The whole MP situation.

[Philby0]

I just discovered there are some changes to marine law since the last time I played. Pretty good, but what the fuck is this :

Drinking on Duty Consumption of any alcohol or inhibiting chemicals during a military operation or while on active duty.


INHIBITING CHEMICALS

Drinking water and breathing are now illegal.

[Swagile]

That is incredibly dumb. The only MP who would arrest someone for that is going on a power trip or intentionally being a dick. Granted, I am a bit biased against MPs every since the dropship debacle (where the only PO got brigged for almost 200 minutes after a marine let himself be squished by my landing, see my ranty post above) and it is hard to see why the MPs do these things.

I hold the opinion that if I am on the surface and MPs are trying to get me, I will just charge into the front lines and die, contributing to my team, than spend half an hour being brought back to the ship, doing brig procedures, serving my sentence, etc etc. MPs who arrest for stupid shit (meme arrests included... looking at you "disrespect") are only ruining the fun of others.

Just do the latter if MP's try to arrest you.

Roleplay on this server only ever is encouraged when its screwing over the Marine side.

[Dragoon47]

The only MP who would arrest someone for that is going on a power trip or intentionally being a dick.

I think MPs are required to arrest for crimes they see since the Marine Law as Server Rules changelog for them.

Sentencing low or high is still in the air, but I think arrests still have to happen if they're witness to it.

[Aliannera]

Its pretty annoying when your SL gets arrested for giving out flamers in his prep. "Unsecured equipment" pfft

As someone who acts on this, I never have arrested over it. I actually ahelped and was told it was fine to just have it resecured, or brought to Req. As Dragoon47 said, MPs must act if they notice a crime, and it’s in the laws. Can’t just leave flamethrowers lying around, hand them out specifically.

That said, it is listed as minimum 15 minutes brig time, which honestly is dumb. It should probably be made a warning and request to store it back, similar to a minor weapons violation.

[thatguyfromlife]

As someone who acts on this, I never have arrested over it. I actually ahelped and was told it was fine to just have it resecured, or brought to Req. As Dragoon47 said, MPs must act if they notice a crime, and it’s in the laws. Can’t just leave flamethrowers lying around, hand them out specifically.

That said, it is listed as minimum 15 minutes brig time, which honestly is dumb. It should probably be made a warning and request to store it back, similar to a minor weapons violation.

I've even seen the LAW himself Jack Knight tell the SL to put it up or get brigged, you know its a crazy time.

[solidfury7]

Flamers are considered secure if they're in squad prep.

[Dragoon47]

► Show Spoiler

Flamers are considered secure if they're in squad prep.

► Show Spoiler

The SL equipment is from the SL room, therefore it's from his department and not supposed to be left outside. Sames goes for the Spec/smartgunner/medics/enginners rooms. They are to be in those rooms and not in the general squad prep.

Words from apophis himself.

Which of these is accurate, then?

[thatguyfromlife]

Which of these is accurate, then?

The law itself considers the SL, Spec, engi, medic and SG prep room there own departments. So, flamers and pouches thrown into the prep room would be "unsecured". I have only seen the must valid hunter of MP's bee line for preps to look for this, and most give the SL about 5 seconds to put them up, so its not a big problem.

[Dragoon47]

-snip-

Thanks for that. I tried a round of MP pre-law-as-rules, and I've been too intimidated by the chance of screwing it up since then to play it at all, else I get job-banned for being the bald. Clarifications like this at least help to know what to take action on.

[Wallrus17]

tbh i think that you will always get a bit of distrust between MPs and Marines, its just how it is, but i do think communication is definitely needed, with maybe a ship wide announcement of when someone is arrested and why. Or that a double-check needs to be made with the CMP or command before the person is imprisoned.

[solidfury7]

I'll reconfirm the prep thing. We've had a lot of rulings change recently so I'll be back with info soon.

[Water Bird]

TL;DR Got banned for using an MP's ID just to escape my cell. Thoughts?

So I don't know if this is the right place for this but I wanted to hear other people's opinion on this. I also promise this isn't trying to pull sympathy or a ban appeal.

Anyway, I got banned for being, "Hypocritical as hell, as a marine, was so adamant about a MP following proceedure (sic) that he ahelped about getting stripped before timer taken off. Later on kidnaps the MP and puts him in cuffs and takes off his ID to escape him, argued that it was probably also fun for the MP. You're trying way too hard to antagonise the MP.."

So I was playing a squad medic when I got to the briefing checkpoints with a doctor already waiting to get in. It was low pop so I just shot out the windows, then an MP immediately showed up. He told me that I was under arrest for destruction of gov. property so I ran and got tased. Fair enough. Then in the brig the MP started stripping me before setting my timer. I complained that this was against the procedures and then ahelped because I was arrested by the same MP previously and he just held on to me in the brig without setting my timer. He was incompetent and left me uncuffed so, being a surly marine who had just been brigged, I tried to disarm him which seems to me to be the natural roleplay move to make. After all, if a cop lets a prisoner get one over him then that cop is probably going to get beaten up. He didn't fall over and after about 15 of my disarm attempts managed to tase me. Fair enough again.

Then while processing me and putting the timer on for 30 minutes. I asked for an appeal but after ten minutes no one came and so I started to smash the glass with the cuffs he left me in. He came in so I jumped him again and managed to cuff him. I still feel like this makes sense for a brigged marine to do. The cell door closed behind him so I quickly took off his ID and earpiece and opened the door and my locker. The mod I was chatting with off and on this whole time told me I'm not supposed to take off ID's so I put it back on the MP's person and then was just dragging him around outside my cell while I tried to work out how to get out of the brig without an ID. Eventually I just put him in an unlocked locker while he was still cuffed, and just as I did that a Lieutenant came in and I told him I was lost so he just let me out. It was great timing and my heart was pounding as I saw the MP got out of his cuffs just as the Lt opened the last door between me and sweet freedom.

But then just as I was hiding next to the Alamo waiting to go down I got banned. Now I understand that the ID theft is against the rules so I'm not disputing the ban, but that was a fun game for me. Whenever I play as MP it is generally boring as few people break the law anyway and then usually go SSD once they are in their cell. If a prisoner had managed to cuff me it would be a very exciting MP round in my opinion. But instead of being rewarded for actually managing to escape from the brig, which I thought was almost impossible without having MT support I got temp banned. I mean what is the point of even playing? I still enjoyed the experience but it was kind of a bitter end to a great story.

So what do you guys think? I didn't post here to just bitch, although it turned into that. I really want to know what you routine MP players think? Am I just a griefing asshole?

Thanks a lot, and sorry for the text wall.

[Rohesie]

That looks very low RP. See, if you only think about the round, sure, you robusted a MP and got yourself free. If you think about what a marine would do, though? Kidnap a MP, really? What do you expect for him to happen after the operation? Anyone with half a brain wouldn't do it, and those that would just would rot in a cell before being dishonorably discharged or worse.

It sounds like proper behavior for TG and the likes. And I don't mean that in a bad way, I enjoy TG myself. It's just not how CM works, really.

[Crab_Spider]

TL;DR Got banned for using an MP's ID just to escape my cell. Thoughts?

Sounds like you were griefing.

[Philby0]

Wait, you say "The mod I was chatting with off and on this whole time told me I'm not supposed to take off ID's so I put it back on the MP's person and then was just dragging him around outside my cell while I tried to work out how to get out of the brig without an ID"

If from this point on you didn't take the MPs ID, then I don't see why you would get banned for breaking the ID rule.
If the MP was unable to keep you secured, it's not you antagonising him, you were merely escaping, which is perfectly IC and not against the rules.



Now, what I'm going to write for the end of this post applies ONLY (and this is important) if all information given by Waterbird is factual and true. And if someone from staff or directly the person who banned him could give the other side of the story, it'd be great, because it's likely there's missing info.

"Hypocritical as hell as a marine, was so adamant about a MP following proceedure (sic) that he ahelped about getting stripped before timer taken off"
That is a whole load of horseshit, MARINE LAW ISNT SERVER RULES FOR MARINES, BUT IT IS FOR MPS. Calling someone hypocritical for ahelping about server rules being broken is ridiculous, considering you had only broken marine law at the moment of the Ahelp. If someone is hypocritical here, it's whoever wrote that.
"Later on kidnaps the MP and puts him in cuffs and takes off his ID to escape him, argued that it was probably also fun for the MP." If what you say is true, you were warned, understood the rule, and put the ID back. There would be no reason to ban you for it then.
"You're trying way too hard to antagonise the MP." Subjective, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened here. Trying to escape from detention isn't antagonising MPs. Baiting arrests and trying to attack them or get revenge is.

The ban reason reads like "He touched an ID once. Also a bunch of stuff I personally don't like thrown in to make the reason more believable"


From what you describe, it sounds like whoever banned you had no proper reason to do so and was just extremely salty that "REEE A MARINE ESCAPED FROM THE BRIG BAN HEEEEEE"
The truth is the MP fucked up his job SO BAD he gave you a lot of opportunities to get out, which can't even happen if procedure is properly followed.

If the ban is more than 24h, and what you say is true, appeal it.

[biscuitsakimbo]

That looks very low RP. See, if you only think about the round, sure, you robusted a MP and got yourself free. If you think about what a marine would do, though? Kidnap a MP, really? What do you expect for him to happen after the operation? Anyone with half a brain wouldn't do it, and those that would just would rot in a cell before being dishonorably discharged or worse.

It sounds like proper behavior for TG and the likes. And I don't mean that in a bad way, I enjoy TG myself. It's just not how CM works, really.

It's not low RP at all. It's unrealistic to expect a human being to act rationally in every conceivable situation, especially when you lock them in a cell. Given the amount of marines I've personally slashed to death in Brig Cells when the hive lands, you could even make the argument that escaping from the brig IS rational. Frankly, the low RP is to try and constrain peoples' choices based on a vague idea of how a marine should act at all times. USCM Marines are not Bay12 Marines, who are expected to follow specific IC marine protocols.

[Skimmy2]

It's not low RP at all. It's unrealistic to expect a human being to act rationally in every conceivable situation, especially when you lock them in a cell. Given the amount of marines I've personally slashed to death in Brig Cells when the hive lands, you could even make the argument that escaping from the brig IS rational. Frankly, the low RP is to try and constrain peoples' choices based on a vague idea of how a marine should act at all times. USCM Marines are not Bay12 Marines, who are expected to follow specific IC marine protocols.

Except USCM Marines ARE EXPECTED to follow IC Protocols......they just are less enforced OOCly.

[Water Bird]

It's not low RP at all. It's unrealistic to expect a human being to act rationally in every conceivable situation, especially when you lock them in a cell. Given the amount of marines I've personally slashed to death in Brig Cells when the hive lands, you could even make the argument that escaping from the brig IS rational. Frankly, the low RP is to try and constrain peoples' choices based on a vague idea of how a marine should act at all times. USCM Marines are not Bay12 Marines, who are expected to follow specific IC marine protocols.

This is what I was thinking. People who get arrested are going to do all kinds of stupid stuff especially if the MP allows them to. Jail break isn't against the rules after all. But I don't know if it really was grief or not which is why I posted here. It would have been a lot more fun if the MP who must be very new to the game actually RP'd instead of just spam resisting.

Wait, you say "The mod I was chatting with off and on this whole time told me I'm not supposed to take off ID's so I put it back on the MP's person and then was just dragging him around outside my cell while I tried to work out how to get out of the brig without an ID"

If from this point on you didn't take the MPs ID, then I don't see why you would get banned for breaking the ID rule.
If the MP was unable to keep you secured, it's not you antagonising him, you were merely escaping, which is perfectly IC and not against the rules.



Now, what I'm going to write for the end of this post applies ONLY (and this is important) if all information given by Waterbird is factual and true. And if someone from staff or directly the person who banned him could give the other side of the story, it'd be great, because it's likely there's missing info.

"Hypocritical as hell as a marine, was so adamant about a MP following proceedure (sic) that he ahelped about getting stripped before timer taken off"
That is a whole load of horseshit, MARINE LAW ISNT SERVER RULES FOR MARINES, BUT IT IS FOR MPS. Calling someone hypocritical for ahelping about server rules being broken is ridiculous, considering you had only broken marine law at the moment of the Ahelp. If someone is hypocritical here, it's whoever wrote that.
"Later on kidnaps the MP and puts him in cuffs and takes off his ID to escape him, argued that it was probably also fun for the MP." If what you say is true, you were warned, understood the rule, and put the ID back. There would be no reason to ban you for it then.
"You're trying way too hard to antagonise the MP." Subjective, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened here. Trying to escape from detention isn't antagonising MPs. Baiting arrests and trying to attack them or get revenge is.

The ban reason reads like "He touched an ID once. Also a bunch of stuff I personally don't like thrown in to make the reason more believable"


From what you describe, it sounds like whoever banned you had no proper reason to do so and was just extremely salty that "REEE A MARINE ESCAPED FROM THE BRIG BAN HEEEEEE"
The truth is the MP fucked up his job SO BAD he gave you a lot of opportunities to get out, which can't even happen if procedure is properly followed.

If the ban is more than 24h, and what you say is true, appeal it.

Normally I wouldn't bother expending the time to do this but I think I want to start posting regularly on CM, so here is the screen shots of the encounter. I have covered over everyone's names. I tried to get every admin message in, but I know this is not the place for ban appeals. I just want to know if my actions were justified and to show that I'm not lying, although I didn't screenshot every single message while I was in the brig just the admin stuff. If a forum mod has a problem with me posting this here I am happy to remove it. I think I didn't screenshot a bit of stuff from when I was waiting around for an appeal that never came. Next time I'll do screenshots that link up.

Ban message: https://gyazo.com/71f2932927ddcc66a54bcc55221e6970
First ahelp and escape attempt: https://gyazo.com/39bfb494a4c5beacab39e43793e602f6
Ahelping: https://gyazo.com/aa3f7a189e0cca7b7477c7138fd55338
Ahelping: https://gyazo.com/a3adf7877f12c5eb08d3b9ba3ab5986f
Successful escape and warning about taking an ID: https://gyazo.com/c7aafedaa4b9a1b33a64b18b6b0cb79c
Putting the ID back on: https://gyazo.com/e822134ab7b256e1eb39f53b8722a6a9
Trying to throw the MP against the outside brig doors: https://gyazo.com/c98d804abba11b76ae451b7ae07a9994
Mod didn't respond after this point and banned me 5-10 minutes later once I escaped: https://gyazo.com/9cdb4890facabba1caa935c0302619d9

[Blade2000Br]

This is what I was thinking. People who get arrested are going to do all kinds of stupid stuff especially if the MP allows them to. Jail break isn't against the rules after all. But I don't know if it really was grief or not which is why I posted here. It would have been a lot more fun if the MP who must be very new to the game actually RP'd instead of just spam resisting.



Normally I wouldn't bother expending the time to do this but I think I want to start posting regularly on CM, so here is the screen shots of the encounter. I have covered over everyone's names. I tried to get every admin message in, but I know this is not the place for ban appeals. I just want to know if my actions were justified and to show that I'm not lying, although I didn't screenshot every single message while I was in the brig just the admin stuff. If a forum mod has a problem with me posting this here I am happy to remove it. I think I didn't screenshot a bit of stuff from when I was waiting around for an appeal that never came. Next time I'll do screenshots that link up.

Ban message: https://gyazo.com/71f2932927ddcc66a54bcc55221e6970
First ahelp and escape attempt: https://gyazo.com/39bfb494a4c5beacab39e43793e602f6
Ahelping: https://gyazo.com/aa3f7a189e0cca7b7477c7138fd55338
Ahelping: https://gyazo.com/a3adf7877f12c5eb08d3b9ba3ab5986f
Successful escape and warning about taking an ID: https://gyazo.com/c7aafedaa4b9a1b33a64b18b6b0cb79c
Putting the ID back on: https://gyazo.com/e822134ab7b256e1eb39f53b8722a6a9
Trying to throw the MP against the outside brig doors: https://gyazo.com/c98d804abba11b76ae451b7ae07a9994
Mod didn't respond after this point and banned me 5-10 minutes later once I escaped: https://gyazo.com/9cdb4890facabba1caa935c0302619d9

I find it funny you said you posted that as a reasoning for your actions, but forgot you were in a probation and that any rule break could cause a bigger ban/perma on you again.

Also, conviniently not adding a second ahelp you did, complaining that a mod was warning you for taking off the ID.

I honestly don't like you are trying to manipulate the facts of what happened. For sure I don't like this.

[Water Bird]

I find it funny you said you posted that as a reasoning for your actions, but forgot you were in a probation and that any rule break could cause a bigger ban/perma on you again.

Also, conviniently not adding a second ahelp you did, complaining that a mod was warning you for taking off the ID.

I honestly don't like you are trying to manipulate the facts of what happened. For sure I don't like this.

I knew it would come out anyway when my probation ended so why hide? And I got banned for multikeying because I misinterpreted the rules, not for griefing so I don't really see what relevance it has to posting in the MP thread about an MP thing. Do you have the second ahelp? I didn't screenshot it and didn't mention it because, a) no one responded, and b) I only sent half of the message before accidentally hitting enter when I got excited after seeing a LT enter the brig who let me out. It was like a moment from PUBG where my heart was actually pounding which I'm somewhat ashamed to admit. But it wasn't my intention to manipulate the facts, although I don't really see that I've done that. And even if I do get banned it just means this server is not for me if even such a mild breaking of ID rules is grounds for a probationer getting perma banned (again). Once again I am not appealing the ban here. I'm just asking for opinions, which have been divided thus far, on whether I was a griefer or not.

[Philby0]

First, it's only a 24h ban, don't bother appealing it. Clearly you were banned for taking the ID, but I think it's mostly the attitude in PMs and the fact you sent a lot of them and argued, saying "c'mon this is fun" for example.
I've never seen someone banned for taking an ID if they put it back on after being warned, so it's probably the arguing plus your history. Though I stand that adding someone is hypocritical on a note is too much, the MP was completely failing at their job. That's just gonna make people not ahelp rule breaks when they see it.

To answer your main question though, managing to jailbreak because the MP failed to follow procedure that is put in place specifically to prevent jailbreak doesn't make you a griefer, no.

If jailbreaking becomes low RP by default and is bannable, there's no point in playing MP anymore.

[Water Bird]

First, it's only a 24h ban, don't bother appealing it. Clearly you were banned for taking the ID, but I think it's mostly the attitude in PMs and the fact you sent a lot of them and argued, saying "c'mon this is fun" for example.
I've never seen someone banned for taking an ID if they put it back on after being warned, so it's probably the arguing plus your history. Though I stand that adding someone is hypocritical on a note is too much, the MP was completely failing at their job. That's just gonna make people not ahelp rule breaks when they see it.

To answer your main question though, managing to jailbreak because the MP failed to follow procedure that is put in place specifically to prevent jailbreak doesn't make you a griefer, no.

If jailbreaking becomes low RP by default and is bannable, there's no point in playing MP anymore.

Ok thankyou for the advice. I agree with you and I thought the "hypocritical" stuff was just plain wrong but for a 24 hour ban who cares.
I'm not asking for a rule change or anything, but I feel like the rules could be bent a little bit regarding ID if I'm actually stuck in my cell with a handcuffed MP but the door is locked. ICly I think it would be retarded to just sit there for 15 minutes or to smash the window when my stuff was locked in the locker next to me, with hindsight I should have asked permission before taking his ID. Anyway I didn't want to hijack the thread with this I just thought it might be an interesting discussion considering how boring MP related stuff is, in my opinion at least. I should note, since that mod will probably say it anyway, that I'm banned from playing MP (think it was for going SSD but it was a while ago) but I am still interested in how it works on CM especially when you compare it with other servers that give security something to do like find the traitor.

[Philby0]

There is no need to change the ID rule, as you can shove people into doors. But I don't remember how to, I never use it.
You aren't hijacking this thread, this is part of the reason I made it too. And from experience, I believe staff would rather see you here discussing the situation casually rather than straight up making a report.

What you should do from now on is avoid arguing about anything with staff. Answer to questions, and agree to whatever they tell you. If you think you've been wronged, talk about it to staff when the round is finished.

[RobBrown4PM]

TL;DR Got banned for using an MP's ID just to escape my cell. Thoughts?

This is a roleplay server, and a mil-sim one at that. Here in Canada at least, if you commit an act that goes to a summary trial, you're not going to ever do what you want to did because you kinda want to carry on with your career. Serve your time, get disciplined, and then get back in to the force and re-commit yourself to your career.

This stuff belongs on TG, not here.

[Water Bird]

This is a roleplay server, and a mil-sim one at that. Here in Canada at least, if you commit an act that goes to a summary trial, you're not going to ever do what you want to did because you kinda want to carry on with your career. Serve your time, get disciplined, and then get back in to the force and re-commit yourself to your career.

This stuff belongs on TG, not here.

But why would MP's even have tasers then? It doesn't even make sense to have a brig system if everyone is a rational person like you suppose military folk are. People are dumb, especially your average 19 year old marine. I'm not in the military but I imagine the big US Carriers have brigs that are constantly in use. From what I understand about the Marines, largely gained by reading the Terminal Lance webcomic, it is filled with morons who drink drive, steal, lie and cheat. And if they were arrested by an incompetent policeman then I feel like the cop would get jumped, based on how cops get attacked every day by angry, irrational people.