think I said MP shouldn't enforce laws, but then again people are fed up of MP rushing with flash/tasers someone who has a gun out or a wrong uniform without saying a word until cuffs are in place, and that, doesn't fit proper RP.

You killed me Trench xD.

[Skimmy2]

If you are not resisting arrest (or doing something that an MP would have to immediately stop, such assault.) And an MP tazes and handcuffs you without saying a word, then AHelp it.

MPs are required to inform you of your charges and order you to lay on the ground before making an arrest.

[Dolth]

I kind pf hate having to bitch to admins in that situation. But will do.

[Steelpoint]

There should be a rule change to allow MPs the discretion to offer a warning for crimes that tally less than half an hour or so.

Give good MPs some leeway to exercise judgement and let someone off with a warning instead of forcing all MPs to go straight to cuff+jail.

That's what separates good Security from bad on standard SS13 servers.

[Troika]

If you are not resisting arrest (or doing something that an MP would have to immediately stop, such assault.) And an MP tazes and handcuffs you without saying a word, then AHelp it.

MPs are required to inform you of your charges and order you to lay on the ground before making an arrest.

Judging by previous admin behaviour, your ahelp would either be ignored, or, if Feweh saw it, cop you a warning or even a ban.

[Troika]

Oh, and for those who think he wouldn't, we're talking about the same guy who blatantly violated pred rules to gib a face hugged predator earlier, then turned off deadchat when people called him on his BS.

[Philby0]

Judging by previous admin behaviour, your ahelp would either be ignored, or, if Feweh saw it, cop you a warning or even a ban.

Honestly, not quite. As a MP, almost everytime a MP fucks up, I get questionned by staff about the situation even though I didn't ahelp.
Staff can't replay all that happened when they log dive, ahelping just to make them aware is the best and only OOC solution you have.

[Nickvr628]

There should be an addition to marine law that is something like:

"You must offer the criminal a chance to come in willingly. If he/she does so without resistance, the brig time if halfed."

This forces MPs to be less shitcurity with instant tase and cuffs, and encourages marines to comply with the MPs to get a shorter sentence. It also means that lesser crimes do not take you out of the round for nearly as long if you own up to it and are compliant with MPs.

[Philby0]

There should be an addition to marine law that is something like:

"You must offer the criminal a chance to come in willingly.

Have you read the first part of Marine law, regarding arrest procedures ? The first part of that being "Compliant Suspect (not resisting or running)" ?

If he/she does so without resistance, the brig time if halfed."

That's not how it works.

There is a fair sentence for the crime committed, if there is resistance during the arrest, the brig time goes up, because resisting is another crime in itself. If you cooperate with the MPs, they will be more than happy to give you the minimum punishment anyway.

[Swagile]

The only thing that should honestly happen right now is all brig times being halfed, and the maximum time someone is to be in jail hence being 30 minutes.

We have highRP jailtimes for a MediumRP server, and by the time most people get out of jail, they miss deployment / stocking up on meds / getting gear from Req / missing all of the start up action against the aliens when they are at lower tiers and hence manageable to fight without dying near instantly.

This is why so many marines resist; because of jail times being so high hence missing all the good shit because they are in jail.

Sure, shitcurity is a portion of it, but its mainly the TIME they have to spend in jail that is the shitty part.

[Zilenan91]

There currently isn't any "warnings" under marine law so seeing someone break a law and not enforcing it could be a jobban. Also, there is a compliant arrest procedure if they are just tazing you without you resisting.

You're an admin, so help set the policy. You are in a direct position to be able to influence MPs being allowed to warn people because you obviously recognize a problem.

[Philby0]

You're an admin, so help set the policy. You are in a direct position to be able to influence MPs being allowed to warn people because you obviously recognize a problem.

mentor =/= admin

[Philby0]

This is why so many marines resist; because of jail times being so high hence missing all the good shit because they are in jail.
Sure, shitcurity is a portion of it, but its mainly the TIME they have to spend in jail that is the shitty part.

Well when we have to arrest 4 people in the first 15 minutes for disrespect to the CO, time sure ain't what they complain about.

[Kazuko_myu]

The only thing that should honestly happen right now is all brig times being halfed, and the maximum time someone is to be in jail hence being 30 minutes.

We have highRP jailtimes for a MediumRP server, and by the time most people get out of jail, they miss deployment / stocking up on meds / getting gear from Req / missing all of the start up action against the aliens when they are at lower tiers and hence manageable to fight without dying near instantly.

This is why so many marines resist; because of jail times being so high hence missing all the good shit because they are in jail.

Sure, shitcurity is a portion of it, but its mainly the TIME they have to spend in jail that is the shitty part.

I think people resisting due to the times is just half the deal. Some just do it for the fun of it to challenge MPs, others have RP reasons, but a majority just does it for the sake of dicking around.

I don't think we need to neccessarily lower the brig times. A good security officer knows when to warn, and for what time to appropriately jail people (not including the times on the Marine Law guide) to give people reasonable imprisonments.

If you miss deployment due to you acting like an absolute retard, then, in my opinion, you totally deserve it.

[Swagile]

Again, I added that stipulation into my argument.

There will also be "those people"; they will challenge the status quo no matter what as they dislike authority and probably haven't even read half of Marine Law.

I am simply stating that tensions would lower if brig time was cut in half as it isn't as much of a round ruining experience; it won't stop everyone from breaking marine law and disrespecting Command, but it might stop some who do it as a joke and then get angry when they miss the fun stuff in the game then rebel against MP's for the rest of the time they are playing the game because they hate that one time MP's were shitters.

[Terminutter]

Again, I added that stipulation into my argument.

There will also be "those people"; they will challenge the status quo no matter what as they dislike authority and probably haven't even read half of Marine Law.

I am simply stating that tensions would lower if brig time was cut in half as it isn't as much of a round ruining experience; it won't stop everyone from breaking marine law and disrespecting Command, but it might stop some who do it as a joke and then get angry when they miss the fun stuff in the game then rebel against MP's for the rest of the time they are playing the game because they hate that one time MP's were shitters.

While I agree that penalties are typically too harsh, I also encounter an awful lot of people who will ragequit as soon as they are taken in. The last round I was CMP in was a lowpop one where we arrested maybe six people over the round. Of those, all but one ragequit, when I was strictly issuing minimum sentences (except for one dude who was pushing it and got a middleground). I even had a guy who had a five minute sentence log out!