The whole MP situation.

[Dolth]

Yesterday, a MP went planetside on his own will to arrest people who were not carrying the right uniform STRAIGHT into the battlefield, (Like, they were shooting with their rifle toward aliens, MP tazed them in the middle of the fight). I've been admin-warned for arresting the MP myself as squad acting leader cause he took my men, almost got banned, though it was okay.

So yeah, have this as an information.

[Philby0]

Winter, Dolth, Did you Ahelp these cases ? What did the admins say ?

[Winter]

No, I figured it was a stupid, petty thing to ahelp for. :/

[Dolth]

Winter, Dolth, Did you Ahelp these cases ? What did the admins say ?

Was about to be banned 3 days because I am not meant to interfere with MP. I answered the MP was interfering ICly, which gave me an IC reason to act, and besides I really needed those men cause frontline was really not so glorious.

Then I said if that isn't okay, I would stop and that, in all honesty, I thought it was. Admin stoppted boinking me and admin woke me up (I was Asleep).
Eventually the MP came half an hour later, arrested me. Fully complied, took 15 minutes and been arrested in the middle of a firefight again.

[Nickvr628]

If I am an SL and an MP shows up to take one of my men without a *very* good reason, I might have to look up the escalation rules and make use of the "aiming mode" system.

Like hell a MP is going to walk into a war zone and take one of my men because he is wearing the wrong shirt.

[Dolth]

Well, you would of been banned for that, almost happened to me.
I know that seems pretty legit, but myself being in the army, I get a MP who takes two of my guys because they have a coat and some blue socks or unusual armor. Hell I am telling him to fuck off, to me that was an IC issue but that's fine.

[Terminutter]

If I am an SL and an MP shows up to take one of my men without a *very* good reason, I might have to look up the escalation rules and make use of the "aiming mode" system.

Like hell a MP is going to walk into a war zone and take one of my men because he is wearing the wrong shirt.

That would be interfering with an arrest, forcing the MP to take you in and give you the exact same charge, as MPs are bound by the rules to enforce the law, they are not meant to overlook things (unless shit has clearly hit the fan), and they could arguably take you in for assault too, as threats of assault are to be charged as assault under marine law.

[Dolth]

Yeah you realize pulling people out of a fight, directly, is indirectly putting people in danger? That's enough for me to interfere, if we just follow RP logics. Technically the MP should wait things to calm down if he wants to arrest someone from a frontline where everyone's shooting.

PS: Why's the MP on the planet in the first place?

[Challenger]

MPs who are negligent enough in their arrest that they tase someone at the front lines who ends up being killed as a result are directly guilty of manslaughter, just ahelp it. They're not supposed to break laws.

[Nickvr628]

Yeah pulling people off the front line is shitcurity 90% of the time. If a MP wants to take my marine off the front lines, he is going to take me with him so I can personally shout at the CMP for his idiocy. Why MPs are even allowed on the ground is byond me.

If worst comes to worst, at least FF gives you some plausible deniability.

[WinterClould]

Yesterday, a MP went planetside on his own will to arrest people who were not carrying the right uniform STRAIGHT into the battlefield, (Like, they were shooting with their rifle toward aliens, MP tazed them in the middle of the fight). I've been admin-warned for arresting the MP myself as squad acting leader cause he took my men, almost got banned, though it was okay.

So yeah, have this as an information.

Ey that marine was me. I was wearing a sick detective coat I found instead of M3 armor. No clue how (had to be some fuckin snitch) but somehow that MP found out and came down to arrest me. We were pushing through the gates of lambda on big red when suddenly into the hallway comes an MP who wordlessly starts trying to taze me right on the frontlines! I managed to book it the first time he tried to get me but he kept coming back and my luck eventually ran out. The whole way to the FOB and the whole time we were at the FOB, till feweh OOC'd to everyone to stop fucking with the arrest, people were trying to help me get free, it was actually pretty great. I did actually get free again but Im 99% sure an admin put me to sleep so I couldn't run which was genuinely pretty lame. We made it back up to the ship, the CMP was nice enough to let the timer on my 40min jail sentence run while I got surgery but even with that eventually when the UPP attacked I was still trapped in sec till a UPP dude came in and naded me and free'd me from my mortal restraints.

Really don't know why the MP handled things like he did, didn't yell at me before jumping for his taser, didn't at least demand I wear armor instead of the coat? Nope just straight shoot first worry about the big picture later. Why arrest a marine when he's in the middle of a big fun fight? Why ruin someones fun time for nothing what really amounts to nothing. Seems like just like in real life even the video game police are overly focused on the letter of the law and racking up arrests with the longest sentences rather then just keeping the peace. MP's could do so much better if they let people off easier on things that really aren't massive deals. Most of the time all people need is a slap on the wrist from someone with authority and they will fix their shit. I could give examples but I've already wrote a lot here. Just want everyone to get the idea that this is a game, you can be a hard ass and a stickler for the rules while still going easy on people.

(I will now list examples even though I said I was getting tired of typing. Guess I caught a second wind) Guys out of uniform? Sure you could arrest him but wouldn't it be so much better for everyone if you just forced him to get dressed? Guys get a little rough and someone punches someone else? You could stun his ass and drag him to lock up for assault but wouldn't it just be so much better for everyone if you told them to cut their shit and if they did it again you'd kick his ass, and actually do kick their ass if they do it again? Someones doesn't have their gun out? You could smash their face into the nearby window but wouldn't it be so much better just to tell them to put that shit away, and if they don't know how or where teach them the backpack trick or tell them to put it in their prep room? Medics in medbay instead of briefing? Sure you could arrest them and make them miss the first drop and maybe even fuck some marines that get wounded early over, but hey, would it be sooooo much better for everyone if you just told them to hurry the fuck up and pushed them into gearing up faster? A lot of MP's already do these nice things but clearly a lot of them could do better. Sure plenty of people will have fuck ups and need to be brigged and maybe even brigged for a long time, but really most people are just making honest little mistakes that don't need harsh or even real punishment at all.

[Dolth]

MPs who are negligent enough in their arrest that they tase someone at the front lines who ends up being killed as a result are directly guilty of manslaughter, just ahelp it. They're not supposed to break laws.

To me that was an IC issue, it was dealt ICly AKA I got few men to disarm/push him, and I got cuffed, then got admi boinked. So no, from now I think "the whole MP situation" is about mixing IC and OOC. What can be done, and what can't be done. To me those rules are too unclear and leads to admins point of view, and not yours, which makes boink while you think it's alright.

[Winter]

Honestly, I just have no idea why an MP me repeatedly while buckled to a bed. *shrugs* I just - yeah. Figured a pepperspraying wasn't worth bothering people for.

Edit: Cut out a name.

[ExGame]

I feel like MPs should really not be allowed down on the ground, like at all, even when arrests are in order.
If the CO/XO/CMP is REALLY desperate to arrest THAT ONE marine and get them off the front lines he can make an announcement or atleast order their SL or squad to arrest them, and if his squad/SL doesn't want to arrest him then he is clearly not enough of a threat to hinder or even negatively impact the situation.

If that actually kicks in that the marines on the ground don't want to arrest them, tough luck, wait for them to come back up to the Almayer for arrest, and they most probably will sometimes due to injuries needing tending at medbay.
Otherwise if you're really desperate you can also arrest the entire squad for disobeying you once they're up at the Almayer because of some reason, but that's at your own discretion, because if there's shit happening that warrants the entire squad to evacuate then there is something that probably warrants more attention than their arrest.

After all, if it were about RP/IC reasons the MPs would most likely let shit like that slide and arrest them post-operation to resolve it, but clearly MPs here are looking to punish the OOC player playing that character because they have to put him behind jails during operation time.

[Dolth]

After all, if it were about RP/IC reasons the MPs would most likely let shit like that slide and arrest them post-operation to resolve it, but clearly MPs here are looking to punish the OOC player playing that character because they have to put him behind jails during operation time.

Amen to that.
And also to SL doing the arrest, or anyone basicly, as long as a 'warrant' is issued. So far MP main job is to 'arrest marines', which lead to bending anything they see as a fitting failure to follow one of the Marine Laws, just because its their shift-job purposes, and that leads to retarded stuff.

Also, insisting on the fact we need to clarify how and what can a marine do to resist an arrest. Not trying to do some advertising, but mostly to avoid improper escalation, retarded mutinies (Just like we had today), and worst.

[Voldirs]

I think that the situation about MPs is pretty bad.
Maybe staff should reconsider some points, because it feels like shitcuriy literally have admin patronship, which makes situation even worse.
I ask the staff to guide these wild MPs somehow OR to let the marines to interfere with them with non-lethal ways, like disarming, pushing, cuffing and something like that as long as it does not turn into bloodbath, which happens sometimes, as I see.
Also, I cant understand, why, according to Chain of Command, regular MPs are higher than your own SL. Also, why they have the same rank that of the squad leader? Most squad leaders are MUCH more charismatic, combat-trained and command-worthy individuals than regular MPs. They also have MUCH MORE responsibility than MPs.
I feel really strange about it

[Jerkface00]

Also, I cant understand, why, according to Chain of Command, regular MPs are higher than your own SL. Also, why they have the same rank that of the squad leader? Most squad leaders are MUCH more charismatic, combat-trained and command-worthy individuals than regular MPs. They also have MUCH MORE responsibility than MPs.

MP's are higher on the chain of command because they are ship's crew and not combat personnel. They're less likely to be dead by the time they're needed to take charge of the operation.

They have the same rank because they're both enlisted men. As far as going up higher then a Staff Sargent as an enlisted man in the Colonial Marines, you're going to have a hard time, or you're going to need to specialize in something - like MP's. As far as charisma goes, that's dependent ENTIRELY on the people in the position at the time. Some SL's are as mute and bald as the baldest of MP's. MP's are combat trained at least to the same extent as SL's. I would argue because they are expected to deal with people using less-than-lethal measures, using lethal measures AND expected to know as well as apply marine law in both situations that MP's are actually better trained in combat.

As far as the argument of SL's having more responsibility; I would suggest it is actually the MP's who have more responsibility. Whereas a squad leader need only execute the orders of his OIC and attempt to preserve the lives of their men in doing so, MP's must do the same while also preserving the lives of the 3 other squads of marines, preserve the lives of the members of the ship's crew, and ensure that the law is enforced.

TL:DR MP's do pretty much everything SL's do and more.

[Nickvr628]

Wat

Glorified hangar police that keep the marines from cutting in line and injecting peradaxin are more combat experienced than a Staff Sergeant who has spent his entire 8+ year career in combat, and has been entrusted a squad of up to 12 combat ready marines?

Your logic there is a bit flawed. Also the Ship's crew exists in a separate chain of command than the combat personnel. They all answer to the CO but the ship's (and it's crew's) purpose is to move and support the marines. The squad members should answer to their SLs, staff officers, and CO/XO. Nobody else has innate command authority over them.

[Crab_Spider]

Wat

Glorified hangar police that keep the marines from cutting in line and injecting peradaxin are more combat experienced than a Staff Sergeant who has spent his entire 8+ year career in combat, and has been entrusted a squad of up to 12 combat ready marines?

Your logic there is a bit flawed. Also the Ship's crew exists in a separate chain of command than the combat personnel. They all answer to the CO but the ship's (and it's crew's) purpose is to move and support the marines. The squad members should answer to their SLs, staff officers, and CO/XO. Nobody else has innate command authority over them.

So you're saying that it's flawed for MPs, who are up above with other department heads, and have the duty to arrest and detain Marines, especially rogue Marines, investigate crimes professionally (should that actually occur with proper safeguards), and have to protect the ship while the Marines are groundside, to have a higher ranking than SLs in the Chain Of Command?

[misto]

i rarely have trouble with mps because i rarely bother talking much when aboard ship and then proceed quietly to the planet to die to aliens

except for that time i got to be upp and the mps foiled our plots and plans but fair is fair

[Voldirs]

MP's are higher on the chain of command because they are ship's crew and not combat personnel. They're less likely to be dead by the time they're needed to take charge of the operation.

They have the same rank because they're both enlisted men. As far as going up higher then a Staff Sargent as an enlisted man in the Colonial Marines, you're going to have a hard time, or you're going to need to specialize in something - like MP's. As far as charisma goes, that's dependent ENTIRELY on the people in the position at the time. Some SL's are as mute and bald as the baldest of MP's. MP's are combat trained at least to the same extent as SL's. I would argue because they are expected to deal with people using less-than-lethal measures, using lethal measures AND expected to know as well as apply marine law in both situations that MP's are actually better trained in combat.

As far as the argument of SL's having more responsibility; I would suggest it is actually the MP's who have more responsibility. Whereas a squad leader need only execute the orders of his OIC and attempt to preserve the lives of their men in doing so, MP's must do the same while also preserving the lives of the 3 other squads of marines, preserve the lives of the members of the ship's crew, and ensure that the law is enforced.

TL:DR MP's do pretty much everything SL's do and more.

How the MP do "preserving the lives of the 3 other squads of marines"? MPs do not join Marines in combat, how they could preserve their lives? Also, MPs do not lead any men in combat (most time), they dont have any men under their command, so they are basically have responsibility to guard marines and civillians only aboard the Almayer and enforcing the law. Thats it. Not so much responsiility for that rank.

[Dolth]

Think we're going a bit off topic here...

Imo. MP being SSGT is fine.
Also there's some useful sentence and rule in the army IRL (French one at least) : "Functions is above rank."

Been told to gtfo from a corporal's office (quarter master) and I am a sergeant, cause I came 'too soon' after a request.

MP having same rank but higher authority is normal. Even if they'd be corporals. Rank IS STRICTLY NOT the final word if you stick to RP.

[solidfury7]

In the last month or so, MPs have become 10x worse, either due to the expanded and rather open interpretation of a lot of crimes or perhaps due to the normalisation of exceedingly over the top MP who will infract you for the slightest infraction and try rack up your times for any other reasons.

I'd like to remind MPs that you are human and you do not have to outright follow every "crime" with a sentence, merely a warning or simply overlook it.

[coroneljones]

In the last month or so, MPs have become 10x worse, either due to the expanded and rather open interpretation of a lot of crimes or perhaps due to the normalisation of exceedingly over the top MP who will infract you for the slightest infraction and try rack up your times for any other reasons.

I'd like to remind MPs that you are human and you do not have to outright follow every "crime" with a sentence, merely a warning or simply overlook it.

Overlooking it is not an option, as said by apop, they are not there to let it slide, the only "official" warning as a punishment worthy crime is minor weapons protocol violation.
If an MP just overlooks every crime since "It doesnt harm the marine team, it might even help them" that might fall under neglect of duty which might result in a jobban

[Thucydides]

Elijah 'Shrimp' Hunt

I mean, if you want to start naming names that's fine, but your side of the story isn't exactly complete and accurate.

1. You were bucklecuffed in your cell as I was undoing your handcuffs. 2. I had previously misplaced my flash and have seen other notable non-shit MPs use pepper spray as a replacement - right or wrong. 3. I have previously had people try to run as I was un-cuffing them, regardless of how compliant they had been previously and what they had promised me. Especially when room flashed. 4. I clicked once but it shot twice, and it's not like I actively abused you before or after so I imagine chalking it up to lag is probably a safer assumption than my index finger's bloodlust. 5. I repeatedly apologized to you IC after you made it VERY clear that you had been double sprayed, and would have in OOC if you had gone that route or ahelped. This certainly wasn't my finest hour, but it pales in comparison to what I've seen other MPs do.

I don't dislike you, Rain. But I also tend to think of myself as a less ruthless MP, so naming and shaming for an aberration from the norm just seems a bit unfair, at least without defending myself.

Regardless, I think this just goes back to show that we need a lawyer/JAG figure onboard. Someone to sort out greviances and mixed stories with authority over the MPs. The WO is too biased (or too ruthless themselves) to accomplish that role.