The Mortar: Available as an engi kit?

[Chowder McArthor]

Here's the idea;
A single mortar kit is available to all squads, similar to how one type of spec kit is available to all squad specialists. One squad can buy it, then the rest have to choose the 56d or the sentry.
It would contain;
-The mortar itself
-Two high-explosive rounds
-Two flare rounds
-Two smoke rounds
-One Incendiary Round
-A command radio key (So the mortar operator can listen into command and hear other squad SLs give coords)
-A pair of normal Binoculars
-A Map
This should allow for a mostly complete kit for the engi to start with, only having one for all four squads should make it more balanced, and having a few shells to start with would allow them to be somewhat useful, but not just able to blindly bomb an expected hive location really early, as well as using the utility shells to assist marines. I'm curious about opposition to this kit, why, and if you like the kit but dislike the loadout I suggested, how it can be improved.

[Surrealistik]

I'm down.

I think at a total cost of 160 for a handful of shots that actually kill, the mortar isn't especially viable as is for what you get; would strongly consider making those binos tac though.

[Arbs]

Throw this in as a suggestion in gitlab.

[Chowder McArthor]

Throw this in as a suggestion in gitlab.

Wanted to see if the community liked it first and if I should modify anything before doing that.

[Robotic Potato]

I personally think it's not a bad idea.

At Req a sentry cost 120 points, a mortar costs the same though ammo-less. The ammo this comes with is much less then the mortar crate so I wouldn't exactly classify it as 160 points more 130ish and with ammo already costing a bit it's not like it'll be too heavily relied on if anything it could lower the marine's defensive capability to a degree.

That does bring the worry someone terrible gets a hold of it an especially lowers the marine's capability but not much you can do to stop that someone could do the same with spec, eh. Should probably bring it to the gitlab that way you might get more attention from the people who would actually code this.

[Anoonki]

After seeing the mortar in action a bunch while spectating, this'd probably be a little excessive.

Alternatively, something a little bit more sane (IMO), would be to just include some ammo in that 120 point investment. Maybe a little less than the actual dedicated ammo crate, but it'd give you something usable for 120, instead of requiring a 160 point buy-in outright.

[Renomaki]

It might sound like a nice idea, until you end up with 3 mortars and only one sentry.

I'd rather keep it as is, with the option to buy a single mortar for the mission should the CO choose to allow it. One mortar is more than enough to provide support to marines, we don't need any more than that.

Sides, the ammo is pretty costly, how would cargo be able to supply all the mortars without utterly breaking the bank and screwing over all the marines in the process?

[Chowder McArthor]

It might sound like a nice idea, until you end up with 3 mortars and only one sentry.

I'd rather keep it as is, with the option to buy a single mortar for the mission should the CO choose to allow it. One mortar is more than enough to provide support to marines, we don't need any more than that.

Sides, the ammo is pretty costly, how would cargo be able to supply all the mortars without utterly breaking the bank and screwing over all the marines in the process?

I specifically said; make it like the spec crates, where only one squad can buy a mortar, like spec kits, then no one else can buy a mortar. It's then just a rush to get to the vendor to see which squad grabs it first, like the rush for the good spec kits.

[Surrealistik]

After seeing the mortar in action a bunch while spectating, this'd probably be a little excessive.

Alternatively, something a little bit more sane (IMO), would be to just include some ammo in that 120 point investment. Maybe a little less than the actual dedicated ammo crate, but it'd give you something usable for 120, instead of requiring a 160 point buy-in outright.

Honestly, thus far I've see the mortar do more harm than good.

I think it can get lucky like the OB/CAS once beanos learn how to counterplay but that's about it.

I'm open to the possibility of the mortar being truly powerful, but that'll probably be exclusive to well-situated closeish range blindfire.

[Steelpoint]

If you wanted to make the Mortar more common issue I bet the range of the explosives would have to be reducedf.

I think the Mortar presents an interesting advantage to the Marine team, but the 160 point price point to get it, plus figuring out who gets to control it, makes it a lot of hassle and a huge point investment. 160 points is a huge investment that can go to a lot of other things that may be of far better use.

E: Best I can see is a Specialist Mortar kit that has reduced range and slightly less explosive range but is far more portable.

[Denied_Existence]

I COMPLETELY disagree with the original post.

My experience so far with the mortar is that it is only a majorly effective weapon when it is a paired team of competent mortar-man and dedicated, knowledgeable spotter. In that situation, it is a devastating weapon, but can and will be map-dependent in effectiveness (Ice colony, for example, makes all indirect weapons pretty useless at some point.).

Once the hype dies down and ROs stop handing them out to any Engineer that asks nicely, it will fill a role the marines don't really have currently: A weapon that is only brought out when a specific plan is in place by command, and the personnel are available to operate it competently.

Giving the mortar freely every single round will make it a less interesting weapon, cause more xenos to know how to play against it, and inevitably lead to some sort of compromise (read: nerf) for the priviledge of not having to pay an up-front Req price.

[Steelpoint]

The Mortar strikes me akin to the M56D.

Taken from another gamemode (Whisky Outpost) and given to the Marines more so to see the item used in game instead of rotting in a in-development gamemode.

[thatguyfromlife]

Once RO's and Command staff learn who's the most ROBUST with a mortar, I think we'll see it used much more effectively. Right now almost any baldie mcgee can get one, and leaving to first come first serve may not help matters.

[Surrealistik]

If you wanted to make the Mortar more common issue I bet the range of the explosives would have to be reducedf.

I think the Mortar presents an interesting advantage to the Marine team, but the 160 point price point to get it, plus figuring out who gets to control it, makes it a lot of hassle and a huge point investment. 160 points is a huge investment that can go to a lot of other things that may be of far better use.

E: Best I can see is a Specialist Mortar kit that has reduced range and slightly less explosive range but is far more portable.

I agree with this.

The mortar is more of a defensive/turtling tool than an offensive one (it's much better on defense than offense, both because of the spread + delay with distance and the inability to fire into caves), and the last thing marines need is yet more defensive tools; marines need siegebreakers, and since the sentry nerf, they lost one of their better offensive support tools.

A mobile (including ammo that could fit into packs), cheaper, and much shorter ranged siege breaker mortar (as in, you'd need to build a push base/outpost for it) would be preferable, particularly if it could just quickfire on tac bino lasers without requiring inputs.

Perhaps it could be added in addition to the standard fixed mortar emplacement instead of being a conversion of it.

Giving the mortar freely every single round will make it a less interesting weapon,cause more xenos to know how to play against it,

This is inevitable; not an argument.

[Renomaki]

As much as I like the mortar, I rather keep it as a risk VS reward item you can get from cargo, rather than making it an item that is going to spawn in for free and eventually be taken for granted (or nerfed into the ground in order to compensate the whole being free thing).

A mortar isn't required to win, but it is a nice option for a CO who wants to spice up his tactics a bit, give them a sort of choice as to how to prepare for the mission.

You got a fuckton of funding to begin the mission, what do you do with it?:

Buy an extra sentry to help defend the FoB or an outpost more easily?

Invest in a Mortar to provide your men some form of field artillery that can be positioned at a firebase or the FoB itself?

Or maybe you might just want to get some Heavy Pulse Rifles for your marines to give them more Dakka?

The feeling of choice makes being a CO more interesting, because it opens the way for varied tactics, keeping xenos on their toes.

I say keep it as a optional item only. It shouldn't be mandatory, and I don't want engineers to start skipping lunch to rush their enginevends in a desperate attempt to snag the mortar first. The squad that gets the mortar should be chosen by the CO, not by who comes first.

[Weaselburg]

Once RO's and Command staff learn who's the most ROBUST with a mortar, I think we'll see it used much more effectively. Right now almost any baldie mcgee can get one, and leaving to first come first serve may not help matters.

I am hoping I would be on that list, got recomend for a medal for great firing (Though the spotter did all the work) If you have a great spotter and a competent Mortarman, it is DEVESTATING. Otherwise it is a waste of points. Ex. Charlie putting it in the middle of a road on LV.

[Freedominspace]

I'm down. Mortars are good in the right hands.

[Heckenshutze]

I'm down. Mortars are good in the right hands.

yup

[Arbs]

Yes the mortar is worth it. Just put some extra effort in giving a command headset to the gunner or handing out station bounced radios for the gunner and spotter to communicate.

And of course, make sure to give it to capable people.

[Kesserline]

On high/med or high-pop rounds, choosing between :
8 to 10 APRs and 4 to 5 AP ammo boxes
1 mortar + set of ammo + continuous logistical flux

It's only worthy if the users are good, if the map goes for it, and if the Command has a plan for it.
If only one of the third is not good, Mortar efficiency is reduced greatly.

Command is like all offensive ? Mortar will be meh.
Map is Ice and the plan is to go underground ? Meh.
Users are the one that ask for 500 plasteel and make 869 entrypoints ? Meh.

I saw how great it could be in good hands and I saw how OB-FF-level it could be in bad hands (literally turning a USCM major into a Xeno major).

Literally no for it to be distributed/issued every rounds. It is a tool that must be linked to the strategy and the assets using it.

[Surrealistik]

On high/med or high-pop rounds, choosing between :
8 to 10 APRs and 4 to 5 AP ammo boxes
1 mortar + set of ammo + continuous logistical flux

It's only worthy if the users are good, if the map goes for it, and if the Command has a plan for it.
If only one of the third is not good, Mortar efficiency is reduced greatly.

Command is like all offensive ? Mortar will be meh.
Map is Ice and the plan is to go underground ? Meh.
Users are the one that ask for 500 plasteel and make 869 entrypoints ? Meh.

I saw how great it could be in good hands and I saw how OB-FF-level it could be in bad hands (literally turning a USCM major into a Xeno major).

Literally no for it to be distributed/issued every rounds. It is a tool that must be linked to the strategy and the assets using it.

Don't forget the insane opportunity cost in metal.

Anyways, this is exactly why Engineers should start with one (1) between the lot of them.

[Feweh]

You guys are literally suggesting and bringing up shit that has very obviously already been thought of by the dev team.

Theres a reason this isnt a thing.

[Blade2000Br]

Give mortar to enginners... The most guys that strand off alone and die...

No, thanks.