The absolute state of HEFA grenades

[Swagile]

You'd be surprised how much the Marines hate some things. I know that some Marines will toss ammo they find inferior down disposals or leave them laying around since I once heard the CMP report to the RO that they found a white phosphorous rocket laying around in the open, so they (the CMP) decided to keep it as a paperweight in the same round that the CE found a collection of random grenades tossed down disposals.

yeah cause white phosphorus is as effective as a miniflamer on a pulse rifle

a waste of a rocket that could have been AP that stuns or HE that stuns a lot and several xenos.

if white phosphorus did blue flame pyro spec damage then id reconsider it, but otherwise its trash.

[Gnorse]

ay don't diss the miniflamer. it's been stealth buffed and actually lights shit on fire now.

[KingKire]

yeah cause white phosphorus is as effective as a miniflamer on a pulse rifle

a waste of a rocket that could have been AP that stuns or HE that stuns a lot and several xenos.

if white phosphorus did blue flame pyro spec damage then id reconsider it, but otherwise its trash.

If i found out it was you who threw my rockets out, ima' shake you till your common sense falls out. Experimentation is the breeding ground of success.

Its 30 points for 6 WP rockets as opposed to 60 points for 6 AP rockets.

[Zelkova64]

I like HEFA, becouse I don't use grenades during fights in fear of FF'ing. HEFA is great to deny larvaes when you are captured. I didn't tested it yet at full health, but I guess you can die even after being glued to the nest ASAP.
Everything to not give xenos satisfaction/killerboner.

Normal nades are fucking joke, explosion in your hand does really nothing. Nothing to the point of me "plotting" that there is some line of code that decreases dmg in certain occasions.

Just want to say: as an SL on round start - I accidentally primed a Normal nade in Bravo prep. Instead of putting it in my pocket. It blew up IN MY HAND. I had a small bruise on my hand and face, No blood loss, No crit. I stood back up and bandaged MYSELF. While Bravo prep was disintegrated. The doctor said I was a miracle.

[Swagile]

ay don't diss the miniflamer. it's been stealth buffed and actually lights shit on fire now.

ok correction

the mini flamer is better that WP

also thats a clear indication that WP sucks; its 30 points instead of the superior AP 60 point rockets or the 40 point HE, both of which have significantly better uses

either way, WP doesn't scare two of the castes that SADAR is meant to counter; Queen and Ravager, Ravager since he runs away too fast for marines to burst fire him down if he's good, and Queen due to screeches. A SADAR scares Queens with AP and HE; same with Ravager. WP does not.

WP is therefore bad and a waste of a backpack slot better used for another HE or WP rocket

[Kineem]

You'd be surprised how much the Marines hate some things. I know that some Marines will toss ammo they find inferior down disposals or leave them laying around since I once heard the CMP report to the RO that they found a white phosphorous rocket laying around in the open, so they (the CMP) decided to keep it as a paperweight in the same round that the CE found a collection of random grenades tossed down disposals.

i intentionally look around for HEFA grenades and grenade boxes just so i can flush them down disposals where no marine will ever get to use them and as the B18 spec i flush my HIDP + HEFA into disposals.

there's almost no point in using any grenade type that isn't HEDP. HEDP clears sticky and stuns aliens, HIDP flames an entire area for movement denial, and HEFA clears sticky, stuns aliens and deals a meager amount of damage to xenos while raping marines. the damage it deals to an alien isn't enough to kill them; if you're killing an alien with a grenade it is far more likely due to you following up the stun with bullets than the paltry amount of damage dealt to them via shrapnel.

[Ranged66]

I like HEFA because when I'm using it I know it's coming. It's a surprise for the rest of you!

[FGRSentinel]

I mean, I could see someone getting two HEFA grenades for the express purpose of arming one in each hand and suicide charging the queen or something as a "last stand" desperation move, but I'm not sure if that's allowed by the rules or if it'd even work.

[FGRSentinel]

Interestingly I just had a round where HEFA was shown to have a redeeming quality. There's one thing it's better at killing than Marines: PMC spooks shooting up the USCM and trying to breed benos. Say what you will about them, those grenades hate WY more than most Marines, maybe even more than Patton "Hardtack" Moore does.

[Dolth]

I miean I killed 2 prae 1 crusher 1 queen 1 mature lurker with HEFAs at the same time once...

Notice the s at HEFA.

[FGRSentinel]

That's more the exception than the norm. I could bring up the time that WY sent some PMCs to get a corrupted queen off the ship, took over Research, and gunned down the CO before I flung a HEFA into the breach we made getting to them and how that grenade killed all but one PMC, but that's an exceptional circumstance more than anything else since the Marines backing me up were all either already down or had the brains and space to get behind cover while I stepped out from behind a corner to throw the grenade and stepped back.

Most of the time, HEFA grenades are ineffective at best and outright terrifying sources of sudden Marine death at worst, which is why your story and ones like mine are the exception rather than the rule.

[Dolth]

Tbh HEFA are not much if a big deal. Get a *rest macro and you are mostly unharmed even if 10 HEFA explodes at 2 tiles.

Now on another hand they are extremely powerful with no IFF with a great range.

While most marines don't have the braincell to prone, nor to aim correctly, they FF and thus everyone hate those.

But lemme tell you. Strong weapons are great, it just need to be mastered.

[FGRSentinel]

Discount sniper rifles have been in the game for longer than HEFA via rail scopes, yet people STILL fail to clear firing lanes for a pulse sniper if they aren't right on the front line (and even then). Hell, I think they actually gave the sniper spec's rifle IFF explicitly because the inability of others to clear the firing lanes led to multiple Marines dying to sniper shots, but I wasn't even playing CM when this change was made as far as I know. SADAR specs have the same problem where people will merrily walk in front of them during a fight and get gibbed, then get salty at the SADAR for killing them or their buddies.

Saying that HEFA is amazing and it's only held back because Marines can't do X to make sure FF doesn't happen as if it's the simplest thing in the world would be like me saying "rail scopes would be so much more effective if Marines would just not stand in front of me.

[Swagile]

Discount sniper rifles have been in the game for longer than HEFA via rail scopes, yet people STILL fail to clear firing lanes for a pulse sniper if they aren't right on the front line (and even then). Hell, I think they actually gave the sniper spec's rifle IFF explicitly because the inability of others to clear the firing lanes led to multiple Marines dying to sniper shots, but I wasn't even playing CM when this change was made as far as I know. SADAR specs have the same problem where people will merrily walk in front of them during a fight and get gibbed, then get salty at the SADAR for killing them or their buddies.

Saying that HEFA is amazing and it's only held back because Marines can't do X to make sure FF doesn't happen as if it's the simplest thing in the world would be like me saying "rail scopes would be so much more effective if Marines would just not stand in front of me.

your right

i was around when snipers did NOT have IFF

it was the WORST spec bundle to pick and was only picked if you were the last spec to pick an item, because of that very reason; no one ever cleared your lane, so for every 1 T3 you killed, 10 marines died to FF (exaggeration, but you get my point)

[Dolth]

Your sniper can't kill shit on its own AT BEST you can force a xeno to flee with incendiary OR finish off a xeno who got critted by friendlies.

HEFA at least can one hit crit a T1 and prob a T2 if rightly.

Also here is a fact from the military AND a tip.
You're responsible for each shot you take.
As you will never manage to teach baldies to NOT stand in front of you, you need to adapt. That is all.

Regarding HEFA its use is really restrained due to the FF and range but again, it's strong. High risk/reward.

[FGRSentinel]

By that same logic, aren't you also responsible for every grenade you throw? That's literally my point. A decent sniper can hold down an area pretty well if their firing lines are clear, just like a grenade can buy Marines some breathing room, IF the grenade doesn't shred them with shrapnel.

[Dolth]

Totally, yeah you're supposedly held responsible for every shots and grenade throw you do aswell as you're supposed to make sure you won't hurt friendlies and that involve not taking the shot if someone is close enough to jump in front your gun faster than your reaction time (aka 1 tile from your line).

HEFA shouldn't be used in the open but more in concealed area. Historically, frags are called defensive aq they kill and offer area denial. HE are commonly named offensives as the main ouput is the blast (yeah it obviously kill if you sit on it tho), and gives you time to move in and neutralize. So yeah defs are meant to throw and run back, not offensively.

In conclusion, what I said with responsability stands for grenades too. And as everyone isn't always aware of their surrounding therefor the shooter should be ultra careful when shooting. Especially nades.

[KingKire]

Interesting thought: What if were not using HEFA grenades as intended?

The devs made it so resting (i.e going to ground) causes the grenade to do zero damage. Thats its biggest feature

I.e, This is the perfect AllaAckbar grenade.

Marines preps two grenades, runs TOWARDS the enemy, chunks two grenades, and goes prone. Aliens gotta go prone or take damage, which means, more suppressing?

I dont know thoughts? Anti queen screech grenade? YAHHH shit, since the queens roar knocks everyone over, just prep out shrapnel grenades as soon as the queen moves to roar. (Or pounce, or acid, or any other stun locker.) If marines are being dragged away, toss shrapnel since they're already prone from being pushed over by xeno.

[Sora9567]

Interesting thought: What if were not using HEFA grenades as intended?

The devs made it so resting (i.e going to ground) causes the grenade to do zero damage. Thats its biggest feature

I.e, This is the perfect AllaAckbar grenade.

Marines preps two grenades, runs TOWARDS the enemy, chunks two grenades, and goes prone. Aliens gotta go prone or take damage, which means, more suppressing?

I dont know thoughts? Anti queen screech grenade? YAHHH shit, since the queens roar knocks everyone over, just prep out shrapnel grenades as soon as the queen moves to roar. (Or pounce, or acid, or any other stun locker.) If marines are being dragged away, toss shrapnel since they're already prone from being pushed over by xeno.

I'm preeeeeetty sure that if you rest on an HEFA nade you end up killing yourself. Also, as for your idea for the shrap nades to be good anti-Queen, you'll end up hitting marines who are immobile, but AREN'T knocked down.

[Dolth]

I'm preeeeeetty sure that if you rest on an HEFA nade you end up killing yourself. Also, as for your idea for the shrap nades to be good anti-Queen, you'll end up hitting marines who are immobile, but AREN'T knocked down.

If you stand on the same tile you take whole damage and just die, if you're 1 tile close to the HEFA you will just get a soft blast, really, nothing major at all just regular bruises and burns on all over the body, at most orange soft crit.

I can confirm those works perfectly on the Queeno since I killed 4 already with only HEFA. (Well, HEFA until crit, then gunning them down).
Requires a lot of HEFA but yes as long as you're down you take no damage, and guess what does the Queen when she rushes at you and especially SEES/HEARS a lot of fucking grenades? She screeches. Everyone goes down.
Those who are still up should be out of range if you aim a bit behind the Queeno, which will hurt her nevertheless AND the rest of the xenos. If you still hit some marines. Uh. *shrug. Collateral damage and worthy for a queeno kill.

Now if you're having a primed HEFA you'll just die instantly, heh, happened to me already. That's a high risk high reward trick (higher risk than reward tbh)

[Bancrose]

As the Commander I have a good laugh watching a bunch of marines from the Overwatch Console. The most common thing I see is people taking underbarrel flamers and a bunch of shrapnel nades and hiding them under a chokepoint or high traffic areas. They put em close enough to cades or in doorways so they can flame them and just watching marines turning queens, crushers and every other xeno into hamburger helper from just one flame.

[RuAlastor]

The main problem with HEFA is to negate its damage you need to rest, which works ABSOLUTELY awful. Time to get up is killing, you can do nothing resting so you just a pure food for benos. Probably, if you devs rework rest, more ungas will use it.
Once I tried to prone down, to evade HEFA and FF from behind but some cheeky aNcIenT rUnNeR (69) just dragged me away, while I was getting up.

[kastion]

I tried a few times as B18 to pull off a setup where I load 1 hedp then 1 hefa rinse and repeat. I was trying to stun a xeno then shoot a hefa right ontop of it, but im not good enough to pull it off. I think if you can do it fast enough it would be the most op thing in the entire game cause it would instakill t2 and anything lower. I could be wrong though.

I can also tell who never plays Xeno when they say things like HEFA does no damage to xenos and decimates marines. HEFAs hurt even as an empress none the less anything lower. I am a xeno main I get hit by them all the time.

[Dolth]

-snip

Oh great who else does that? I thought marines couldn't understand that.

[Bancrose]

Oh great who else does that? I thought marines couldn't understand that.

I saw you and kesserline do it on Prison and LV before, I seen Lother and Sleepy do it. Biceps once, and a few names that I can't remember off the top of my head. Its honestly funny to watch. Because I also watch the times you guys fail and hit like 40 marines with shrapnel and turn them into ground beef. Its honestly the funny part about playing Command staff.