Police abuse logs

[Royal Griffon]

While I haven’t specifically been abused by police, apart from maybe being annoyed by one for not wearing my ID (I was logged into the medical record terminal helping another MP, hence no ID), I find that even though there are some hard asses (Knight, Oostveen and Crowmel) they usually leave me alone as long as I have all my cards in order. Forms filled, SECURE EQUIPMENT and staff in check, things like that. I don’t think I’ve actually been arrested by them (or anyone else for that matter) lately, apart from the time Anders arrested Billy Bob and myself for having contraband in our research lockers (katanas of all the coolest contraband!).

Billy Bob and you
Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum I swear I didn't even have to step in medbay half the time and I already knew it was you two doing something, I was worried that you were gonna drug me though and then feed me a monkey cube and see what happens however some of those times

[ThePiachu]

I knew yesterday I'd be in for a bit of a treat as an MP after the CMP opened the round by proclaiming his first two rules - "no homo and no jews". Sure enough, they did deliver some fun when we were told to bug marines for not wearing helmets and then proceeded to taze some medics in medbay for trespassing while they should be in briefing. Had to flash that one about three or four times before I could set the timer and lock them in. The other MP was a bit meme-worthy - they proceeded to "label all of their equipment after freedom", then when that was deemed "damage to government property" in an off-hand remark from CMP, they proceeded to strip themselves and brig themselves. Eventually when another prisoner was getting rowdy they left their cell, armed only with a stun baton and briefs to enact justice...

I didn't see the end of that round, but it sounded like it was going places...

[ThePiachu]

viewtopic.php?f=114&t=17373

[Loco52]

I knew yesterday I'd be in for a bit of a treat as an MP after the CMP opened the round by proclaiming his first two rules - "no homo and no jews". Sure enough, they did deliver some fun when we were told to bug marines for not wearing helmets and then proceeded to taze some medics in medbay for trespassing while they should be in briefing. Had to flash that one about three or four times before I could set the timer and lock them in. The other MP was a bit meme-worthy - they proceeded to "label all of their equipment after freedom", then when that was deemed "damage to government property" in an off-hand remark from CMP, they proceeded to strip themselves and brig themselves. Eventually when another prisoner was getting rowdy they left their cell, armed only with a stun baton and briefs to enact justice...

I didn't see the end of that round, but it sounded like it was going places...

I was the CMP, the round ended by Ra'id and I RPing with a salesman colonist. We kidnapped her, took her to station, I tried to convince her to give me valuable info by threatening to cut off one of her fingers but nothing worked, so when I finally agreed to her demands ayys boarded the alamo. We took the colonist down went back up just to be killed by one single spitter in brig like 2 nubs. Pretty fun round.

[ThePiachu]

Had a round playing as CMP a few days back. Apparently a lot of people ordered frivolous things from the Requisitions and all of them got approved. One problem though - RO didn't order metal for FOB and didn't have the points to do so (at least that's the rumour, as RO did later say they had points to spare). CO got mad, ordered RO arrested for neglect of duty. Well, it had to be done, but being a good CMP I let him have a word with CO first and didn't abuse him too much while brigging him for minimal amount of time.

[edgardo]

As a CL I got arrested for interferring with a arrest or a Survival, who got resisting arrest for moving a bit, IMPROPER UNIFORM, and CONTRABAND, WHICH HAPPENDED TO BE THE UNIFORM HE WAS WEARING. WE BOTH GOT 45 MINUTES IN THE BRIG! CMP should be a whitelist role at this point.

i was that survivor... pretty nice round we literally 99% OF THE ROUND ON BRiG

[Weaselburg]

i was that survivor... pretty nice round we literally 99% OF THE ROUND ON BRiG

Yeah. They even added time to my sentence for being pissed, so I probably got at least 50 minutes in total.

[edgardo]

Yeah. They even added time to my sentence for being pissed, so I probably got at least 50 minutes in total.

even when the xenos came to brig they hold just because us xd

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I’m really tired of the MPs who disregard a CMP order not to arrest someone because “MARINE LAW TRIUMPGS ALL OMG”

Last time I checked a CMP determines if a crime was committed or not, and if the CMP is ordering an arrest void, that means a crime has not been committed.

Part of crimes being committed are really intent and the concept of mens rea (the evil mind.)

A CMO who locks a highly modified pulse rifle so it can’t be stolen and kept safe to be turned over to the first available MP during a wave of mass casualties is not committing theft or possession of contraband.

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

MPs are a fun and interesting role on the server that in no way ever detracts from rounds.

[Philby0]

I’m really tired of the MPs who disregard a CMP order not to arrest someone because “MARINE LAW TRIUMPGS ALL OMG”

Last time I checked a CMP determines if a crime was committed or not, and if the CMP is ordering an arrest void, that means a crime has not been committed.

Oh man. That happened to me just yesterday.

Near roundstart, one of the MPs finds a couple dexalin pills in Charlie prep. The MP asks me to authorise a search on one of their medics, I say why not.
Somehow it took 20 minutes for them to find the medic, and tries to search just as the marines will deploy. Of course the medic stepped right back into the dropship and went away.
So I tell the MP to drop it, it's unsecured equipment, it was retrieved, the marine was warned, add a note on the records and let it go.

But no that MP decides it's insubordination
He even requested to be sent planetside to arrest the medic, when there was only 3 of us.

Fast forward to boarding.
Command decides to abandon CIC for SD. They set up red alert. I'm getting a pulse rifle and order the MPs to get armed and get to SD.
The dropship crashes, I get killed minutes later on my way to SD.

As I'm ghosting, I try to see if the MPs made it to SD yet.
This guy was in the brig, setting up the time for the medic.

I can't tell if there was meta grudging involved, but my money's on overzealous MP.

Bear in mind, the reason that MP wanted to search the medic is because they never actually got solid evidence it was them.

At least the next round we had a good MP team, even though there were griefers, staff dealt with them before we could even hear about it.

[Pogo92]

Oh man. That happened to me just yesterday.

Near roundstart, one of the MPs finds a couple dexalin pills in Charlie prep. The MP asks me to authorise a search on one of their medics, I say why not.
Somehow it took 20 minutes for them to find the medic, and tries to search just as the marines will deploy. Of course the medic stepped right back into the dropship and went away.
So I tell the MP to drop it, it's unsecured equipment, it was retrieved, the marine was warned, add a note on the records and let it go.

But no that MP decides it's insubordination
He even requested to be sent planetside to arrest the medic, when there was only 3 of us.

Fast forward to boarding.
Command decides to abandon CIC for SD. They set up red alert. I'm getting a pulse rifle and order the MPs to get armed and get to SD.
The dropship crashes, I get killed minutes later on my way to SD.

As I'm ghosting, I try to see if the MPs made it to SD yet.
This guy was in the brig, setting up the time for the medic.

I can't tell if there was meta grudging involved, but my money's on overzealous MP.

Bear in mind, the reason that MP wanted to search the medic is because they never actually got solid evidence it was them.

At least the next round we had a good MP team, even though there were griefers, staff dealt with them before we could even hear about it.

There should honestly be a Rule 0 that a CMP or MP can (and should) waive minor violations if there is a legitimate OOC reason and if the server would be more fun because of it. Strictly applying "Muhreen Lawl" at the expense fun is not a beneficial or tenable server policy. And I don't mean fun as in, Deltard thinks it's fun to shoot and steal from other Marines or do immersion breaking stuff. I mean, an unattended Flamer in prep should generally result in a warning instead of 40 minutes of brig time for the SL after goading the him into Disrespecting a Superior and prompting a mutiny from Charlie squad, delaying the briefing by 15 minutes and ruining the round start for everyone.

[Blade2000Br]

There should honestly be a Rule 0 that a CMP or MP can (and should) waive minor violations if there is a legitimate OOC reason and if the server would be more fun because of it. Strictly applying "Muhreen Lawl" at the expense fun is not a beneficial or tenable server policy. And I don't mean fun as in, Deltard thinks it's fun to shoot and steal from other Marines or do immersion breaking stuff. I mean, an unattended Flamer in prep should generally result in a warning instead of 40 minutes of brig time for the SL after goading the him into Disrespecting a Superior and prompting a mutiny from Charlie squad, delaying the briefing by 15 minutes and ruining the round start for everyone.

Ahem, I see a couple issues with this sentence here:

MP/CMP are not there to be the happy squad. They are supposed (as in, intended since start) to follow marine law to the letter. We actually got players warned as CMP for only giving out warnings when a crime was being comitted. as the military police force, you HAVE to act upon a law break, no matter what the intention was OOC nor if it would be "more fun" because of it. If a law was broken, regardless of reason, you must act upon it and deal with it it as MP.

On the case you presented, it is wrong in multiple ways: first, the MP is the one that decide what charge the person is getting, which can be looked upon by the CMP by way of appeal, by following what is on marine law. minimum time is warning + confiscation of the weapon and maximum is 15 minutes. the MP in the case is the one that will be deciding what punishment the SL would get.
Secondly, disrespect charge is the easiest to not get in trouble. Just shut up and comply. If you are a dick to the MP, then you will be getting into a bad time. Just shut your mouth and appeal accordingly to probably get a lower sentence.
Thirdly and lastly, if a squad is "mutinying" then they are gonig agaisn't rules, as they didn't followed proper procedure for it. They would all get a ban if they tried to do anything mutinious like.

All in all, MPs are not your friends, they are there to enforce the law on the ship. They are not supposed to be goodie angels looking up on marines, pardoning based on rank and all this stuff Marines come up with. Sure, they can RP to change some mood, but they never cannot refuse to apply the hammer when needed.

[Loco52]

i was that survivor... pretty nice round we literally 99% OF THE ROUND ON BRiG

You could totally ahelp that cuz durr durr illegal

[Pogo92]

Ahem, I see a couple issues with this sentence here:

MP/CMP are not there to be the happy squad. They are supposed (as in, intended since start) to follow marine law to the letter. We actually got players warned as CMP for only giving out warnings when a crime was being comitted. as the military police force, you HAVE to act upon a law break, no matter what the intention was OOC nor if it would be "more fun" because of it. If a law was broken, regardless of reason, you must act upon it and deal with it it as MP.

On the case you presented, it is wrong in multiple ways: first, the MP is the one that decide what charge the person is getting, which can be looked upon by the CMP by way of appeal, by following what is on marine law. minimum time is warning + confiscation of the weapon and maximum is 15 minutes. the MP in the case is the one that will be deciding what punishment the SL would get.
Secondly, disrespect charge is the easiest to not get in trouble. Just shut up and comply. If you are a dick to the MP, then you will be getting into a bad time. Just shut your mouth and appeal accordingly to probably get a lower sentence.
Thirdly and lastly, if a squad is "mutinying" then they are gonig agaisn't rules, as they didn't followed proper procedure for it. They would all get a ban if they tried to do anything mutinious like.

All in all, MPs are not your friends, they are there to enforce the law on the ship. They are not supposed to be goodie angels looking up on marines, pardoning based on rank and all this stuff Marines come up with. Sure, they can RP to change some mood, but they never cannot refuse to apply the hammer when needed.

Great dude, I'm not talking about what is, I'm talking about what should be. I know the rules perfectly well and I don't need you reading the rulebook at me. I'm telling you they are detrimental to roleplaying and enjoyment. If you can't have a discussion about the value of the rules as they are and what they could be, then there is no point in responding to my post.

[Skimmy2]

Great dude, I'm not talking about what is, I'm talking about what should be. I know the rules perfectly well and I don't need you reading the rulebook at me. I'm telling you they are detrimental to roleplaying and enjoyment. If you can't have a discussion about the value of the rules as they are and what they could be, then there is no point in responding to my post.

What "should be" is very subjective, the MP's job is to enforce Marine Law, they "should be" arresting criminals.
It is illegal to recieve a Pardon, it is illegal to give them a warning when Marine Law doesint permit it.

I could easily "tell you" my opinion that following Marine Law improves roleplay and enjoyment, as well as ignoring your discussion and inform you to not reply if you'd like.

[Pogo92]

What "should be" is very subjective, the MP's job is to enforce Marine Law, they "should be" arresting criminals.
It is illegal to recieve a Pardon, it is illegal to give them a warning when Marine Law doesint permit it.

I could easily "tell you" my opinion that following Marine Law improves roleplay and enjoyment, as well as ignoring your discussion and inform you to not reply if you'd like.

Yeah, opinions are kind of the whole point. Argue your opinion. That's what an argument is, a discussion of opinions based on objective and subjective anecdotes.

Are you a robot or something? This is basic human stuff. I'm trying to convince people of the value of changing something, not understand the objective definitions of the rule. Thus, you are engaging an entirely different discussion to me that has no relevance to anything I said. At all!

Which isn't even getting into the plethora of situations in which MPs ALREADY provide extra-judicial lenience to violations in game without criticism or punishment. That is not an argument I particularly want to have, but it does highlight the necessity of basic non-rigid judging in a game intended for entertainment.

[FearTheBlackout]

Having some sort of Security department or another is so integral to Space Station 13 that I honestly couldn't see a server without it. They're not there to ruin your round or constantly nitpick Marine Law; they're there to punish lighter incidents of griefing and ensure people are following the formula of the server. If you get arrested for shoving people in line, it's because you're disrupting people getting their attachments and going to fight aliens sooner, not just because Marine Law says so. If you decide to go LRP, annoy the hell out of people and get arrested for some trumped up charge, it's because you're not complying with the setting of the game or assuming the role of your character, which is the bare minimum the staff requires of you to play.

tl;dr like real law, marine law is there to protect and serve, not enforce rules just for the sake of enforcing them

[Skimmy2]

Yeah, opinions are kind of the whole point. Argue your opinion. That's what an argument is, a discussion of opinions based on objective and subjective anecdotes.

Are you a robot or something? This is basic human stuff. I'm trying to convince people of the value of changing something, not understand the objective definitions of the rule. Thus, you are engaging an entirely different discussion to me that has no relevance to anything I said. At all!

Which isn't even getting into the plethora of situations in which MPs ALREADY provide extra-judicial lenience to violations in game without criticism or punishment. That is not an argument I particularly want to have, but it does highlight the necessity of basic non-rigid judging in a game intended for entertainment.

We can easily make everybody on the server a robot by simply making all Marines have to follow Marine Law as server rules, basic human stuff need not apply.
Regardless of how you parade yourself, you're attempting to discuss change to marine law and if you want change, make a thread discussing it or go to gitlab.

[DasCorncakes]

I play MP very often and I end up picking up guns and taking them to the armoury at the start, marines are all super busy getting ready to go down and fight. If it's a slow shift I'll pick up and throw out trash. I can make some leniency's sometimes too. For example, an MP wanted to arrest someone for assault since they got pushed/disarmed in the line and I told him the point of the assault law is to make sure there's no harm or injury and he argued with me in front of the marines for a few minutes before I said, "You know what, if you want to be so meticulous, i'm sure you can handle this. good luck" and I left. he ended up getting beaten up by a group of angry deltards and never said anything via radio and never wanted any of the people, I only learned he got beaten 15 minutes later when he was bitching about me not being there. If he said anything I would immediately run in and flashbang them but he was probably biting his tongue cause he didn't want to seem like a coward, which is not cowardice it's smarts.


Don't be a crappy MP, your job is more than just brig people cause x. there's circumstance. You are allowed to give some leeway. a MP's job is to make the ship a better place for everyone not brig people for leaving guns on the floor because they picked the wrong gun and couldn't be bothered to run all the way to the armoury and then the drop ship, guns on the floor are still a problem but there's different ways to fix them. brigging him for leaving weapons on the floor won't fix it immediately, taking it to the armoury will fix it.

Also for a case of the pilot crushing marines, I usually either don't push any charges cause it could be ruled as suicide as the pilot had absolutely no way of avoiding the scenario, and therefor should not be held responsible. same with tanks backing up and running over a blind marine by accident.

Don't be a shitty MP, your marines will be there for you if you are nice to them. I got my leg blown up after aliens boarded the ship and I was heading from CIC to SD and a marine took it upon himself to take me to EVAC despite me telling him three times to take me to SD. First ever time I technically lived as a marine.

[Pogo92]

We can easily make everybody on the server a robot by simply making all Marines have to follow Marine Law as server rules, basic human stuff need not apply.
Regardless of how you parade yourself, you're attempting to discuss change to marine law and if you want change, make a thread discussing it or go to gitlab.

I can discuss it wherever I damn well please, and this is a relevant topic about it. You're not even trying to address my posts, you're just using faux-arguments of authority to ignore it. If you're not going to address anything in my post, don't respond to it. I don't know what your perogative here is or what you thinking you're trying to prove. I'm just trying to have discussion about how Marine Law's RAW impacts the way MPs enforce rules.

[Nickvr628]

They're not there to ruin your round or constantly nitpick Marine Law;

Then why is that EXACTLY what happens a lot of the time?

[Ugnip55]

I remember I got arrested for 20 minutes for assault because I got choked, so I had to push X off me.

[Nickvr628]

If anything, reduce an officer’s ability to stack modifiers on top of crimes. Things like insubordination, disrespect, resisting arrest, unbecoming conduct, they all suck and turn a reasonable 10 minute crime into a 45+ minute one.

Anyone who thinks a player will sit in a cell for almost an hour instead of ghosting to play xeno is lying to themselves.

[FearTheBlackout]

Then why is that EXACTLY what happens a lot of the time?

Because people abuse the role or think it needs to be applied down to the letter; I'm not denying it happens. I call it "the Jack Knight mentality". Instead of using Marine Law to make sure the Squadies safely get off the ship and the crew is doing their job, you do the opposite because you can.

Not that there isn't precedent for MPs behaving that way. After all, if you're required to follow Marine Law as rules, it must surely mean you have to apply the same standard to everyone else, right? Well, while not enforcing the law is certainly cause for Neglect of Duty, you have to pick and choose what's really going to impact the round positively and what isn't. If Marine Law really IS meant to be applied rigidly, something has to change.