M39 Submachine gun AKA useless peashooter

[Swagile]

Actually SMG mags have the same size as pulse rifle mags right now so you can't even hold more of them

was it lowered again? im pretty sure SMG's held like 42 or something like that, and pulse now hold 32

[Zilenan91]

The actual magazine size is bigger (and it got reduced with the ammo and storage update down to 40 from 48) but the magazines themselves are the same size as pulse rifle magazines so you can't hold more SMG mags than you can pulse rifle mags. In terms of ammo economy this is pretty fucked because pulse rifle bullets individually probably do double the damage, and are more accurate than individual SMG bullets.

[solidfury7]

SMGs need a slight buff, however regarding the ap issue, I think it's fine as it is

[Renomaki]

Say what you want, but the SMG will always hold a place in my bald heart.

Yes, it is a weak weapon designed more to kill/suppress T1 aliens and nothing more, but you gotta admit, being able to whip it out on a whim and start firing without a delay while ALSO retaining your full speed is useful.

That is the trade-off of the weapon: You lose stopping power in exchange for speed and agility, and when you are playing a role like Engineer or Medic, having a weapon you can quickly access is very useful, moreso if you slapped a rail-light on it so you can see a threat sooner.

Sure, you could just use a pulse rifle if you really need the firepower, but unless you got a gyro on it, it will hold you back more than anything. Leave the Pulse Rifles to the grunts, their job is to kill shit after all.

[Karmac]

The m39 is a bad gun and people that use it should feel bad

[Crab_Spider]

The m39 is a bad gun and people that use it should feel bad

What if I don't feel bad?

[Karmac]

Then your a rebel without a cause

[Swagile]

if you want mobility + damage, gyro shotgun buckshot is the way to go

if your a scrub, use slugs for the mid range capabilities

your still doing more damage with slugs than you ever will be with a SMG

[Casany]

Well, if I remember correctly AP bullets actually do less damage in exchange for armor piercing. For the pulse rifle it's basically billed because of firerate+the amount of armor piercing, but with SMG bullets that's whatcha get. I've killed aliens using regular SMG mags, about 7 bullets to crit a full health mature runner, 9 for a young hunter, so on. I think it's a good weapon personally because I'm more of a speed and dodge Linda person rather than an overwhelming force kinda person. While I will use a pulse rifle, if I get my hands on the SMG holster I'll most definitively use that.

[completelynewguy]

SMG as a backup weapon is great. Aliens hear your gun become an alarm clock or make an obnoxious click? Whip out the M39 and they start backing off. Also, try to use the M39 as a pistol; not really worth preserving unless you invested some attachments onto it.

[Luna Eon Fray]

SMG's are definitely a noob trap.

If you see a medic / engineer carry a SMG, its because they are a pro that is desperate for storage space and only took it for its high volume of fire that allows it to scare newbie xenos away, or they are genuinely new and thought to pick it over the pulse rifle / shotgun because they needed the other hand.

The former happens 10% of the time, the later 90% of the time. So its a safe bet that if you see a medic / engineer with an SMG, assume bald and a waste of a slot.

You can't even consider that true anymore since they reduced the ammo capacity of the M39 and the mags takes the same space as the M41A1 Mk2

[HKO20006]

Godlike hunter/runner killer? No it's not at all, this gun is fucking garbage.

I point blanked a Mature Hunter 9 times with AP rounds for this and he was still at around 30% health it's fucking worthless.

This is also ignoring the actual role this thing has, that being it having so much overlap with pistols that it makes them entirely obsolete; because the M39 is one-handed it makes sidearms completely pointless so it restricts game design in that sense because why would a spec or a lot of other jobs consider taking a pistol when they could just bring an M39 along? That's completely disgregarding the fact that this thing sucks dick. Like excuse my language but thing has no purpose, it is a worthless gun. Straying off topic a bit, I currently consider the M4A3 of all things better than the M39 at the moment because while it does slightly less damage you can get a sidearm pouch and store it in your pocket and have it available for use at any moment. It even has AP rounds available in the same way as the M39! And incendiary at the RO! If what is supposed to be a primary weapon is not competitive with sidearms then this thing is just broken.

I don't think this thing could be buffed without making it still having the gun overlap problem either, this thing makes handguns obsolete so why would anyone ever take them if this thing was ever made not useless? It needs a whole rework to be two-handed or something to make it not just this horrible trap that engineers and medics take that ends up killing them because it does zero damage.

Edit: As for the AP rounds, if the SMG AP rounds don't penetrate crusher armor then what the fuck are they for? Outside of crushers, no xeno has a truly absurd amount of armor that mostly nullifies basic bullets like the crusher does, so this combined with other upgraded T3 castes and the Queen is why they're useful. They even have a built-in tradeoff by doing less damage, but if you not only make the bullets do less damage but make them still able to bounce off the front of the xeno, then these have literally zero purpose because you sacrifice damage and get NOTHING in return. This thing is fundamentally on a basic level a failure.

The front of Queen and Ravager do deflect M39 rounds. I have seen PO soloed a Queen with M39 AP rounds so it works (burst to the face of course). I believe the penetrate RNG is related to distance and it might just be not close enough.

[NethIafins]

I main M39 on my field engi and sometimes field medi roles, since using heavy rifles/shotguns even with gyro can be messy when you are trying to do something else with your other hand (scanning, building, pills)
Sometimes I go "full spec" build with shotgun in back scabbard, m39 in rig, and sniper rifle in armor storage for "Jack of All Trades" specialist build

Also I pick M39 for those classes because I like muh arpee. SMGs are IRL medical/engineering/shocktroop weapon and it is lighter

[Heckenshutze]

Dual m39, won't say no more. Yet, I do prefer the shotgun. Even as a main weapon

[Sabactus]

Seems complaining about a pistol caliber not penetrating what is essentially a biological armored fighting vehicle is a little foolhardy. This server seems to strive to be grounded somewhat in reality. That being considered, the fact that it was an AP round is really irrelevant. To defeat armor you need one of two things working for you; mass and/or velocity. If your bullet is big enough or going fast enough it has a good chance of defeating armor. The SMG uses pistol caliber ammunition and as such doesn't have the requisite mass or velocity to really have any hope of defeating a hardened target, at least not a hope grounded in reality.

[Skimmy2]

Seems complaining about a pistol caliber not penetrating what is essentially a biological armored fighting vehicle is a little foolhardy. This server seems to strive to be grounded somewhat in reality. That being considered, the fact that it was an AP round is really irrelevant. To defeat armor you need one of two things working for you; mass and/or velocity. If your bullet is big enough or going fast enough it has a good chance of defeating armor. The SMG uses pistol caliber ammunition and as such doesn't have the requisite mass or velocity to really have any hope of defeating a hardened target, at least not a hope grounded in reality.

There are plenty of armor piercing pistol caliber rounds, 5.7mm as a easy example vs Kevlar.
And I personally know of 9mm ammunition designed to pierce hard surfaces but expand and break on soft targets.
The issue should be that we dont know how thick xenomorph carapace is compares to steel plates.

Likewise as far as "biological AFV", remember that the Pulse Rifle is suppose to be chewing right through them like tissue paper.

[Heckenshutze]

Some castes are harder than others, but standard xenomorphs like any other living being can be stabbed, slashed to death by a sharp blade or a pointy end object. Yet the pulse rifle in the LORE destroy xenos in our LORE (Yeah we have our own LORE) they're a bit more harder.

[MrJJJ]

So you shot the xeno tank
With the lightweight low caliber gun and its useless due to that?


I....dont think thats how it works

Preety much this

>Also all these people saying how M39 is useless

Well yeah of course its going to be useless if you just only face T2's of mature and elite caliber or any T3's, its not meant to really even fight them, at best you can dual wield them to fuck up T2's until ancient, its meant for murdering T1's quickly and effectively, along with not giving you a speed debuff unless you attached a forward grip because stupidity, but also not needing you to be super close to utilize it like with gyro buckshot.

[Skimmy2]

Preety much this

>Also all these people saying how M39 is useless

Well yeah of course its going to be useless if you just only face T2's of mature and elite caliber or any T3's, its not meant to really even fight them, at best you can dual wield them to fuck up T2's until ancient, its meant for murdering T1's quickly and effectively, along with not giving you a speed debuff unless you attached a forward grip because stupidity, but also not needing you to be super close to utilize it like with gyro buckshot.

Unless if they changed it?
Last I checked, a forward grip on a smg does not slow you down.

[MrJJJ]

Unless if they changed it?
Last I checked, a forward grip on a smg does not slow you down.

Wielding any gun in general slows you down preety sure.

[Renomaki]

Wielding any gun in general slows you down preety sure.

I never really tried that, but either way, putting a grip on an SMG is like replacing your combat boots with dress-shoes.

Besides its high RoF, the whole gimmick of SMGs is the agility and ease of use they provide. As I said before, not only do they allow you to move and shoot at full speed, but the fact that they can be whipped out in a hurry to ward off a threat is a valuable tool. Hell, I had many times where I lost an arm and was still able to fight with an SMG in hand (although reloading was often a problem...). The idea that someone would put a grip on an SMG alone is baffling, defeating the whole purpose of its design.

[Heckenshutze]

Dual m39 + ap + FOCUS order.

[Kiroking]

Every single gun has its upsides and downsides so say what you will, but this gun has saved the lives of me and my patients from raiding runners and hunters many times as a medic. Yeah its shitty against T3's for the aforementioned reasons but for a medic and sometimes an engineer that has bigger priorities then just fighting an M39 with the right mods is the perfect tool for keeping the enemy at bay.

[Feeltheburnandslams]

Easy solution to this, affix fucking bayonet and charge. or just don your knife and go at them.

[caleeb101]

the only reasons for this:

- You weren't standing close enough. People don't actually realise how awful the range of the M39 is. It misses nearly all shots at about 5-6 tiles away and since this was a crusher, I can only assume you didn't wanna be up close and personal. And if slugs taught us anything, range affects damage tremendously.

-M39 is designed for taking out smaller targets and is arguably better at doing that than the M41A. if i had to put a scale on it, an AP bullet from a M39 AP mag has about the same if not less power than a regular M41A bullet but is more likely to bypass an exoskeleton. not saying that this is 100% but from my experience, that's what it seems like. point is, it's like using a cardboard hammer to knock a nail into a brick wall. you had the wrong tools

- You were banging on that front plate like a child banging on a door trying to escape from a house fire.