M5 RPG discussion

[Tony Lotrick]

Hello, i created this topic because i want to know your opinions on how good or bad is SADAR M5 RPG currently.
We all know that is support weapon, that is supposed to help squads to fight against heavy armored targets, blow up enemy barricades and anyone who hides behind them, but what application it have in battle against aliens?
Especialy now when aliens get a major buff to stuns, so please share your experience, tactics and interesting situations as rocket spec.
Because i'm pretty shit player and cant kill anything with it, and others specialists are always pointing theirs finger at me and laugh. Please, i need adviсe.

In my experience i have a major problem when i am trying to blow up T2 xenos (If i see T3 i immediately grab my m41a with ap rounds since RPG is useless against them and T1... you know, you dont need a spec help to murder them).
Its smoke cloud! Yes, smoke cloud. Countless amount of situation when i and my minions squadmates stay in the fireline, i shoot a rocket at xeno and they cannot finish it off, because smoke cloud from rpg surround them blocking their view and chance finish off xeno. When i try to stay at some distance from the squad i always get captured by flanking aliens, when behind them, my fire line are blocked, and when staying in frontlines i am facing mostly T3 aliens.

So, how are you fighting with this problem? How do you use this heavy weapon? Some people telling me that i just need to apply bayonet to it, but i cant.

[DriedMilk]

In my opinion, RPG ammo cost should be lowered or make the Spec kit spawn with more ammor. The RPG used to be the main Queen takedown weapon but now, it's fairly shitty.

Simply because Xeno are either, stun proof, close enough to cause FF or far enough that you can't shoot dark tiles.

Also the fact that it makes you a big juicy target for Boilers and Praetorians spitting you from tiles with no light.

The backblast also prevents friendlies from swooping in the stunned Xeno after it gets hit.

AT rockets also seem to be bugged and are pretty useless because they do jackshit against the 'armored' castes.

In my opinion, the kit needs a heavy rework in order to make it viable again. It's pretty fucking hard to even fire a single rocket before getting boiler clouded or focused to death.

[edda]

Sniper and M5 RPG need retools. B18 is a bit old but is still a strong carry kit. Flamer and scout are super-solid kits and are really good right now.

I also REALLY don't see the point of limiting specs so they cannot pick more than one of the same kit. Why?!?

[Rohesie]

The sniper is currently a weaker version of the scout, which is frankly the strongest spec by far in my opinion. Not only may out-snipe the sniper, but it also has access to tactical binocs instead of the useless regular ones.

Flamer and B18 have their niches, and may be quite robust at what they do, supporting pushes and raining death among the benos.

So fully agreed, sniper and RPG could get reworked, the latter more urgently than the former. A good sniper can still be a very valuable asset, but a RPG spec is outplayed in al fields. I even got a rocket to the chest as a PFC and walked it out after some stun time. Not the most fearsome of weapons.

[Tony Lotrick]

I also REALLY don't see the point of limiting specs so they cannot pick more than one of the same kit. Why?!?(c)

Because then all specs will take what is currently working against xenos, remember 4 SADAR specs? Currently specs rush to vendors for Pyro kit and scout kits, and if you spawned pretty far from your squad room, well, prepare to deal with broken explosives (Or just wait when one of smartgunners dies and loot his corpse for better tools)

[BobatNight]

I think everyone can agree that SADAR spec is the least desired right now, though I don't want to see 4 scout Specs running around at once. Maybe limit the class to 2 instead? Or make other Spec loadouts more desirable.

[Casany]

Well since I was here when the SADAR was always the best kit to pick, and when you could all pick SADAR.

The SADAR was an easy tool to powergame. With people like Boris something using the SADAR to instakill queens and such.

SADAR was nerfed because of outcry from xenos. But it was still viable. People like Suro we’re still robust with it. But again it was nerfed so that it was even harder to use. Then came the addition of only being able to pick one spec kit (after Smartgunner got their own role). And people still rushed SADAR so they rose the cost of ammo and reduced the starting ammo. Then they added in the smoke and backlash.

Now it’s at the point where no one wants it. It’s always one of the last kits left.

[Bronimin]

I hear the WP rockets can one-shot T2 aliens and they're pretty cheap, comparatively.

[Tony Lotrick]

And i saw how young drone without pheromones get a direct hit WP and did not lost even 20% of her hp.

[Morgan]

RPG spec's life got a lot harder than it already was when all the xeno castes got increased explosive resistance making the stun not last as long, right now you're just a walking instant aoe stun pretty much since rockets no longer kill xenos even on direct hits, WP is useless as it does not stun nor does it do enough damage to kill t1s or t2s and worst of all its the most expensive rocket type for some reason, right now the meta is ordering HE only due to AT actually not doing what it was made for which is killing armored benos like the crusher or queen, instead it does jackshit to them so you pick HE for the massive stun radius and reliability against pretty much everything minus ravs,crushers and the queen,

The RPG spec is completely useless alone however in open maps where he can position himself to fire rockets without the smoke blinding other marines from doing a follow up the RPG can be quite strong specially with the massive radius but it definitely needs some love, Honestly though i think the b18 and the sniper spec specially need some changes more urgently than the RPG does.

[spookydonut]

RPG is on the list to be reworked but sniper is probably first.

[Madventurer]

As a person who regularly plays xeno, I have noticed that the RPG is decidedly un-threatening.

I've seen T2s walk away from direct/near-direct hits without really caring at all.
It's not even funny when the worst the RPG has to offer is the white screen for a second or two, I don't feel threatened by the RPG at all, especially when the RPG is unsupported. I'm not afraid of the RPGs damage, only that the disorienting effect will prevent me to fight his buddies.

In my opinion, that's not how you should treat an anti-armor bazooka.

[Rohesie]

RPG is on the list to be reworked but sniper is probably first.

What's planned for the sniper?

It's good that it's getting some love, since now the meta is just to chug down incendiary ammo and set xenos on fire, maybe running for the kill after with sidearm.

Flak and marksmen are pretty much ignored every time.

[spookydonut]

we did scout first then added pyro, there's other stuff in the works at the moment but i believe the BMC has said publicly that he'll be redoing the sniper. RPG needs attention but there's a lot of other stuff that needs to be finished first.

[WinterClould]

I delightfully look forward to the upcoming changes.

[ColdSuit]

Oh thank god!

The SADAR (I dont give a shit if its a RPG now, its a goddamn SADAR in my heart) needs some buffs. The HE is useful only as a stun, as is AP. WP is just laughable.

[Nickvr628]

Give the SADAR built in night vision binoculars so the player can target and take out the big xenos. The sprite has a targeting box and scope on it doesn’t it? Currently you use it in practically CQC range, and the blast radius means even less of your screen is a valid target because of FF. Binoculars and night vision would let it target the T2s and T3s it needs to, and make it a viable support weapon.

[WinterClould]

Give it a mini scope and nvgs. Also a snowflake attachment somewhere so it can keep its magharnessyness

[caleeb101]

Having played my first few spec rounds with this weapon, I can conclude it is complete ass compared to Scout or any other spec (except maybe sniper)

My advice is get to your prep room faster and pick something worth a damn. The only things you can kill with this are a Praetorian and all T2's/T1's. Anything else is gonna cuck you before you even try it. I literally just went around killing Hunters and spitters the first time I got this spec until I ran outta ammo.

While the armor is lovely cause it allows you to be speedy mcspeedster, the kit comes with a truckload of disadvantages that make it just.. eugh. Here's my list of issues:

1. Weapon limitations. You can't put any weapon on the armor except the M5 RPG.

2. Slow. When wielding the RPG, it makes you slower than a PFC with regular armor wielding their M41A. Which means you're super vulnerable because you're slow and your armor is barely going to protect you from one slash. So a big advantage of your kit.. just got negated by using your kit. Great.

3. Dark tiles. Dark tiles are the bane of this spec. With no special/night vision , you have to depend on flares. So you have a weapon you don't want to fire too close to you
but which you struggle to fire at a distance. If you depend on someone elses armor light who's in front of you, the shot only becomes harder because.. well you have more friendlies to worry about hitting.

4. Awkward ammo. I have to put all my ammo in a backpack. Backpack nerfs, now I have to stow my RPG, grab my backpack, grab the rocket, place my backpack on my back, grab RPG, load it, shoot. Also, the M5 doesn't really have any killing power outright. What I mean by this is you always have to have a follow up. So it's 100% support. And because of the awkward ammo, the only slot left for a secondary is the dreaded... belt slot. So you get a rather shitty choice between the M39 Submachinegun, M44 ol' unreliable Revolver, M4A3 good for nothing pistol or a machete.

5. >Tfw no built in mag harness????

[immaspaceninja]

I also have no clue why the smoke from HE is still there. It was introduced to weaken the sadar meta a long time ago, because HEs were actually deadly against every kind of alien, even the queen. There is no need in it rn.

[Vispain]

Begin Rant

So....basically I view the RPG as the crappiest Spec tool. This is because the stun doesn't always work, no matter what you use, and you'll rarely get a kill with it even if you use a rifle as a secondary or have backup shooting at the hostile.

It used to be pretty good but has declined pretty hard. I still see promise in it though. One of the few times I played it after it got worse, I shot a Queen with it and, with another marine, put a full rifle mag in the queen. Sure we got the kill but I can tell you this...

1. It's concept, max damage in one shot doesn't work currently. It has a hard time even killing. IMO it can barely and I mean barely counter T2s. And that's if you are lucky enough to even get close to a get a shot on a boiler, prae or carrier. As for the Spitters and Hunters....Nope. Those will likely bounce your shot like they are a t-34 and/or won't be stunned for long if at all by any shot you do manage to get on them The rate of fire...none (as it should be) ... makes it so you may get a hit on a xeno, bring it down to half or a quarter health if lucky and then the xeno gets away. All in all...pathetic.

2. The stun time is crap.
You'd think a rocket hitting a xeno dead on or even next to it would stun the xeno longer than only a short 1-3 seconds. Nope.

3. The fire damage on the HE doesn't hurt as much as it should.

4. The damage from having a freakin' rocket being shot into a xeno just isn't there.
( Don't even get me started on CAS, but that is a different discussion).

Basically....
The RPG is a weapon that has HIGH damage output in one shot with a relatively long reload time (as it should be)
Theoretically, the catch to the RPG's long reload should be the fact it can near kill/outright kill and stun xenos.
Realistically, the RPG's damage just doesn't hurt or even stun the xenos like another spec can.
Even a Sniper Spec can have a easier time killing. If a sniper's theory is decently high damage, good reload rate, slow rate of fire, then the RPG's should be extremely high damage, 1-shot rate of fire with long reload.

Edit: I don't want to be an advocate for one-shot one-kill RPG Spec on really any tier of xeno but dammit... of all the Specs you'd think the RPG Spec has some firepower behind him....

End Rant

[caleeb101]

Begin Rant

So....basically I view the RPG as the crappiest Spec tool. This is because the stun doesn't always work, no matter what you use, and you'll rarely get a kill with it even if you use a rifle as a secondary or have backup shooting at the hostile.

It used to be pretty good but has declined pretty hard. I still see promise in it though. One of the few times I played it after it got worse, I shot a Queen with it and, with another marine, put a full rifle mag in the queen. Sure we got the kill but I can tell you this...

1. It's concept, max damage in one shot doesn't work currently. It has a hard time even killing. IMO it can barely and I mean barely counter T2s. And that's if you are lucky enough to even get close to a get a shot on a boiler, prae or carrier. As for the Spitters and Hunters....Nope. Those will likely bounce your shot like they are a t-34 and/or won't be stunned for long if at all by any shot you do manage to get on them The rate of fire...none (as it should be) ... makes it so you may get a hit on a xeno, bring it down to half or a quarter health if lucky and then the xeno gets away. All in all...pathetic.

2. The stun time is crap.
You'd think a rocket hitting a xeno dead on or even next to it would stun the xeno longer than only a short 1-3 seconds. Nope.

3. The fire damage on the HE doesn't hurt as much as it should.

4. The damage from having a freakin' rocket being shot into a xeno just isn't there.
( Don't even get me started on CAS, but that is a different discussion).

Basically....
The RPG is a weapon that has HIGH damage output in one shot with a relatively long reload time (as it should be)
Theoretically, the catch to the RPG's long reload should be the fact it can near kill/outright kill and stun xenos.
Realistically, the RPG's damage just doesn't hurt or even stun the xenos like another spec can.
Even a Sniper Spec can have a easier time killing. If a sniper's theory is decently high damage, good reload rate, slow rate of fire, then the RPG's should be extremely high damage, 1-shot rate of fire with long reload.

Edit: I don't want to be an advocate for one-shot one-kill RPG Spec on really any tier of xeno but dammit... of all the Specs you'd think the RPG Spec has some firepower behind him....

End Rant

1. I mostly agree with this. You gotta get close to make the shot effective but if you're too close, you're likely to hit yourself or even worse, get stunned by the beno. However, what I disagree with is the stun time thing. I think it's' a decent amount of time, long enough to get a few kills on T2's. If you catch a Boiler lacking you get slap it too.

2. Again, I disagree with the stun time. It's long enough. Any longer and it'd receive 100000 complaints and honestly, rightly so.

3. You mean White phosphorus? If so, I agree 100%. It's complete ass and the rocket doesn't even do impact damage. Plus you're likely to set allies, foes and yourself alike on fire which is way more lethal to a human due to burns being extremely detrimental to health/speed and the risk of getting husked.

4. Eh. Yeah. It's most noticeable on AP rockets. It's a super big struggle to hit anything but a Crusher. They used to screw a crusher up so bad. But with the new Crusher buff, you may as well be firing High Explosive rockets at them cause the result will be the same.

[davidofmk771]

Honestly?

Bring back the SADAR, built in scope (and maybe guidance of some sort?) and make it more powerful. If thats too much, maybe include a short firing delay? Maybe even keep the M5-RPG as a single-use launcher that can be special ordered by req and used by standards.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: MAKE THE CRUSHER LESS WORTHLESS!

There is no excuse to have a powerful rocket launcher unless you have a powerful foe for it to focus on instead of gibbing random spitters. The crusher needs to be buffer for this little pipe dream of mine to be in any way reasonable.

[Nickvr628]

What if we gave each squad one of the current versions of the M5, and then made the spec version a fancy guided missile launcher to use. Think like giving each squad the equivalent of a AT4, something every IRl Marine is trained to use, and a Javelin Missile System for the specs.

We gave a smartgun to each squad, why not give anti armor capability to each squad?

[Lukey111]

the BMC