The whole MP situation.

[Philby0]

Okay so this is a problem that you're ALL aware of : people don't like MPs

It's something you see with sec on other servers and it's really what led me to play Sec/MP in the first place, however Marine Law is particularly well written and most MPs aren't shitcurity. Most of the time when people say "Bored MP" it's just a guy trying to do his job by strictly following the law.

It's complicated because being too strict leads to jail time for people who committed no crime or a very minor offence. Being too nice leads to people getting away with crimes. When MPs act bad marines distrust them (and rightfully so), are less cooperative, and it gets even harder for MPs to do their job. Vicious circle and all.

Now I really think we can fix that problem, because I know the military police can do its job fairly and efficiently, but I think this doesn't need any change in the code nor the rules.
I feel communication would help, both within the military police and between MPs and all the other jobs, as well as correct procedure.

For example just yesterday, someone radios in about a MP arresting him for nothing, I tried looking for them to see what was going on and avoid a possibly useless arrest. Marines wouldn't tell me where they were though (Saying we'd just help the MP) so I found them a bit later in brig. Turns out the guy was in jail for blocking the path of the officer during a chase. The CMP actually decided to restrain the MP until he could interrogate him.

Maybe we could make annoucements when a case is closed to let marines know what's up, with name, job, reason, and sentence.

What I suggest for the MPs is to focus on what really deserves jail, be cool with the marines, and always try and keep the safety and security of the crew as a whole in mind, including those we arrest. Consider this, if some grunt has no free slot to holster their weapon in the RO line, consider taking the time and responsibility to hold it for them until they get to briefing.

For marines, there's not much you can do, try to RP the issues, when an officer comes and says you are to be interrogated or jailed, resisting isn't a logical idea, at least avoid escalating violence, it will just take much longer than talking your way through the situation.

That's just me though,
Any suggestions, thoughts, on how to have a better and more likable MP, from any point of view, is appreciated.

[MrJJJ]

Feweh himself is aware and has said in mchat himself that some MP's are subtlety griefing using Marine Law, when the change will happen is...unknown to say the least. but hey at least the staff is aware of MP's being shitheads.

[Philby0]

I don't think MPs are shitheads, on the contrary, it's just a difficult job to do if procedures aren't followed. It's kind of the same thing with coppers IRL, but it's easier to manage on 2D spessmarines.

People being unaware of the good thing MPs do is a problem, and I think more transparency would be a huge step forward. In the example I gave, one MP did not follow procedure, and was then held responsible for it, but all the crew knew was that one guy got jailed for almost nothing.
It's basically a topic to discuss on how to be good military police.

[Casgair]

Loads of complaints about MPs brigging people for shit like "SO spawns with gun, forgets to put it in locker" and "Marine comes out of cryo not wearing uniform" to the point where head staff have said it's a problem. So, yeah, there's certainly more than a few shitheads out there.

[KingKire]

The problem with military police is that i've found that mp's fail to document *anything*. Its soo hard to deliver impartial justice when both sides are giving a verbal argument, no evidence or permanent anything.

Really wish somebody could take the time to give a copy/paste MP fill-out form for crimes committed because i had to rip an arm and a leg out of my mp's to get a written report of what happened during a crime when i was a senior officer.

It feels bad when a mp player doesnt do his job correctly, and theres nothing that you can do to argue against them because, there's no evidence of anything at all.

of course, this is spaceman simulator game, so it would be a little crazy to have a more detailed evidence system, but i think it would really help if there was a marine law that forced mp's to document a crime down and file it away as soon as they are free to do so. (Rule x0-0, proper documentation rule; mp's must provide an written and accurate summary of the arrest to be filed as soon as possible, with proper suspect and witness statements,crime committed, punishment given, and any evidence used to process the verdict. Failure to follow the rule or forging false summaries can lead to demotion or brig time.)

Or at least, have them document any crime thats over 5-10 minutes of brig time.


I think it would help curb a little bit of the excessive mp-ing if you have to actually do a little bit of what police do with actual crimes, jesk docky for most of the clocky.

[Moon Tune]

-

This reminds me that I made a sample for a Colonial Marines version of an Arrest Warrant. Maybe make it so MPs always have to make an Arrest Warrant before taking any action, like on Baystation.

http://textuploader.com/dk7dd

[Philby0]

Personally, when I've seen MPs arrest for no reason, they were usually dealt with by their superiors, be it CMP or higher in command, but then again I haven't been here so long.

Paperwork is a good idea, I'll try to do it whenever I play MP now. At least for detainment.

The arrest warrant is very interesting, if we had an interrogation warrant that would be great as well, sometimes we have to go get people simply to hear them about something, so proving they're not under arrest would help.

[Swagile]

Paperwork for sentences above 10 minutes would drastically cut down on shitcurity.

[Symbiosis]

Paperwork for sentences above 10 minutes would drastically cut down on shitcurity.

[Tidomann]

The real issue is 80% of the MPs don't even use the computer to set arrest status, or fill out the minor charge/major charge areas. It's so easy to document Marine X set to arrest by command of Y SO/XO/CO over radio for _________________ at 12:25 operation time.

Paperwork can always be filled out later when they are brought to the brig. In fact- if an MP needs to be watching all prisoners there is little reason to not do the paperwork anyway.

Arrest Warrant

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][large][b]United States Colonial Marine Corps[/b][/large]
in the jurisdiction of the
USS Almayer

[b]ARREST WARRANT[/b][/center]

This document serves as authorization and notice for the arrest of [small](name of person to be arrested)[/small] _[u][field][/u]____ for the crime(s) of:
[field]

Date: _[u][date][/u]__

_[u][field][/u]____
[small]Signature of person authorizing arrest[/small]
_[u][field][/u]____
[small]Signature of second person authorizing arrest, if applicable[/small]

Crime Report

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[large][b][center]USMC High Command Official Document[/b][/center][/large]
[i][center]USS ALMAYER[/i][/center]
[center][small]USMC Crime Report[/small][/center]
[hr]
[br]
Suspect name: [field][br]
Crimes committed: [field][br]
Time of occurrence: [field][br]
Location(s) of occurrence: [field][br]
Persons involved: [field][br]
[br]
Details of Crime: [field][br]
Evidence of Crime: [field][br]
Arresting officer: [field][br]
Arresting officer Signature: [field][br]

Criminal Prosecution Form

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][b][u]Criminal Prosecution Form[/b][/u][/center][br]
[hr][br]
[small][i]This form records the event and circumstances of the criminal prosecution of this crewmember. A fully filled out form is required to validate sentence! Make sure to update criminal database file of the prosecuted in addition to this form![/i][/small][br]
[br]
[b]Offender's name: [/b][field][br]
[b]Offender's title: [/b][field][br]
[b]Crime(s) committed: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[small][i](Fill out if applicable)[/i][/small][br]
[b]Witness(es): [/b][field][br]
[b]Interrogation conducted by: [/b][field][br]
[i]Transcript attached?(yes/no): [/i][field][br]
[b]Item(s) taken into evidence: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[b][u]Sentence: [/u][/b][field][br]
[i]Modifying factors: [/i][field][br]
[b]Sentence interval (if applicable): [/b][field][br]
[b]Sentenced by: [/b][field][br][br]
[small][i]Permabrig must be validated by the Chief MP or Acting Commander! Executions must be validated by the Captain![/i][/small][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[br]
[center][b]Prisonner Release Form[/b][/center][br]
[small][i]Fill out in the event of releasing this prisonner (if applicable)[/i][/small][br]
[b]Sentence served to full extent? (yes/no): [/b][field][br]
[i]If no, reason for early release: [/i][field][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]

Confession

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][b][u]Criminal Confession[/b][/u][/center][br]
[br]
[i]I,[/i][small](name)[/small] [field][i],[/i][small](title)[/small] [field] [i]hereby declare, that I committed the crime(s) of[/i] [small](crime(s))[/small][field] [i]against[/i][small] (victim(s))[/small] [field] [i]in collaboration with[/i] [small](accomplice(s))[/small][field][i]. I accept the consequences of my actions and face the sanctions deemed appropriate by Marine Law. I understand, that this confession is non-withdrawable, non-changeable and is admissible as evidence of my guilt in criminal proceedings.[/i][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]

[Crab_Spider]

The real issue is 80% of the MPs don't even use the computer to set arrest status, or fill out the minor charge/major charge areas. It's so easy to document Marine X set to arrest by command of Y SO/XO/CO over radio for _________________ at 12:25 operation time.

Paperwork can always be filled out later when they are brought to the brig. In fact- if an MP needs to be watching all prisoners there is little reason to not do the paperwork anyway.

Arrest Warrant

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][large][b]United States Colonial Marine Corps[/b][/large]
in the jurisdiction of the
USS Almayer

[b]ARREST WARRANT[/b][/center]

This document serves as authorization and notice for the arrest of [small](name of person to be arrested)[/small] _[u][field][/u]____ for the crime(s) of:
[field]

Date: _[u][date][/u]__

_[u][field][/u]____
[small]Signature of person authorizing arrest[/small]
_[u][field][/u]____
[small]Signature of second person authorizing arrest, if applicable[/small]

Crime Report

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[large][b][center]USMC High Command Official Document[/b][/center][/large]
[i][center]USS ALMAYER[/i][/center]
[center][small]USMC Crime Report[/small][/center]
[hr]
[br]
Suspect name: [field][br]
Crimes committed: [field][br]
Time of occurrence: [field][br]
Location(s) of occurrence: [field][br]
Persons involved: [field][br]
[br]
Details of Crime: [field][br]
Evidence of Crime: [field][br]
Arresting officer: [field][br]
Arresting officer Signature: [field][br]

Criminal Prosecution Form

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][b][u]Criminal Prosecution Form[/b][/u][/center][br]
[hr][br]
[small][i]This form records the event and circumstances of the criminal prosecution of this crewmember. A fully filled out form is required to validate sentence! Make sure to update criminal database file of the prosecuted in addition to this form![/i][/small][br]
[br]
[b]Offender's name: [/b][field][br]
[b]Offender's title: [/b][field][br]
[b]Crime(s) committed: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[small][i](Fill out if applicable)[/i][/small][br]
[b]Witness(es): [/b][field][br]
[b]Interrogation conducted by: [/b][field][br]
[i]Transcript attached?(yes/no): [/i][field][br]
[b]Item(s) taken into evidence: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[b][u]Sentence: [/u][/b][field][br]
[i]Modifying factors: [/i][field][br]
[b]Sentence interval (if applicable): [/b][field][br]
[b]Sentenced by: [/b][field][br][br]
[small][i]Permabrig must be validated by the Chief MP or Acting Commander! Executions must be validated by the Captain![/i][/small][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]
[br]
[center][b]Prisonner Release Form[/b][/center][br]
[small][i]Fill out in the event of releasing this prisonner (if applicable)[/i][/small][br]
[b]Sentence served to full extent? (yes/no): [/b][field][br]
[i]If no, reason for early release: [/i][field][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]

Confession

► Show Spoiler

Code: Select all

[center][b][u]Criminal Confession[/b][/u][/center][br]
[br]
[i]I,[/i][small](name)[/small] [field][i],[/i][small](title)[/small] [field] [i]hereby declare, that I committed the crime(s) of[/i] [small](crime(s))[/small][field] [i]against[/i][small] (victim(s))[/small] [field] [i]in collaboration with[/i] [small](accomplice(s))[/small][field][i]. I accept the consequences of my actions and face the sanctions deemed appropriate by Marine Law. I understand, that this confession is non-withdrawable, non-changeable and is admissible as evidence of my guilt in criminal proceedings.[/i][br]
[br]
[b]Signature: [/b][field][br]
[hr]

Funny thing is that I've done this, but no one bothered setting it up and when they're submitted, there'd be grammatical and spelling errors, Spoony and Scrat would see them and I would immediately stop documenting.

This is hard to do on a round with full shitlers, and with the amount of detail you're supposed to put in, average joes would be intimidated into thinking they're writing an essay.

[Philby0]

Thanks for the forms, I used the Criminal Prosecution Form this round. It didn't find much use as there were almost no arrests, but MPs using the records system and proper documentation is pretty well received. It also makes our job much simpler if we just take a minute to set the records and fill the form.

Maybe we should have a bunch of forms already made in a folder, to make things easier, because writing them down at roundstart is kind of a pain, we should realistically have some of the paperwork ready.

[FelixG]

Simple solution - paperwork and forms. Some of the above forms should be in WO office.
MP starts with clipboard with forms. To set timer above 10 ( or 20 or 30) minutes you need to feed cell console filled form.

[completelynewguy]

While the paperwork templates are being spread around, why not add in a copy machine to the Brig? Should make sense if the MPs have to do tons of paperwork.

[Philby0]

The two forms I now use are the criminal prosecution one, and I modified the template to make some MP complaint forms. I know we've got carbon copy but a photocopy machine should be there somewhere.

[apophis775]

MPs are supposed to enforce any law breach they see. They aren't there to "look the other way".

[Karmac]

I'd say the stigma only exists because the only time a marine reads marine law is when he's trying to prove to a staff member he was arrested '4no raisins'.

[KingKire]

i would argue against karmac. there has been a few good times where mp's tend to drop the hammer on people when it only required a light finger push. I tend to follow things by the book, and if i do go over the lines, i have never resisted, going to the brig to either argue my case, or apologize at failing to follow the law.

Out of the say, 15ish or so times ive been brigged, i would say about a good 2/3's+ majority of them started off with a heavy amount of tazering/ stun baton to the face while i stood still and offered no resistance( which is always my go to action). Ive definitely been arrested several more times by other marines over-exaggerating problems to mp's, usually by players who's maturity is sometimes suspect ("She's trying to kill me with hat!?!"" She stole several hundred metal plates!!" "She tried to burn down ship with glass of kerosene!!!". Ive gotten out of a few, but not most, which is saddening.

Mp's are needed.
I know what happens when you mp's lack the power to control a ship against the *Byond Players* who misbehave, and it leads to a much worse game. But i hate rule abuse, and i think that mp's sometimes have too much of a consequence-free world when it comes to dropping heavy sentences, and with such heavy power should be held by people who understand the weight of the iron fist they carry.

[Karmac]

Well yeah I can agree with that, an MP tried to arrest me once after I jokingly punched a PO that insulted me. The PO had to drag the bastard off me and explain it was fine for a whole 5 minutes.

[Marcus Jackson]

I've personally never had a problem with MPs that wasn't solved by talking calmly... but I know for a fact I'm an exception not the rule.

I usually play Sec or Detec on Paradise (though that's even more rarely than I play here), so I know there are asshats on both sides of the argument that don't really make the whole situation any better.

[Dolth]

I tried to hug a mp one day. Had my backpack in active hands. Told him sorry and went on the ground when he asked. I've been arrested for assault.

Shutcurity much?
Also by respect for him, I won't say it was Rhodes.

[Crab_Spider]

I tried to hug a mp one day. Had my backpack in active hands. Told him sorry and went on the ground when he asked. I've been arrested for assault.

Shutcurity much?
Also by respect for him, I won't say it was Rhodes.

You hit me with a shovel and I knocked 3 minutes off your sentence. Just because it was caused by OOC reason doesn't mean there will be IC repurcussions.

[Dolth]

A right it was a shovel. Which wasn't even deployed.
Hey if I goes to shake a cop's hand and I stumble on something and end in headbutting his nose then goes full cooperation saying it was an accident I hereby doubt I'll get something.

As I said, you're quite an exemple of shitcurity Rhodes. Thanks for helping the thread.

[Karmac]

>bashes police

>confused when charged with assault

>"but officer I apologised for bashing you in the face!"

>that's still assault

[Martzin]

Honestly the new MP laws in place put too much restrictions on the Marines. It feels like toddler treatment. I know its for RP and all but it's too restrictive.

Also alot of MPs are touchy fags so it only makes things worse when they immediately pull out their tazer for someone not having their chest armor on.