M39 Submachine gun AKA useless peashooter

[Luna Eon Fray]

Tell me again why the M39 Submachine gun is even a thing, when a crusher can shrug off AP mags like it's nothing.
The damage is also so ridiculously low a runner with laugh at you and take your head for insulting it with that garbage of a weapon.

[Cairath]

You do realize that you are complaining about shooting an SMG, a ligthweight one-handed weapon, at the xeno with the heaviest armor. And judging by the fact that he's deflecting them, you were shooting at his front plate. SADAR AP rockets are the only thing that will consistently damage a Crusher on his front plate. The M39 is designed to fight against smaller targets. A runner will actually be torn down in a few bullets if you have it on burst and they're close.

[Luna Eon Fray]

I'd consider your point valid if it wasn't for the fact that I was using AP magazines on that crusher. What is AP mags even for if they cannot even pierce armor what so ever. Those bullets are designed for these kind of situation yet it failed every time.

[Cairath]

No, they're not. Even M4A1 MK2 AP bullets are deflected by the Crusher's front plate. AP bullets deal better damage to higher castes than regular bullets, all while also being a very viable option when fighting humans, but they become useless against the front end of a Crusher. That's what that caste is designed to do. If you want to defeat it, either get heavy weapons, flank it or attack it in melee (Machetes and bayonets do wonders against crushers)

[Luna Eon Fray]

I've defeated countless crushers with full front attack with a M4A1 MK2 loaded with AP bullets. And most of the bullets pierced the crushers thick hide. I don't see why the hell the M39 submachine gun wouldn't do the same loaded with Ap rounds too. The caliber of the two weapon are not that different.

[Cairath]

One's an assault rifle you hold with both hands, the other is a one handed SMG. And you can damage them, but most will get reflected off his frontal plate.

[Luna Eon Fray]

Wrong again! It was fitted with RDS a gyro and a suppressor the M41A MK2 that is. And the submachine gun was fitted with an rds and an extended barrel.

[Crab_Spider]

AP increases the RNG chance to penetrate the armor and do damage.

[Steven Sneider]

The attachments improve accuracy not bullet penetration. Its deflecting bullets not missing them.

[Cairath]

I was referring to the caliber point you were making, not the exact attachments of your weapons and whether the one you used was a one handed or two handed weapon. The fact of the matter is that the SMG is a light, low caliber side arm, not really something you should engage a walking tank with, no matter the bullet type.

[Luna Eon Fray]

AP increases the RNG chance to penetrate the armor and do damage.

The attachments improve accuracy not bullet penetration. Its deflecting bullets not missing them.

I got that point, It worked flawlessly as most of the bullets hit the crusher but the RNG part is broken as fuck for the smg. The probability for an AP bullet to actually penetrate on the smg has to be low as fuck for a crusher to be able to deflect that many bullets in a row.

[Trench007]

Every gun has it's purpose, why are you complaining that a light-weight SMG can't do everything? The gun is not useless, you are just using it for the wrong task. Again, you've already been told it is for light targets and not heavily armored ones (AP rounds for a gun that caliber is still nothing compared to a heavy-duty assault rifle). The SMG is basically firing the same rounds as the M4A3 pistol, only faster and with a larger magazine. The lesson here is, take the right gun for the right job.

[Luna Eon Fray]

Every gun has it's purpose, why are you complaining that a light-weight SMG can't do everything? The gun is not useless, you are just using it for the wrong task. Again, you've already been told it is for light targets and not heavily armored ones (AP rounds for a gun that caliber is still nothing compared to a heavy-duty assault rifle). The SMG is basically firing the same rounds as the M4A3 pistol, only faster and with a larger magazine. The lesson here is, take the right gun for the right job.

So you're telling me that 10x20mm is essentially the same as 9mm?

[Trench007]

So you're telling me that 10x20mm is essentially the same as 9mm?

Yes it is different in size, but it is basically modeled to have around the same damage as the M4A3 pistol (if slightly more).

[Trench007]

I got that point, It worked flawlessly as most of the bullets hit the crusher but the RNG part is broken as fuck for the smg. The probability for an AP bullet to actually penetrate on the smg has to be low as fuck for a crusher to be able to deflect that many bullets in a row.

If I were to hypothetically say that the Crusher's manlet is on average 5-inches thick and SMG AP rounds have an average penetration of 2-Inches, why would they suddenly be able to penetrate the armor? It should be 'low as fuck' and the RNG reflects that.

[Heckenshutze]

My man, if you want to kill a crusher shooting only it's front crest swap to shotgun slugs, smg's aren't even designed to the standard grunt. It's a support weapon for roles that at least need one hand free (engineer, medic) , burstfire plus AP it's a god-like runner/hunter killer but that's it, don't expect to kill anything else.

Logic, physics etc don't apply here don't even try to use it. It is intended by the devs to work like that.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

Fall back weapon really, it's not a frontline rifle, it's a submachine gun.

The pulse rifle is there as the frontliner, not the M39.

I use it as a backup weapon for the sniper as my main role is to harass aliens. And scare any away with the SMG.

[Casany]

I mean, the guns loaded with 9mm. Even with AP most 9mm ballets can't go through heavy armor

[Zilenan91]

Godlike hunter/runner killer? No it's not at all, this gun is fucking garbage.

I point blanked a Mature Hunter 9 times with AP rounds for this and he was still at around 30% health it's fucking worthless.

This is also ignoring the actual role this thing has, that being it having so much overlap with pistols that it makes them entirely obsolete; because the M39 is one-handed it makes sidearms completely pointless so it restricts game design in that sense because why would a spec or a lot of other jobs consider taking a pistol when they could just bring an M39 along? That's completely disgregarding the fact that this thing sucks dick. Like excuse my language but thing has no purpose, it is a worthless gun. Straying off topic a bit, I currently consider the M4A3 of all things better than the M39 at the moment because while it does slightly less damage you can get a sidearm pouch and store it in your pocket and have it available for use at any moment. It even has AP rounds available in the same way as the M39! And incendiary at the RO! If what is supposed to be a primary weapon is not competitive with sidearms then this thing is just broken.

I don't think this thing could be buffed without making it still having the gun overlap problem either, this thing makes handguns obsolete so why would anyone ever take them if this thing was ever made not useless? It needs a whole rework to be two-handed or something to make it not just this horrible trap that engineers and medics take that ends up killing them because it does zero damage.

Edit: As for the AP rounds, if the SMG AP rounds don't penetrate crusher armor then what the fuck are they for? Outside of crushers, no xeno has a truly absurd amount of armor that mostly nullifies basic bullets like the crusher does, so this combined with other upgraded T3 castes and the Queen is why they're useful. They even have a built-in tradeoff by doing less damage, but if you not only make the bullets do less damage but make them still able to bounce off the front of the xeno, then these have literally zero purpose because you sacrifice damage and get NOTHING in return. This thing is fundamentally on a basic level a failure.

[Heckenshutze]

Godlike hunter/runner killer? No it's not at all, this gun is fucking garbage.

I point blanked a Mature Hunter 9 times with AP rounds for this and he was still at around 30% health it's fucking worthless.

This is also ignoring the actual role this thing has, that being it having so much overlap with pistols that it makes them entirely obsolete; because the M39 is one-handed it makes sidearms completely pointless so it restricts game design in that sense because why would a spec or a lot of other jobs consider taking a pistol when they could just bring an M39 along? That's completely disgregarding the fact that this thing sucks dick. Like excuse my language but thing has no purpose, it is a worthless gun. Straying off topic a bit, I currently consider the M4A3 of all things better than the M39 at the moment because while it does slightly less damage you can get a sidearm pouch and store it in your pocket and have it available for use at any moment. It even has AP rounds available in the same way as the M39! And incendiary at the RO! If what is supposed to be a primary weapon is not competitive with sidearms then this thing is just broken.

I don't think this thing could be buffed without making it still having the gun overlap problem either, this thing makes handguns obsolete so why would anyone ever take them if this thing was ever made not useless? It needs a whole rework to be two-handed or something to make it not just this horrible trap that engineers and medics take that ends up killing them because it does zero damage.

Edit: As for the AP rounds, if the SMG AP rounds don't penetrate crusher armor then what the fuck are they for? Outside of crushers, no xeno has a truly absurd amount of armor that mostly nullifies basic bullets like the crusher does, so this combined with other upgraded T3 castes and the Queen is why they're useful. They even have a built-in tradeoff by doing less damage, but if you not only make the bullets do less damage but make them still able to bounce off the front of the xeno, then these have literally zero purpose because you sacrifice damage and get NOTHING in return. This thing is fundamentally on a basic level a failure.

Why you use it if you hate it that much, if you want to wreck xenos with a few shots use a shotgun, simple as that.

The SMG has it uses, if you lack the skills to find them doesn't mean it's useless, jesus.

[Zilenan91]

It does mean it's useless though, this thing doesn't have a role that other guns aren't better at. This thing is just a bad gun, it'd be fine if it was balanced to use a LOT of bullets to kill a xeno but it would need a very fast firerate to compensate, only this can't happen because you can't give this thing a blisteringly fast firerate when it can be held in one hand or else it would make it overpowered when people dual-wield it, so the design of this thing is hamstringing ways it could be made better or more fun. The core concept of it is flawed to the point that people consider what is supposed to be a primary weapon a sidearm and it needs a complete rework to actually be a good gun that's worth using.

It's a real problem that a primary can be compared on equal footing to a sidearm like the M39 is, because this thing is clearly supposed to be a primary weapon.

[coroneljones]

So you shot the xeno tank
With the lightweight low caliber gun and its useless due to that?


I....dont think thats how it works

[Zilenan91]

It's useless because this thing has no role, it's not good at killing lower durability xenos aka what I think is 13+ shots to kill a Mature Hunter, and even with ammo that's supposed to nullify armor it doesn't do anything to highly-armored xenos, and other things that could be called "sidearms" have more versatility in how they're used or stored to the point that this thing has no real purpose. As I've also said, the way this thing is designed to be one-handed makes it so it's hard to buff it without making it overpowered when dual-wielded or making sidearms like the M4A3/revolver even more irrelevant. The only reason specs take it is because a lot of them don't really have anything else that would go in their belt slot so it's like why not. They'd take the M4 if it fit on their belts.

I said earlier that I prefer the M4A3 over this thing because at least you can set xenos on fire with it and store it in your pocket while also having a gun that's actually good like the M4, so it's very easily stored and has utility that can actually do SOMETHING whereas the M39 is just poop.

[Swagile]

SMG's are definitely a noob trap.

If you see a medic / engineer carry a SMG, its because they are a pro that is desperate for storage space and only took it for its high volume of fire that allows it to scare newbie xenos away, or they are genuinely new and thought to pick it over the pulse rifle / shotgun because they needed the other hand.

The former happens 10% of the time, the later 90% of the time. So its a safe bet that if you see a medic / engineer with an SMG, assume bald and a waste of a slot.

[Zilenan91]

Actually SMG mags have the same size as pulse rifle mags right now so you can't even hold more of them