Pillboxes: Could they work?

[Renomaki]

Lately, I been experimenting with some new building designs when I go engineer and happen to get FoB duty (or am free to join the FoB team to assist). For so long, all we really built were either full rows of barricades (sometimes stretching to considerable lengths), or a more scattered version of it to conserve on metals but cover more area (which often just results in marines complaining because they have to zig-zag around the defense). I grow tired of it, seeing it as cumbersome, time consuming and even expensive (depending on how many barricades we need).

So, I have been working on some new designs for marine defense. While my experiments are not complete, I do believe they have great potential in creating more focused, flexible defenses. You might have seen them already, in fact.

PILLBOXES.

What is a PIllbox? Well, this could sum it up for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillbox_(military)

For those that don't like wikipedia (and for good reasons I can understand), a Pillbox is a small, defensive structure that gunners used to, well, DEFEND certain positions without exposing themselves to enemy fire. They were quite tough to crack, requiring explosives to either crush or clear them out. Inspired by this, I have begun dabbling in creating my own designs to shake things up a bit and change how we build marine defenses.

Right now, I am still trying to perfect the design, keeping certain issues in mind and trying to fix them as I go along, but even before then, I had some wonderful results, making both beautiful (in my eyes) structures that also do a decent job at holding back the hordes, all the while not taking up a great deal of space or resources. I don't have any schematics to share as of yet, but I been developing a 5x5 (or was it 6x6?) 360 pillbox that shows a good deal of potential, and it isn't too costly to make either. Of course, it requires at least a marine or two that are dedicated to hold the position to really make work, which is the only issue with the design. Even a sentry won't be enough, since it too will need to be constantly adjusted on the fly to keep up with coming events (since we can't trust the 360 setting to do the job properly).

The reason I make this topic, however, is mainly to discuss marine defenses and if the creation of Pillboxes might improve marine defenses, or just might be the idea of a sad little dreamer who doesn't understand the true potential of making mile-long walls of barricades over more focused, reinforced defenses.

[Stripetail]

I've tried creating them in the past. the main problem you will run into is lack of materials. A few rounds ago I saw a decent pill box design on 624, I would enjoy seeing more defenses that weren't just straight lines across swathes of land.

[Jeser]

I don't like pillboxes for one reason: boilers. Marines have more chances escaping gas if defenses made in form of lines of barricades with 3-4 tiles between lines. Many pillboxes I saw were abandoned quite fast when there was at least one boiler doing it's damn job correctly.

[Karmac]

Good to see no one ever pays attention to engineers and what they do, reno people were making pillboxes back before I retired and went inactive like months ago, they work, but as with literally every fortification in the game they are going to be countered by boilers, which is a problem you solve manually by killing said boiler or walking away from the gas.

[Karmac]

Usually your better off just building an FOB though because of the fact xenos will go out of their way to demolish it and they usually aren't as sturdy or well-manned as an FOB.

[Steelpoint]

Issue with Pillboxes is that it is harder to escape Boiler gas clouds, and the recent Boiler buff that makes the gas spread in all directions where nothing can impede it means a enclosed defence can be dangerous and trap people in the acid clouds.

Its hard to justify creative defence designs when a Boiler can oft force you to go with the bog standard line upon line defence as they offers the best movement to avoid boiler attacks.

[Jeser]

Issue with Pillboxes is that it is harder to escape Boiler gas clouds, and the recent Boiler buff that makes the gas spread in all directions where nothing can impede it means a enclosed defence can be dangerous and trap people in the acid clouds.

Its hard to justify creative defence designs when a Boiler can oft force you to go with the bog standard line upon line defence as they offers the best movement to avoid boiler attacks.

That's what I basically was trying to say. If there is at least one decent boiler, pillbox will only trap marines to be easy target for gas. Also, they will be manned only if they are part of a FoB fortifications or they are made in strategic points like Hydro. And even then not necessarily it will be manned when xenos come to melt them.

[Sigmasquad]

The only pillbox that should exist is if you have extra metal to protect comrade sentry. The recent boiler buff that makes gas spread through literally everything (which is just pants-on-head stupid imo) makes putting marines in them a bad idea.

[Renomaki]

The only pillbox that should exist is if you have extra metal to protect comrade sentry. The recent boiler buff that makes gas spread through literally everything (which is just pants-on-head stupid imo) makes putting marines in them a bad idea.

This is something I get a lot of: Boiler gas this, boiler gas that... And you know what? I knew people would ask that. And in designing my pillbox, I had taken this into consideration by my second attempt.

What I do when building a pillbox is set up a few metal barricades 1 or 2 tiles away from the pillbox in the direction I expect gas attacks to take place. Lately they have been pretty consistent in blocking them, and they even provide a little extra cover outside the pillbox as well. I'm learning and upgrading as I go.

Good to see no one ever pays attention to engineers and what they do, reno people were making pillboxes back before I retired and went inactive like months ago, they work, but as with literally every fortification in the game they are going to be countered by boilers, which is a problem you solve manually by killing said boiler or walking away from the gas.

I dunno man, in all my time playing (which was both before you retired and after, and back before we have the sandbags and barricades of today) I have never seen a proper pillbox design. Maybe there was that one time when a person made a 3x3 pillbox, but this was back during the mid-section, when reinforced tables and plasteel barricades were on the way out and they were working on adding in the new metal barricades and plasteel gates.

Back then, pillboxes probably weren't all that viable due to the weak materials, but now that we have much stronger building materials (with sandbags being the BEST choice) and the ability to make cover barbed and thus unpounceable, the idea of a small fortified position that can cover vital pathways is all the more viable. You really should give it a shot sometime, it is great!

[Kesserline]

Pillbox can only work on WO, because no boilers.

Boilers is the key for aliens for cracking a hard entrenched location. If you can't deal with them, your fortifications will be lost anyway, but pillboxes will cause more casualties.

[Telegnats]

The pillbox design I came up with during the reinforced table era was decently effective at providing defense, while giving enough mobility to avoid the boiler gas clouds. Now though i'd argue that pillboxes are worse when supplies are limited. If you're going to throw metal at something, you're either going to throw all your metal at that one thing or it's going to be nigh worthless for anything more than keeping the random runner away.

[Rataca100]

Do you mean building a barricade wall in a square?

Also, OOCly, it would work until like they mentioned a boiler comes along, flames where used to clear out Pillboxes as much as explosives, gas and artillery/tanks were. I think a Crusher would do the job as well. Edit: then again, i have heard of them making gas resistant bunkers, so if a boilers acid acts more like a gas rather than a flame thrower, you should be good. :P

Just leave a escape route thats easy to use. When i sued to play engie, i leave the drop ship path basically open for people to run easily.

[HR171]

I mean its a cool idea but from an RP point of view it makes no sense, on a deployment wich is just to find out whats wrong with the colony so making a pillbox normally used for long term defense makes no sense UNLESS perhaps when the marines have found out what sort of enemy they are fighting and start to lose it might then make sense to build something like a pillbox

[Renomaki]

Do you mean building a barricade wall in a square?

Close, close, but that isn't quite how I designed my pillbox. I finally got off my ass to create a basic blueprint of a design, but alas, I can't seem to upload the damn thing. I might have to find another way to share it...

But in general, I have designed it as a 5 by 5 structure, with metal walls at each corner and sandbags (or barricades) lined up along each side of the structure, creating a secure 360 defensive position that not only saves a little on metal (with metal walls being only 10 metal, compared to the 12 metal you'd need to make two barbed barricades), but also makes cornershooting past the cover provided impossible. The structure would be designed to hold up to 3 men and an MG/sentry, and there would be at least 2 Plasteel gates at either end of the pillbox for easy entry and escape (preferably north/south or east/west).

On its own, it could hold up against most xenos with ease, but if boilers are an issue, then you line up a few barricades at least 2 tiles away in the direction of a possible gas attack to soak up a few blobs, repairing them when safe to do so. Crushers are a recent thing I been dealing on proofing against as well, but that still needs some experimentation to figure out the best way to go about it.

They aren't perfect, but that is the fun of it: Experimenting and improving the design as I go along, and even then it isn't set in stone. Location can change the design of it considerably in order to fit in, such as that one time I made a pillbox near LZ1 that doubled as a pretty hefty gate.

I mean its a cool idea but from an RP point of view it makes no sense, on a deployment wich is just to find out whats wrong with the colony so making a pillbox normally used for long term defense makes no sense UNLESS perhaps when the marines have found out what sort of enemy they are fighting and start to lose it might then make sense to build something like a pillbox

Good point, but then again... Why do we build such massive fortresses and sprawling defenses for a simple recon mission? Why do we fight such a suicidal fight against an enemy we cannot win when realistically it wouldn't make sense? Why are marines so flippin mental over weapon mods?

Sometimes you just gotta accept that not everything is gonna make sense... So you make the best of it and try to have fun while still RPing to the best of your ability.

[Karmac]

Reno make it a png, jpeg or whatever and upload it to imgur, then link it from there

[Wubs4Scrubs]

No, pillboxes suggest a permanent line of defense, not something temporary like an FOB

[Rataca100]

No, pillboxes suggest a permanent line of defense, not something temporary like an FOB

FoB's can be both. Temporary or long term. :P

[HR171]

Good point, but then again... Why do we build such massive fortresses and sprawling defenses for a simple recon mission? Why do we fight such a suicidal fight against an enemy we cannot win when realistically it wouldn't make sense? Why are marines so flippin mental over weapon mods?

Sometimes you just gotta accept that not everything is gonna make sense... So you make the best of it and try to have fun while still RPing to the best of your ability.

True, i do wonder why we always build an FOB so i do like it when the CO tries something different and doesn't immediately build one...however these are normally slaughters anyways.
Buy whatever pillboxes like you describe would be way cooler than the sort of FOBs and defences we have at the moment.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

FoB's can be both. Temporary or long term. :P

From what I understand CM devs tend to focus on adding things to FOBs which fit a more short term theme. FOBs IRL that have more permanent fortifications are generally for long term operations or military campaigns which go on for an extended period of time. CM rounds only last a couple hours usually and it's more of a skirmish or a single battle rather than a massive military operation.

So yes, FoBs can be both, but for the gameplay in CM they are more temporary.

[Telegnats]

FOBs being temporary would make far more sense if there wasn't a role specifically designed for the creation and maintenance of FOBs in equal numbers to medics. Why would you dedicate two people to build something that's only supposed to keep out stray dogs and cats? And if they're supposed to be temporary, why is it so god damn tedious to pack up and move? And if they're supposed to be more permanent, why do we have to go to such great lengths to make a design that can stand up to two of the most common T3s for more than 15 minutes?

Though to the pillbox, I've had decent luck with a 5x5 walls-for-corners pillbox design. It's major flaw is that once single crusher remembers that he can take the walls down with a charge or two, the pillbox is broken into exceedingly easily, and repairs and replacements for walls are incredibly time consuming and difficult to set up when you're under attack. Still, it's better than most of the alternatives.

[apophis775]

Why would a colony have pillboxes?

[Rataca100]

Why would a colony have pillboxes?

Bunkers make sense, but perhaps not for fighting.

[Steelpoint]

Some form of bunkers on the outskirts of colonies would make sense in lore.

One major issues some colonies have are dealing with local xenomorphs. Not Aliens but actual native animals to planets that can be very hostile to Humans. You'd expect some kind of defensive positions on planets that can support life and have a hostile wildlife.

[KinNnN]

Maybe add MG nest inside if a bunker would be better would have more firepower and shit it would be equal since boiler buff make the gas spread fastly but the MG Nest would make it fair

[Rataca100]

Some form of bunkers on the outskirts of colonies would make sense in lore.

One major issues some colonies have are dealing with local xenomorphs. Not Aliens but actual native animals to planets that can be very hostile to Humans. You'd expect some kind of defensive positions on planets that can support life and have a hostile wildlife.

SO some actual defensive bunkers on the skirts of it and some scattered around on the inside to provide easy accommodation should they need to shelter from something.

I was more thinking any form of galactic scale natural disaster that could happen. :P