Synths and the use of weapons

[Renomaki]

This is something that often has me concerned.

Synths are normally non-combat support units, mostly designed to help around the ship (but sometimes they get deployed for other jobs). However, in certain situations, synths are allowed to engage in combat if hostile lifeforms attempt to hurt defenseless crewmembers.

Of course, safety protocols keep them from using guns, but for whatever reason, a loophole allows them to make use of knives and machetes.. And this worries me.

Whenever I play my synth, I always try to fight with my hands and hands alone, because I feel it would be inappropriate for a synth to pull out a knife on a xeno and shank it. Maybe a wrench or crowbar would be ok, but a object designed for KILLING would seem a bit... I dunno, powergamey? And that isn't even touching on how sometimes synths don armor or other protective gear.

I recently read a post about how a synth did just that, donning SWAT armor and using a machete to tango with some xenomorphs during a boarding attack, and the fact that they got away with that felt so.. Wrong, and out of place. It might give new applicants the wrong idea about what a synth is all about. They aren't ghetto-predators who happen to work for the humans, they are assistants who gear up to assist people, not to fight.

Does anyone else here agree that synths shouldn't be so quick to grab a blade or other weapon and jump into a fight when it presents itself? What can we do about this problem?

[Heckenshutze]

Well, that's a leak in the rule because how do you intend to defend another person if you can't neutralize the threat? .. we would need to add some 'self-defence' law kind of thing to synths. I mean, in Alien 2 Bishop is very good with the knife if he was locked in a room with I don't know.. a kid and a xeno he wouldn't hesitate to shank the xeno to death.

However, the full story is, the synth went full armor because he was ordered to and fought the xenos until his death so the command crew had some time to escape. I don't see the issue here. It would had been a different history if the synth would have gone full guetto xeno hunter at the start of the boarding

[James5734]

in Alien 2 Bishop is very good with the knife if he was locked in a room with I don't know.. a kid and a xeno he wouldn't hesitate to shank the xeno to death.

ALIEN 2

[Feweh]

Watch Aliens 2.

Bishop refuses a fire-arm despite knowing there are hostile aliens around, simply because no matter what he cant use it due to programming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAqTnouam7U @ 45 Seconds he hands the gun back to Ripley after examining it.

Bishop is capable of using tools that are not inherently purely for lethality, ie; Knives, Crowbars, Baseball bats, Machetes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0epw9P7-o


So why are Synths able to use weapons like knives, swords, spears but not a lethal gun?

Simple, programming stop them from using guns... nothing more and nothing less.
Which is the exactly same programming and mechanics they have in CM, no matter what you cannot fire a gun but are able to use other devices, tools and equipment.

[Renomaki]

Simple, programming stop them from using guns... nothing more and nothing less.
Which is the exactly same programming and mechanics they have in CM, no matter what you cannot fire a gun but are able to use other devices, tools and equipment.

My problem is the possibility that some players might find ways to abuse this exception to their advantage.

As they are now, synths are capable of taking a lot more punishment than a normal human, are immune to huggers, and can even repair themselves with mere wires and a blowtorch at will. Sure, they can't use guns, but as we all know, a good knife/machete in the right hands can lay down some serious hurt on xenos, what with it bypassing armor to deal pure damage.

What is to say we won't start having players attempting to join the whitelist not because they want to help around the ship, but more because they want to take advantage of the synth's abilities to robust xenos? What is stopping them from starting off each shift ensuring they have a bootknife in their boot, ready to take on the first hostile that meets criteria which allows them to start laying down the hurt?

If anyone is going to play as a synth, they need to know that it is not a combat unit in the SLIGHTEST. It is purely support. It is an engineer, a doctor, a cargo tech, and even an overwatch officer all rolled into one. They are not, however, ghetto predators. If someone is in danger, sure, go ahead, beat a xeno's head in with a wrench or a fire extinguisher, or maybe even try to rip its head off with your bare hands if you can. But if I see a synth reaching into its bags and pulling out a knife, I'm gonna be concerned.

[Feweh]

My problem is the possibility that some players might find ways to abuse this exception to their advantage.

As they are now, synths are capable of taking a lot more punishment than a normal human, are immune to huggers, and can even repair themselves with mere wires and a blowtorch at will. Sure, they can't use guns, but as we all know, a good knife/machete in the right hands can lay down some serious hurt on xenos, what with it bypassing armor to deal pure damage.

What is to say we won't start having players attempting to join the whitelist not because they want to help around the ship, but more because they want to take advantage of the synth's abilities to robust xenos? What is stopping them from starting off each shift ensuring they have a bootknife in their boot, ready to take on the first hostile that meets criteria which allows them to start laying down the hurt?

If anyone is going to play as a synth, they need to know that it is not a combat unit in the SLIGHTEST. It is purely support. It is an engineer, a doctor, a cargo tech, and even an overwatch officer all rolled into one. They are not, however, ghetto predators. If someone is in danger, sure, go ahead, beat a xeno's head in with a wrench or a fire extinguisher, or maybe even try to rip its head off with your bare hands if you can. But if I see a synth reaching into its bags and pulling out a knife, I'm gonna be concerned.

Whitelist Removal

[Renomaki]

Whitelist Removal

Well, I suppose that is the bluntest answer one can get.

[Heckenshutze]

It's exactly what I'm saying.. synths shouldn't be going around with knifes or machetes. BUT, if you get into a situation that involves a human in danger and there's one of these objects laying around there isn't a reason why you couldn't use them. About the ALIENS 2 movie, yes, Bishop can't use FIRE arms but he's god-like skilled with a knife. I bet if they gave him a knife instead of the gun he would have taken it.

[Tidomann]

It comes down to synth playstyle. It's varied player to player, round to round, and if becomes abused leads to whitelist removal.

Alan has used a machete in the past. To fight evil APC panels that were broken.

[NescauComToddy]

Players who have been whitelisted know very well about the role constraints and if they do not, they will eventually be removed. We have an application system to fairly evaluate each application and player in order to make sure that the member of the community that is being whitelisted is able to exercise the function of the whitelist without any breach of rules. If there is abuse in any way, the player who committed the infraction will simply be removed from the whitelist after an investigation.

► Show Spoiler

Unnecessary observation: Synthetics are not capable of healing themselves.

[Tidomann]

► Show Spoiler

Unnecessary observation: Synthetics are not capable of healing themselves.

I was going to mention this, by my protocols dictate I do not violate synthetic secret laws.

[Steelpoint]

Synthetics, at least the Synths we have for the Almayer, not being able to use firearms I think helps sell Synths to Aliens as something to not instantly murder.

I oft see unique 'RP' situations involving Synths and Aliens occur naturally, and I think one strong reason these can occur is because the Aliens do not have to fear the Synth pulling out a Shotgun and going to town. So the Aliens can more safely engagne in some roleplay with the Synth without fear of dying or disadvantaging the team.

If Synths could freely use firearms, outside of events or non-USMC standard Synths, then I think the Synth role will suffer in regards to possible Xeno on Synth interactions.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Synthetics, at least the Synths we have for the Almayer, not being able to use firearms I think helps sell Synths to Aliens as something to not instantly murder.

I oft see unique 'RP' situations involving Synths and Aliens occur naturally, and I think one strong reason these can occur is because the Aliens do not have to fear the Synth pulling out a Shotgun and going to town. So the Aliens can more safely engagne in some roleplay with the Synth without fear of dying or disadvantaging the team.

If Synths could freely use firearms, outside of events or non-USMC standard Synths, then I think the Synth role will suffer in regards to possible Xeno on Synth interactions.

I agree completely. Most times I've witnessed xeno interaction with a synth, it usually spouts very interesting cases of events spiralling into either the synth getting killed or the xeno getting the snot kicked out of it in funny, unique or interesting and engaging ways. If synths were permitted firearms and would be more aggressive, this would ruin that.

The biggest thing that sells viable synth/xeno interaction is the fact they are really passive if the xeno isn't killing them and there's no humans in danger nearby. In some cases they can be downright friendly or even cooperative with xenos in some circumstances. And its so refreshing.

At one point I had captured Alan and was observing his behaviour in a hive full of infected humans. It ended with him partly helping me keep the humans in their nests and unintentionally killing them which then led to him whipping out a dead marine's knife and hacking at me until I released him with the last surviving human (who would burst shortly after).

[Wubs4Scrubs]

I as well find it a little odd to think of synths going around with bladed weapons like robo-samurai slicing up boarding xenos, but like others have said it's down to personal playstyle. If you think about it there's no logical reason why the synths shouldn't be able to pick up a knife and defend itself. We even have some cannon evidence that synths know the way of the blade pretty damn well.

I think it would be a bad decision to take away the synths ability to use knives or other non-firearms both because it wouldn't really make sense lore wise but also because it would limit their ability to protect marines. The situation where a synth is needed to wield a knife may be rare, but if we look at Walter in Alien: Covenant he uses physical force to protect his mates numerous times throughout the movie.

Gameplay wise I just don't see synths over focusing on fighting with machetes over support purely because of how strict the whitelist is. Thus far the vast majority of accepted apps were turned in by server staff who should be well aquainted with the rules and ways of the synth. And the baldies aren't going to apply for synth status because it isn't a combat focused role. I'm fairly sure it's common for people to make forum accounts where the first (or at least one of the first) post is their predator app. Since most of the newer players simply want to get their hands on the biggest gun or the sharpest blade they'll stick to having their specialist set to high every round and getting their pred apps denied before applying for synth since it's a comparably much more low-key role.