"MPs need to fucking chill" #2

[ExothermicPotato]

In memory of everyone contracting canceraids from prison beds There is going to be a long rant regarding MPs playstyle or "MPs need to fucking chill".

Two situations I personally was in.

Me and my pal are medics. He picks up a pack of eggs in the hall. Right before deployment MP pulls him out of DS demanding to give her the fucking eggs! Rightfully so she is politelly told to fuck off and I pull my friend into DS because it's about to leave. Later - arrested for resisting arrest, friend - for "heist of the century". Took CO to stop this RP shitshow and let us go. Oh, you're wondering MP had RP reasons to do that? How about military operation underway is more important than a pack of bloody eggs? Or arresting the only squad medics bringing in casualties and resupplying to then help wounded planet-side? Nope, MUH ROLEPLAU. That's why the whole chain of command was helping us. Even OOC-wise, you not only spoiled a game for us but also for people awaiting help planet-side ending up dead. Well, at least MP enjoyed his RP, I guess.
How do you play it cool? Say, these now rare chicken eggs were put away for CO's birthday cake and they are valuable therefore. And then, maybe, put this marine on a duty to make the cake. Nope, sounds like complicated unoriginal bs, better arrest the fuck out of you.
Or the endless classic of missclicks: End of briefing, accidentally shoot my engi, say sorry and treat him (I was a medic, luckly no wounds). Oh boy! I'm bringing you in for homicide attempt! If you want to RP, how about my gun accidentally went off due to no safety on and get a reprimand for that, given no casualties? Of course, alpha shooting up marines and benos alike is nothing compared to a misclick. Nah, just arrest him especially if he's a squad medic, and don't even bother asking what happened.

And it's disappointing to see this happen to other players around me. There is litterally so many RP opportunities for MP given the authority they have. But they chose to exercise it in a most unoriginal and annoying way. If you chose to be a stern officer, try to RP it in some interesting way - arresting everyone for small infractions is so predictable, boring and gamebraking, honestly. You believe in discipline? Ok, here are some ideas for you, dull brain! Make the whole squad do push-ups for a single marine's fuckup (while he eats his donut, yes). Or muster the whole squad so the delinquent gets a smack from each marine. Sounds more fun than MUH RULEZ-RP and playing like completed robots.
Or find that guy who stuffed the briefing room with tofu and forcefeed him it in front of everyone? Or make it look like CO has soy allergy! Nope, better just chill, not an RP opportunity, not even a misdemeanour somehow, unlike someone taking eggs.
Or that medic who lubes up the medbay? Maybe he is shizo and loses his shit when doors squeak? Nah, arrest is a preferable RP strategy.
Just some things I could remember right away. And there is way more!

Just to conclude, formally MPs can be justified in these cases, but just oh so formally! But then there is human part of it, people come to play the game, enjoy themselves and not to RP some overly realistic shit. If someone pulls non-gamebraking shenanigans, let it be and play it cool. I'm not saying annoying players, powergamers, and so on are to be let off though.
And if you care that much about military order aspect of RP, how about DELTA STOPS DISOBEYING ORDERS FUCKING UP ALMOST EVERY MISSION? Seriously, this spoils the game way worse in the long term than any dude having laughs and keks during the game. Yes, I'm more of a casual player and I see RP games (like very DnD) as a chance to have some fun, not be a tryhard-RP fuck. And I really don't see how people find it enjoyable to be that strict roleplaying dude.

inb4 Your actions - your responsibilities
inb4 "Uh, hurr durr, if you say that to a cop IRL..."
If you treat a computer game that way or feel an urge to act like 24/7 boomer-security,, then you have problems, not the game.
And it is a game for a reason because here you'd do thing you wouldn't otherwise have done, given some IC and common sense constraints. Or in other words RP is Playing a Role. "And what is drama but life with dull bits cut out". So cut out all the dull bullshit from your RP.

inb4 MPs are antagonists of marines before benos or in their absence
Ah, you mean when you get arrested right away without a chance to explain yourself or even to try and RP the situation and get to stare at your screen for next 15-30 mins? Sounds like an engaging RP opportunity to me!

inb4 Maybe you you should start to RP first?
"Oh, MP actually what happened is %RP-believable explanation%". "Eh, don't care, looks like intergalactic treason, taking you in" Gets to RP a man tied to a prison bed

inb4 Maybe it's you who is the problem?
Is misclicking (not mentioning alpha again) and assisting my egg-thieve friend so much of a deal? I always follow my SL and follow orders (not mentioning delta again), treat wounded and attempt my best to retrieve them, don't meta and so on so forth. So I consider myself someone who at least does best not to break the game.

[BurnedSweetPotato]

I was brigged for 10 minutes because I picked up an alpha engineer's claymore for 3 seconds and he reported me for theft. The claymore was just sitting on the ground, away from everyone. He came up to me and said it was his, so I complied and put it back down. Still reported me to the MPs.

[coroneljones]

Or that medic who lubes up the medbay? Maybe he is shizo and loses his shit when doors squeak? Nah, arrest is a preferable RP strategy.

Considering he is griefing medical, yes an arrest is justified.

Or the endless classic of missclicks: End of briefing, accidentally shoot my engi, say sorry and treat him (I was a medic, luckly no wounds). Oh boy! I'm bringing you in for homicide attempt! If you want to RP, how about my gun accidentally went off due to no safety on and get a reprimand for that, given no casualties? Of course, alpha shooting up marines and benos alike is nothing compared to a misclick. Nah, just arrest him especially if he's a squad medic, and don't even bother asking what happened.

Holster your gun.

Make the whole squad do push-ups for a single marine's fuckup (while he eats his donut, yes).

Or muster the whole squad so the delinquent gets a smack from each marine. Sounds more fun than MUH RULEZ-RP and playing like completed robots.
Or find that guy who stuffed the briefing room with tofu and forcefeed him it in front of everyone?

All of these are illegal.
First: you can't drag the whole squad in due to one guy's mess if they didn't aid him.
Second is physically abusive.
Third is hooliganism .

[Mister Jeether]

> Marine Law Literally allows their Captain to Battlefield execute ANYONE under their command for whatever shit they do.

> Marine law Literally allows you to be arrested and if you exaggerate, BE EXECUTED, by several verbal offences (that stack) to your Captain because his tactics got your friends killed.

Ahh, i love realistic politics. Politics that would never EVER be accepted 200 years in the future. I think the problem here is that the admins turned the USCM lore wise into a dictatorship. Just read a bit of the official alien lore, and you'll see how different the USCM really is.


On the topic discussion.. MPs really do need to chill out sometimes, hell, they are sometimes even worse then the baldie PFCs when it comes to their jobs. Oh boi, you were perma'd for X crimes you committed, and we are being boarded by the personification of fear and despair, in a lizard form. WEW, BETTER EXECUTE THE PRISIONER.

This actually happened with me once.

[Boersgard]

During an admin event recently, the game printed off a list of traitors - a holdover from an old game mode that no longer exists - and the CMP (Proudmoore) went around immediately arresting every single person on the list. My first two adminhelps about it were completely ignored and brushed off, and it wasn't until admins were getting ahelps from 4+ people that someone actually bothered to do something about it.

Now I'll say that I wasn't against doing some kind of brig RP and internal investigation stuff, it was an RP round and I was expecting something along those lines to play out - but the admin team (FOURTEEN ADMINS ONLINE AT THE TIME) ignored the ahelps and couldn't even be fucking assed to say something like "Don't worry, you're not going to be brigged the entire round and left in brig indefinitely doing nothing". I only wanted to be assured that this wasn't someone powertripping and that there'd be something cool happening soon that would make sitting in brig doing literally nothing eventually have some payoff.

And then to find out later on that not only was there not intended to be any sort of RP in this vein, but that the CMP simply went out of his way to brig half a dozen people with zero evidence of any crimes except their name was on a piece of paper - the sort of shitler behaviour that usually gets people jobbanned from security on other servers - but that also the admins couldn't give half a shit to actually respond and look into it until there was a critical mass of people complaining about it, and then on top of it to find out this CMP player only got told to stop, recieved no percievable punishment or IC/RP responce/handling, logged off immediately after doing all of this so I couldn't even discuss it with them in-person/in-character, and I see and hear about them the VERY NEXT DAY being a security shitler again. It just floored me.

I'm fairly new to the server, but I am not very impressed with the way the admin team actually handled this - especially the lack in communication skill and maturity shown when an ahelp gets closed instantly with no reply in a manner clearly meant to say 'fuck off stop bothering us' with nobody bothering to even check into what the issue might be, with a second ahelp completely ignored until a bunch of other people also ahelped ten minutes later, AND THIS HAPPENING WITH FOURTEEN FUCKING ADMINS ON. Nor the fact that someone who clearly doesn't 'get' the point of ss13 in general is allowed to continue playing in roles where they clearly just want to play in the powergameiest, lowest RP manner possible.

This was really poor form by the CMP player and seemingly half the admin team for the server. Fuck, I'm still so salty about it I almost feel like I should've made a thread for it specifically.

[RuAlastor]

+1 for this
IMO, MPs need a rework. Generally, being MP isn’t rewarding in any way but for ruining someone’s else gameplay.
Mostly, I see MP either being afk/not paying attention to anything before s/he hears gunshots OR doing some lrp stuff, like launching himself with a fire extinguisher bucklwd in a wheelchair across Almayer
The only time I had some interesting RP with MP was with Sam Wise as CMP, when I was a survivor

[Arbs]

No man you need to chill the fuck out.

I dont give a damn what you play this game for cause Its pretty damn simple.

Dont do stupid senseless shit and you won’t yet arrested and shit won’t come your way.

Use your logic.

Fuck do you need a carton of eggs that arnt yours for on your deployment?
Why are you not properly securing your weapon in briefing and as a result end up shooting your buddy due to your own incompetence of holding a mouse?

All your proposed alternatives are bullshit and illegal. Your squad wont get punished for you and punishments arn’t meant to be funny. Punishments are there to make you suffer. You fuck up, you pay for it proportionally. Thats how you maintain discipline, by learning from your mistakes instead of getting salty about this shit.

In the end you’re roleplaying as part of a military institution, so better act like it.

Moral of the story? Dont do obviously stupid shit and then cry about it when you get arrested/punished for it.

[Tetrino]

Stop getting caught, nerds. The only time I've been arrested was when I got falsely accused of shooting up the Alamo.

[kastion]

No man you need to chill the fuck out.

I dont give a damn what you play this game for cause Its pretty damn simple.

Dont do stupid senseless shit and you won’t yet arrested and shit won’t come your way.

Use your logic.

Fuck do you need a carton of eggs that arnt yours for on your deployment?
Why are you not properly securing your weapon in briefing and as a result end up shooting your buddy due to your own incompetence of holding a mouse?

All your proposed alternatives are bullshit and illegal. Your squad wont get punished for you and punishments arn’t meant to be funny. Punishments are there to make you suffer. You fuck up, you pay for it proportionally. Thats how you maintain discipline, by learning from your mistakes instead of getting salty about this shit.

In the end you’re roleplaying as part of a military institution, so better act like it.

Moral of the story? Dont do obviously stupid shit and then cry about it when you get arrested/punished for it.

Moderators have come together and decided that PFCs can meme all they want and they wont do anything. Makes total sense that a pfc can talk shit to a commander in the middle of briefing. /sarcasm

Mps should take this in their own hands and crack down on any idiot doing anything. Max punishments and smack them for any little thing you can get away with. Don't get in trouble but just start crushing anyone that you legally can. Moderators aint gonna do shit.

[Avalanchee]

I woke up, geared up in prep and ARES started shouting "1 Unknown Lifeform in Upper Research" so I ran there, I broke the window decided to defend the almayer and some jerkass MP tazed me and told me that I am arrested (god if I could I would have PBd him) he threw me inside the cell for 40 minutes, removed the lightbulb and started threatening me that he will remove my shoes because I COULD HAVE used them to damage the window, I ahelped and told him to fuck off. Then I ghosted and went xeno.

[ExothermicPotato]

Considering he is griefing medical
Holster your gun.
All of these are illegal.

Well, can't argue with this much. But again resorting to formal explanations of a situation when it's not gamebraking is boring. And it could be SL himself, say, MP suggests him that. And afterall RPing a scene from FMJ would be cool. And misclicks, they just happen.
You also miss to comment on more formally unxplicable stuff where I have the point.

Stop getting caught, nerds. The only time I've been arrested was when I got falsely accused of shooting up the Alamo.

Well, of course if I do some shady or mischievous stuff, I don't do it in front of MP. But this just doesn't apply to my situations. They come up to you like MUH ARRESTING YE. That's it. If you try to do something they just go apeshit. Just see the egg-case again.

punishments arn’t meant to be funny. Punishments are there to make you suffer
Use your logic.
All your proposed alternatives are bullshit and illegal
roleplaying as part of a military institution

Dude, are you really writing this about a computer game, that isn't even HRP? Are you working as a teacher in some shitty school or what makes you treat a game in such a boring way? Just imagine you playing DnD, fuck...

Also
>Write down why you think something is wrong supporting it with arguments
>told I'm crying
That's some fine use of logic here. Coming back to that egg case. How do you happen to miss the detailed explanation IC-wise AND OOC-wise and come up with yet another original justification of this clownfiesta - they weren't yours. Can you please read it again and say if it can be justified in any way? IC? OOC? And do you really give a damn about someone picking up eggs off the floor?

>obviously stupid
A misclick and picking up eggs off the floor? Sure, stupid and gamebreaking af with shit ton of malicious intent. Not even close to deltunga that actually ruins every game. You ok there?

And concluding this comment
>I dont give a damn what you play this game for
For fun? People play this game for fun? Of course, common sense and rules apply. But ultimately people play computer games for fun.
>roleplaying as part of a military institution
Go enlist, bud. And rejoice the ultimate military institution roleplay.

And the "I don't give a damn" part is what makes it worse. You don't care if others will enjoy your actions or how it indirectly affects them. Before someone gets cocky, rules are rules. But these are by far not as detailed as real laws, so there is room for RP-interpretation, and how you execute them is what differs a fun RP from stiff annoying MUH RULEZ RP.
And inb4 How about your actions affecting others too?
Read closely both the misclick-case and egg-case and tell where did I treat some one unfairly? The wounded dude, I rushed to help him.


What pities me is people overall not being farseeing and overlooking what actually flaws the game: people not following orders, rushing disobeying them, and plain insubordination. This is what actually breaks RP and not a pack of eggs.
Or tell me, people. Maybe I'm just considered a normie invading a sacrosanct land of nolifer-nerds who come here to RP life?

[Avalanchee]

+1 for this
IMO, MPs need a rework. Generally, being MP isn’t rewarding in any way but for ruining someone’s else gameplay.

[Archiezt]

Dare I even ask...

Egg case?
Did someone take a carton of eggs and have that turn into a massive drama?
That sounds great.

[Urytion]

The other day I had a marine get arrested for not having armour on in the req line. According to the moderator at the time that's SOP and cannot be altered by anyone except a whitelisted CO. So... yeah. You can be arrested for not being ready for deployment before deployment. Fun stuff.

[ExothermicPotato]

Dare I even ask...

Egg case?
Did someone take a carton of eggs and have that turn into a massive drama?
That sounds great.

Haha, yis. But not entirely so. It mostly boils down to me and my friend just detained because "these eggs not yours, reeeee". I mean it could have been a fun situation, just read the possible explanation. But here I'd just go for shitshow term rather then drama. And it was so bad that it's also an OOC issue.

[RuAlastor]

No man you need to chill the fuck out.

I dont give a damn what you play this game for cause Its pretty damn simple.

Dont do stupid senseless shit and you won’t yet arrested and shit won’t come your way.

Use your logic.

Fuck do you need a carton of eggs that arnt yours for on your deployment?
Why are you not properly securing your weapon in briefing and as a result end up shooting your buddy due to your own incompetence of holding a mouse?

All your proposed alternatives are bullshit and illegal. Your squad wont get punished for you and punishments arn’t meant to be funny. Punishments are there to make you suffer. You fuck up, you pay for it proportionally. Thats how you maintain discipline, by learning from your mistakes instead of getting salty about this shit.

In the end you’re roleplaying as part of a military institution, so better act like it.

Moral of the story? Dont do obviously stupid shit and then cry about it when you get arrested/punished for it.

Just 2 question?

Do you mark for insub every marine who doesn’t follow order? I mean any order? Even from lCpl? “You’re role playing as a part of a military institution...”

Do you trial every FF marine?
Then why should they be trialed for doing literally the same thing but on Almayer?

[KennyTGuy]

I woke up, geared up in prep and ARES started shouting "1 Unknown Lifeform in Upper Research" so I ran there, I broke the window decided to defend the almayer and some jerkass MP tazed me and told me that I am arrested (god if I could I would have PBd him) he threw me inside the cell for 40 minutes, removed the lightbulb and started threatening me that he will remove my shoes because I COULD HAVE used them to damage the window, I ahelped and told him to fuck off. Then I ghosted and went xeno.

Did you ask what was going on before you started breaking into a restricted area? 40 minutes though for breaking a window? Jesus...

[JJG]

Yesterday some poor Bravo schmuck got arrested for attacking a fellow marine with a bullet casing in briefing. He was arrested 5 minutes after the fact with seemingly no prior warnings...amazing

And then there is the absolutely classic arrest. No MP's, checkpoint shutters and prep shutters are down. Its been three minutes since briefing, no command staff seemingly on comms.
Decide to break the checkpoint windows so marines can deploy. MP comes running out of nowhere to suddenly arrest you for destruction of property. (This makes me want to blast their heads off with PB)

[Avalanchee]

Did you ask what was going on before you started breaking into a restricted area? 40 minutes though for breaking a window? Jesus...

It was lowpop, no command staff playing except a PO and the MP, we lost almost everyone in underground caves on Ice.
there was pretty much noone to ask

[KennyTGuy]

It was lowpop, no command staff playing except a PO and the MP, we lost almost everyone in underground caves on Ice.
there was pretty much noone to ask

Ouch thats harsh, probably why he thought he could get away with that nonsense.

[Blade2000Br]

MP role is there to enforce IC rules. They are not there to be your bud.

If you get into a situation where you break the law and complain when you get ounished, then come to forums say that MPs shouldn't do it, then that means you are the reason MPs exist on the first place.

[ExothermicPotato]

MP role is there to enforce IC rules. They are not there to be your bud.

If you get into a situation where you break the law and complain when you get ounished, then come to forums say that MPs shouldn't do it, then that means you are the reason MPs exist on the first place.

Did you only read the thread's title?

[Arbs]

An environment full of people doing dumb shit is a cradle for unruly marines and in most cases I've seen, it leads to marines losing focus, coordination and causes insubordination. And the very existence of marine law in this game is there to prevent these mischievous bullshit that are not severe enough to be dealt with on a moderator level.

And yes I don't give a damn about what you play it for because the perception of fun or whatever is relative to the person and frankly I don't have to care as I'm not here to please you either. What's fun for you maybe isn't fun to someone else. You can ask a lot of people what's fun for them in this game and you'll get a lot of different answers.

But then we have rules and role-play guidelines. And as far as that goes I'm not willing to pretend that I'm fine with a situation that may not be fun to me because you feel like it's fun to you. And then my side of the rules and guidelines dictate that what you're doing is in violation of marine law and that I'm expected to do something about it. And it's ridiculous when you thing about it, especially when it's some dumb crap like throwing eggs or some other retardness among those lines.

As for why your arguments are bullshit, CJ already explained it to you; They're all illegal in accordance with marine law and abusive to other players in accordance with server rules too.

Others are not meant to be and should not be punished for something you did.

NJPs may range from reprimands or PT to extra duties or reassignment to a new post, butNJPs may not be physically abusive.

Your proposals are all abusive physically and presented under the marine law under assault and hooliganism.

Even enforcing them in gameplay would be ridiculously tedious and the possibilities of it to cause complications in the rules are much more surprising than you'd think. This is a game with rules and not a movie like FMJ where they beat the shit outta Pyle.

Think of the marines in this game more than a pack of dogs. And this is where that "you're in a military institution" part comes it. Because role playing means fitting your role, it's just like acting, and your role is that of a marine, not of a junior high kids gang with guns. That is what breaks the RP in my opinion. And in in the end this is a medium-RP server so by all means I have my expecteations on that set accordingly.

I know you don't like spending half a round in the brig, but what I'm going to tell you is to not bring it upon yourself by doing something stupid. It's that simple.

And shall you ever find the MPs doing something that is not fine or abusive as per marine law or server rules, it is your responsibility to ahelp it and/or make a player report, make suggestions, raise concerns based on that to prevent cases like that from happening again or becoming common.

Just 2 question?

Do you mark for insub every marine who doesn’t follow order? I mean any order? Even from lCpl? “You’re role playing as a part of a military institution...”

Do you trial every FF marine?
Then why should they be trialed for doing literally the same thing but on Almayer?

Every MP has their own tolerance levels, the fact that most or some choose not to enforce it is because both them and the staff understand that situation or done for the sake of gameplay, does not mean that it's fine as per law and that they can't do anything about it.

Besides, FF is not a good thing, sometimes it's even grief-tier and while maybe accidental, it's not an excuse for it to be fine, not only not fine when shipside but it's not fine planetside either. Otherwise we could each shoot one another once or twice with buckshot "by accident" and be fine with it under the excuse of accidental friendly fire.

There has been cases of LTs reporting marines for shooting other marines in the field, FF or intentional, especially back when they had access to an MP channel. Most of the FF in game is not reported to the MPs anyways so therefore it cannot be enforced if we are not aware of these cases to enforce them.

And if you're directing those questions to me personally, I don't like bothering with little shenanigans unless it's something excessive, in terms of hooliganism or whatever. In that case of insubordination that you mentioned I always put importance on SL to squad orders as it is more important to success more than the inside the squad orders, due to the way squads are composed and for the sake of gameplay. But for what it's worth you're expected to respect the rank structure as a whole.

And while I can understand something accidental and have an understanding over it and perhaps let it slip, others may not for as long as there are provisions in the marine law for it. So don't be surprised if an arrest for such happens.

My Advice? Avoid giving anyone any reason to arrest you and you'll be fine.

Rather than being guilty and complaining about how MPs may be bad or whatever, try to prevent being guilty in the first place.

[CABAL]

Let's be real: Every server that has sec/"sec-like" role have problems with them. Back when I was playing "classic" SS13 server I enjoyed playing sec (sometimes). That's becouse there was always something to do. You could check cameras, you could man the checkpoint, you could patrol the station, you could go to bar and drink few shots while talking to bartender about gun safety. At every point there was a high chance of crime being commited, or antag threatening innocents.
Sometimes even I was conducting acts that labeled me as "shitcurity" while being human sec officer. The strange thing is that secborgs usually are less likey to be "shitcurity".

Right now MP's are empty inside. It's like being RO and CT, but with marines that can get supplies on their own, like being PO without CAS and medevac, like being MT's without engine, OB and powerloader.

Marines can defend themselfs, they can deal with potential threat shipside themselfs, even when it's another marine. Just shoot suspect untill he is dead, then defib with cable cuffs on.
CL pretty much never gets antag role and this is where MP's shine.

Let's look at Marine Law in terms of NJP which doesn't ruin your game;
0) Resisting arrest: From 10 to 30 minutes, if MP decide that you resisted arrest (and you don't have any means to prove otherwise) so depending on MP and how much of a "Robocop" he is, you will never get NJP.
1) Damage to Government Property: You will never get 10, or less minutes for that, becouse as marine we don't have tools, or skills to repair anything. Brig Guaranteed
2) Hooliganism: Low RP memery. From 5 to 10 minutes, always add 10 from "Resisting arrest".
3) Trespassing: Marines have no reason to trespass, even no OOC reason. This crime never happens.
4) Insubordination: Here comes the meat. CMP who would really want to shit on marines can issue order to "obey the law". You broke the law? Insubordination. Welcome to brig.
5) Intoxication: It's hard to get alcohol shipside and noone will arrest you planetside. Drinking is atleast Medium RP, becouse you are willingly making yourself weaker in confrontation with xenos.
6) Contraband: Crime never commited by a marine, probably once in a blue moon.
7) Theft: 10 minutes minimal. Even chill MP will have to brig you.
x) Other crimes are against rules, or they can't be commited by single marine.

In my opinion MP's are not needed. Marines can enforce rules on themselfs mostly. One "Classic" secborg would be enough to deal with things that they marines don't want to enforce like fistfights, or line skipping.

We don't need MP's. They are "fluff" role, becouse they exist irl.
Change MP's to CO "royal" guard and make new "special" ERT that doesn't have anything to do with xenos boarding ship: MP ERT. They can be called only when there is mutiny happening. It's "win-win" situation. Dead marines have a chance to return to the game and when mutiny happens, they probably died becouse of bad command orders.

[DriedMilk]

cant get shittered if ur CO

heheheheh...