The necessity of FOB squads: discussion

[Monoo]

Saw some others discussing this in different threads.

How do you feel about a squad being dedicated to FOB duty? What about the notion that the main FOB constantly needs defenders?

Some of the talk is that too many combat-able marines are wasted holding the FOB, causing offensives to fail and leading to the FOB inevitably falling as well.

The alternative would be making an FOB where you land (using small amounts of metal) and saving the rest for making forward bases wherever the heaviest fighting occurs. The main FOB wouldn't be occupied by more than a few people unless the acting ground command gave the order to fall back.

Discuss!

[JennerH]

it's definitely a necessary role, but it's not for everyone. I think command should ask first if anyone wants to volunteer for FOB duty before choosing so an SL who wouldn't do good there could go out and attack

[TehSpoderman]

Unless you want your DS attacked, then yeah, its kinda necessary

[taketheshot56]

Personally I fucking ADORE FOB duty, I ask for it every time. Because numero uno I can safely retrieve snacks and drinks from my kitchen from the safety of the FOB & its very important to have good construction at your FOB. Because, command can be shit, SLs can be shit. But if the FOB is shit.....its all over.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

Making a very fortified forward base without any supply route back to the LZ would only result in an encirclement, and an inevitable marine loss. I think that it's absolutely nessecary to fortify the LZ and station enough marines there throughout the round to ensure that a pack of hunters can't overwhelm the LZ defenses. From personal experience, when I see people try and make forward bases and skip building up the nexus and LZ just leads to a hydro FOB which is systematically surrounded and brought down.

I think that having a squad in reserve to watch the FOB is definitely important, however if reinforcements are needed as an SL I would have a smaller fireteam assigned to hang back at the FOB to make sure it had at least some defenders. Even a few marines with defenses can hold off a sizable alien assault assuming the engineers were at least somewhat competent and there is a sentry present.

[Stripetail]

Speaking as a long time Bravo squad member who loves building fobs. I absolutely love it.

The biggest problem I feel impacts the round is more on the side of marine incompetence rather than lack of manpower. All of the manpower in the world means nothing if the people you're throwing at the job don't know what they're doing.

Dedicating a squad to the FOB is sometimes extremely needed and sometimes a waste of manpower, a common practice in Bravo by good SL's is to have the spec, smartgunner, and a couple of pfc's move to the front. (Fun fact, this is usually Fire Team 2.) This isn't always applicable. Especially in low pop.

My honest feelings on FOB Squads is that they should be given extra metal before briefing ends, this will allow them to free up marines faster as the FOB will be more properly fortified and in a faster amount of time.

On high pop there is no need to keep an entire squad on the FOB, at the very least send the Spec, Smartgunner, and a decently sized group of pfc's to the frontline. If you can spare a medic send one with them as well.

On low pop fobbits are needed more than highpop as you don't have the abundance of marines and most FOB's tend to be large. Though this could likely be countered by having smaller fobs on low pop, but that also means more space for a xeno team to surround the FOB in.

I can go on and on about this, but it's something I'd rather discuss in voice on a day I'm not tired as shit.

[Monoo]

Good responses, all pretty in line with how I feel. I've yet to see a good argument for the forward bases approach.

however if reinforcements are needed as an SL I would have a smaller fireteam assigned to hang back at the FOB to make sure it had at least some defenders. Even a few marines with defenses can hold off a sizable alien assault assuming the engineers were at least somewhat competent and there is a sentry present.

This is how I run things. As a commander I usually am against more than one forward base, and leave most of the engineers at the FOB. However I try to keep as many marines in the field as I can without compromising the defenses.

A good way to do this is by rotating the squads on FOB duty. Those that hate it get their chance at action and the beaten squads can restock and rest up.

[Stripetail]

I don't know if it will ever become the meta. But if you got a spare Autoturret at the round start, instead of putting it at the FOB, keep it for the push to the front, set up a 5x5 outpost for medics to heal marines in and they'll be protected from most xeno attacks, freeing up more people for pushes.

[Skimmy2]

Dont ask why a squad is kept back at the FOB, instead ask what all the other squads are doing.

If they arent blobed together by incompetence, you have a squad acting in the Left, Center, and Right flanks of an assault. If neither of those 3 squads can find a exploit in the xeno's lines, a 4th wont necessarily solve it.
Its likewise extremely easy for xenos to move unimpeded behind enemy lines. Committing the entire platoon to an assault is just that, committing. Add on high casualty rates and routing and you are just begging for a platoon's worth of funerals.

[Karmac]

The FOB is your Reserve squad, if things are going well they can sit back and protect your LZ from flanking xenos, if things are going bad you can send them in to pull put any surviving squads stuck in firefights. They also ensure lone xenos don't annihilate your FOB when you aren't looking. All in all it sucks to be them but it's a very vital role and as a frequent engie player I gotta say it really helps to have the manpower there if xenos ever do decide to test your might. As a CO it's good to know I have that squad in place as a sort of contingency plan.

[Karmac]

I don't know if it will ever become the meta. But if you got a spare Autoturret at the round start, instead of putting it at the FOB, keep it for the push to the front, set up a 5x5 outpost for medics to heal marines in and they'll be protected from most xeno attacks, freeing up more people for pushes.

Because of how valuable turrers are and how awkward they are to move for unskilled players you'll find most sentries that try this get forgotten or allowed to die because nobody wants to bother covering them/moving them to safety. But this isn't a new meta at all, it's pretty frequent you get engies taking their sentries to the frontlines or keeping them for a defense line closer to the xeno hive than your current FOB is. It's definitely a good idea to take at least one sentry for this purpose but if your taking anymore than that it gets kinda "if we have to fallback we don't have automated turrets to make up for the men we just lost because we lost the turrets there as well".

[Kesserline]

I tend to underestimate the power and the value of a FOB and its marines.

But, when an offensive has deeply failed, and the FOB is the only rempart before losing, and the FOB holds good and break the aliens comeback. Then, you see the true value of a good FOB and a good garrison.

Yet, that doesn't strip any value from small fortifications made directly on the frontline.

But good FOB with good marines in there can prevent a Xeno major from happening, yet, delaying automatically the round because both sides (USCM lost their offensive and Xenos too) are basically broken.

Personally, I dislike being on FOB duty, but having a good FOB is always a good thing.

[Szunti]

Look at RTS games. Players never leave an army at home. They know if you split your army it's not merely twice as weak. (It can be surprising, but if all units can shoot, an army can destroy the two half of the same strength army with minimal losses.)

What's even worse are engineers in a quiet FOB. You need the barricades, marines and firepower where the enemies are. Even a couple barricades makes your attack much stronger.

It's command's job to move the marines to the right spot, have enough information on xenos' location and put enough pressure on them so they can't think about flanking.
But it's easier to keep a squad at FOB and never talk to them again. Marines don't help either, because without dedicated FOB guards, you need to report every xeno movement, but marines rarely report anything. It's also expected that marines follow orders and act quickly, in reality squads need minutes just to form up.

If xenos reach the FOB usually it will fall anyway, it's not a magical thing that make marines win. Rotation is just a myth. Haven't ever seen a squad that came back from the front unless the battle is lost. Maybe a couple marines who take their role seriously. A good way to turn them into disobeyers too.

[Skimmy2]

Look at RTS games. Players never leave an army at home. They know if you split your army it's not merely twice as weak. (It can be surprising, but if all units can shoot, an army can destroy the two half of the same strength army with minimal losses.)

What's even worse are engineers in a quiet FOB. You need the barricades, marines and firepower where the enemies are. Even a couple barricades makes your attack much stronger.

It's command's job to move the marines to the right spot, have enough information on xenos' location and put enough pressure on them so they can't think about flanking.
But it's easier to keep a squad at FOB and never talk to them again. Marines don't help either, because without dedicated FOB guards, you need to report every xeno movement, but marines rarely report anything. It's also expected that marines follow orders and act quickly, in reality squads need minutes just to form up.

If xenos reach the FOB usually it will fall anyway, it's not a magical thing that make marines win. Rotation is just a myth. Haven't ever seen a squad that came back from the front unless the battle is lost. Maybe a couple marines who take their role seriously. A good way to turn them into disobeyers too.

Traditional RTSs (Star Craft, Command and Conquer, Halo Wars) are practically designed to blob rush everything. You cant do the same in CM or literally any game with friendly fire and non-perfect reaction time amongst your units.
If this was an RTS then the CO could just meta knowledge how many marines it takes to kill a xeno and send that many, as opposed to what we have now, which is have 20 marines die to a crusher and rav.

[Kesserline]

Also, other RTS games such as Wargame or Steel Division : Normandy 1944 (which are quitly accurate and realistic), encourage you to have reserve forces.

Because, on those RTS games, you have to take into account range, ammo, morale, armor penetration value, missing rate, accuracy, and so on.

So, having an entire squad on FOB is maybe overkill, especially where the frontline is far away, but having at least a fireteam in there is a good option.

[Steelpoint]

Generally my line of thought is to keep one squad in reserve at the FoB, and to encourage the Engineers of all squads to work on either the FoB or on forward defences near the frontlines.

As CO I do try and rotate the FoB duty squad if needed but it is very hard to do so, good luck asking people on the frontline to retreat to do FoB duty, it never happens since you'll just get the SL (at best) and one or two marines who retreat and the rest stay on the front either way.

I think the best use of the reserve FoB squad is to have them push up to replace a squad that has taken a lot of beatings. The key to good combat I think is to have the three forward Squads pushing separate areas and not clumping up in one area if possible.

[conthegodoffire]

I would say that FOB duty is really important, having a safe place to move wounded, keep supplies, and our lifeline back to the Almayer.
Without a squad there to protect our stuff and our people, the xenos would woop our asses.

All it would take is a few hunters behind the FOB to cut us off from the DS, and after that happens, we have nowhere to move wounded or get more marines planet side and to the fight.
Bad times with no FOB or squad protecting it.

[Heckenshutze]

You can't have a successful OP without a good FOB (a 'good' fob isn't a pair of barricades there and there) .. really good FOB's can turn the tide of the round.

But as a permanent Standard Marine player, FOB duty is dull to me.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

I love how literally everybody has been in agreement

Yet people treat FOB duty like it'll give them the plague

[Symbiosis]

I disagree fully. A FOB should be occupied solely by wounded and at most Engineers and maybe a Sentry.

You're splitting your forces - not a strategically sound idea for Marines. The FOB, if anything, should be a triage and resupply area. A planetside Doctor would be an ideal situation, but if unavailable, AFAK's and Tricord.

What if the FOB is attacked? - if the enemy withdrawals from you, somehow flanks around you and is pounding the FOB? Then pincer them. Your FOB will hold if a sentry and 2-3 Marines are there. You don't need 20 marines to defend against on or two xenos.

Countless Marines victories have been delivered to the Xenos by Marines leaving squads in reserve.

[Renomaki]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but like others have said, having a squad stationed at the FoB can be quite useful. I myself normally enjoy FoB duty due to the more relaxed nature of it (provided I am able to find something to do, such as setting up light defenses).

Of course, you don't nee a lot of marines to GUARD an FoB, so when I go commander and there is a lot of action at the front lines, I tend to request my NCO at the FoB to send a fireteam up to the front to assist. After all, if the FoB team happens to have a GL or RPG in their team, it would be an awful waste to have them sitting around at the FoB, so might as well send the heavy weapons to the front while the grunts watch the base.

Of course, this brings me to another issue: Building oversized FoBs.

More often than not, I notice that FoBs tend to be made way larger than can be supported, where a single squad sometimes isn't even ENOUGH to cover all of it. Why do we build big fortresses that cannot be fully manned when we can just build a series of pillboxes, checkpoints or other smaller firing positions in tactical locations? I myself designed a 5x5 pillbox that can take up to 4 marines and a sentry/MG can hold off against xenos just as well as your average, 500+ metal FoB. A concentrated defense in a small area can sometimes do more than a great wall of barricades that often just gets melted when marines aren't looking.

Maybe it is just me, but I think we need to build smarter, not bigger.

[Challenger]

I agree with Symbiosis here. Waste of resources with a large opportunity cost. Once a barbed wire perimeter has been established, you only need enough firepower in the FOB to prevent and hold against a small breach. Breaking down a barbed metal cade is loud, harmful, reversible, takes a longass time, and usually puts you out of position given how far away the FOB is from any enemy fortifications. Even if a hostile survives and follows through with opening a breach, FOB layout and multiple lines of defence usually make it difficult to press an advantage. Hence you only need up to 2-3 marines (flamer recommended) to hold the FOB, which engineers + medics + walking wounded can easily supply. When I see a CO order two squads to hold one FOB, or make multiple FOBs with 3-4 squads etc I just want to neck myself irl especially when it's just blatantly done roundstart completely disregarding the point of the mision being to investigate a distress, not create an ultra-bunker.

Add to that, that I NEVER see the FOB actually "flanked" or "surprise attacked" etc by anything more than the occasional hunter anyway, keep in mind that alien players are usually just as bad as marine players and have no ability to work together either, and regardless as Symbiosis stated the FOB will hold long enough against up to half the hive for the rest of the squads to arrive, and usually punish them severely, catching them out of position without fortifications or weeds.

With that said, it's not necessarily the best idea to send all squads to the front lines, as there really are diminishing returns for throwing more marines into a ball, killing their firelanes, maneuverability, and teamwork. Usually I assign a squad to create a FOB, then have them advance with their engineers to continue extruding barbed lines forward while shuttling supplies and wounded back and forth, and they'll be close enough to the front lines that you can press them forward to meatgrind if necessary.

[jalen earl]

Ive only seen it a handful of times but there is nothing worse than trying to retreat with aliens on your ass only to realise that nexus has been made into a hive and your last line of defense has been taken out.


More for having a squad or 2 assigned to construction then once established leaving 3-4 behind as a garrison in charge of loading wounded, unloading supplies etc.

[Youbar]

The FOB needs to be guarded at all times, even if it's just a skeleton force there. To quote, "amateurs discuss tactics, whereas professionals study logistics." It's a critical part of marine supply lines, and it needs to be secure enough to allow wounded soldiers to be ferried back to the Almayer. There's really no excuse for a commander to skimp out on garrisoning it, especially since it plays a critical role in combat rotations, wherein he can just place the most damaged squad on guard duty, allowing them to recover while still serving an important role.

it's definitely a necessary role, but it's not for everyone. I think command should ask first if anyone wants to volunteer for FOB duty before choosing so an SL who wouldn't do good there could go out and attack

That's not how it works, unfortunately. Assigning a single squad to FOB duty ensures they stay together, and that you can communicate with all of them without going through several channels. Volunteers would just muck up the process, since they could be from several different squads, and are virtually untrackable, since you don't have a squad leader to call on to verify their position. Additionally, if they come into contact with the enemy, their report has to go over the general radio, which is much less likely to be acknowledged by other marines present in the FOB.

[Robotic Potato]

Personally I believe it's very important to have a good 4-5 combat able people at the FOB at a time, I've learned this the hard way.

As an XO and aCO I once leaded a round, I had every squad aside from Bravo fighting at the front. Of course they got bored after awhile so I kindly let told them to go head to the front and leave only their engineers behind. The engineers were very well supplied all OP of course, finally when the Marines started losing ground I got cries the Nexus was lost.

A single hunter broken in, killed both engineers then signaled for the entire hive to flank the marines effectively trapping them in Hydro. A few were able to escape to DS-1, but the fact remains all it takes is a single hunter or spitter to ruin an FOB that's under defended.