A small rant about (some) Spec players

[Drevenshekel]

I don't know whether its always been like this, but after playing alot of SL and SO recently i've started to notice a somewhat troubling trend with spec players. That being that their are far too many people who roll spec then act like an upgraded PFC who has a special rank that means they don't need to listen to orders. The Spec carries the biggest gun in the squad yes, but just as importantly they need to be ready to take charge if the SL goes down. They have a very high degree of responsibility to their squad but too many of them simply run off on their own or with other squads to selfishly chase kills. I feel like their should be a higher standard for spec players to uphold, a rambo PFC will simply get himself killed but a rambo spec who dies will leave their squad without their most powerful armaments which causes more marines to become vulnerable and die.

I think that if SL's can get job banned for refusing to listen to command than the same should go for spec players who refuse to cooperate either. Good or bad specs can make or break the round for the marines and I think too many players who are rolling spec roll it with the sole expectation that their going to be a one man army who never needs to communicate, lead or coordinate with his squadmates.

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

Time lock baby. We need lots of it. For basically every non-PFC role, with varying requirements for each role depending on its importance.

Xeno needs it too. Those bald queens and T3s are the leading reason on why xeno have been getting kicked pre and post mutation. But they don't need that big of a lock per say. Maybe like 1 hour as xeno to get T3 and 2 hours to get Queen. Should be enough to at least learn the mechanic and how the game plays out.

[Build_R_]

Time lock baby. We need lots of it. For basically every non-PFC role, with varying requirements for each role depending on its importance.

Xeno needs it too. Those bald queens and T3s are the leading reason on why xeno have been getting kicked pre and post mutation. But they don't need that big of a lock per say. Maybe like 1 hour as xeno to get T3 and 2 hours to get Queen. Should be enough to at least learn the mechanic and how the game plays out.

It's a lot of older players that are doing it though, the issue is that people don't report specs wandering off since it's so common to try to rush in and get T3/Queen kills as a spec.

[solidfury7]

Most specialists outright ignore the orders of SLs and Command to do what they want, and it's a big issue.

We should either address this in marine law (let MPs detain people planetside beyond the FOB if the crime extends to Neglect of Duty) or OOCly.

Having specialists refuse to lead their squad because they're running around trying to solo the hive is dumb.

[Steelpoint]

Being a Specialist grants you some of the most powerful guns the Marines have to offer. Naturally you are going to want to flex that privilege, which can be hard when your squad is stuck on FoB duty and you don't see action for over a hour.

Spec is indeed a odd role. Many people dislike how they are essentially the second in command of the squad and have those responsibilities, others may see it as a necessary requirement. I do agree that more needs to be done to address the rambo meta of the Spec role.

My biggest gripe with the Spec role is how I never get the damn role outside of low pop since everyone wants it. Also the stupid mini-game of rushing your prep room without eating, and praying to the RNG gods you spawn near your prep room instead of on the wrong side of the hall, so you have some chance of getting the kit you want. But I digress.

[Drevenshekel]

It's a lot of older players that are doing it though, the issue is that people don't report specs wandering off since it's so common to try to rush in and get T3/Queen kills as a spec.

Would admins even take reports on rambo specs seriously?

[Build_R_]

Would admins even take reports on rambo specs seriously?

If it was very clear that they were ramboing, I would think so. But at most it would probably only warrant a warning unless they're getting reported a lot for ramboing.

[Steelpoint]

The issue there is that you have some squads off doing non-combat operations, such as patrolling or the SL is taking their sweet time. So the Spec decides that their firepower is really needed on the frontline so they rush off to help.

Heck, maybe Specs should be in their own squad to act as a QRF or something. That'd be amusing.

[Drevenshekel]

Being a Specialist grants you some of the most powerful guns the Marines have to offer. Naturally you are going to want to flex that privilege, which can be hard when your squad is stuck on FoB duty and you don't see action for over a hour.

Spec is indeed a odd role. Many people dislike how they are essentially the second in command of the squad and have those responsibilities, others may see it as a necessary requirement. I do agree that more needs to be done to address the rambo meta of the Spec role.

My biggest gripe with the Spec role is how I never get the damn role outside of low pop since everyone wants it. Also the stupid mini-game of rushing your prep room without eating, and praying to the RNG gods you spawn near your prep room instead of on the wrong side of the hall, so you have some chance of getting the kit you want. But I digress.

Your third point is another big gripe of mine, I enjoy playing Spec for both the big gun and also the chance to lead the squad when the SL inevitably dies to friendly fire. I think if it was made clear that stricter spec standards were going to be upheld then it might cause less people to roll for it simply to get the big unga dunga. I also understand that their is nothing worse than finally getting that spec roll for the first time in a week and then being stuck at the FoB, whenever im SL of fob duty I'll give my spec command of a QRF/patrol team and give them some autonomy, but sometimes I cant even trust them to do that because so many specs are silent edgelords who never communicate.

[Sulaboy]

Squad leaders recently got a rule change that gives them some obligation to follow the CIC's orders. What are your thoughts on adding some OOC expectations of specialists?

With it being a higher ranking role in the squad something about leading in the SL's absence, and following the SLs orders could be interesting. We could chalk it up to their training resulting in the position being more disciplined than the standard grunt.

[Steelpoint]

The lore indicates that the majority of the rank and file grunts on the Almayer are mostly newer Recruits or Conscripts, you could chalk it up that the Specialists are veteran Marines brought in from another battalion and hence they have a higher standard of discipline to justify a OOC alteration.

[Szunti]

While I agree specs should be held to higher standards, I don't think they should be second in lead. When a player gets spec, that's really rare, there are even different kits which need to be played differently. They need the round to experiment and find out how to use their equipment efficiently.
When you are leading you need to communicate a lot instead of shooting. Even worse when someone has spec for the first time and he is both learning leading, working with SOs and handling the weapon. That's totally unfair and just wasting a round which could have been fun for said player.

[Grubstank]

A spec focusing on leading the squad is a spec wasted; but I agree something needs to be done about the rambo problem.

[Blade2000Br]

In my Sl days, I would often make my Specs a FT with some marines and given then some autonomy. If they would act right and follow orders, I would even allow then to go in the frontline if they are a offensive type of spec.

But yeahvm, therevis a problem with specs that should be afressed.

[Garrison]

In my opinion, you shouldn't be expecting the high risk, high reward specs to be sticking back and following the chain of command. (Looking at Scout, RPG and possibily Pryo)

Why's that? Cause they wield so much killing/suppressing potential that it's a liability and not fun if they are forced to stick back and wait for the operation to likely go to hell when specs are often renowned for turning the tide single handed.

Another big reason is just how hard it is to become a specialist. When you finally get the role, let alone the exact kit you want. You want to do what you've been dreaming to do. Not sitting back when you could finally be flexing that powerful gun and equipment you've been wishing to get for so long.

EDIT: to add to the last point, I've only gotten to be a spec around 6 times since I started playing CM. Including when Smart Gunner was considered a spec kit.

[Weaselburg]

In my opinion, you shouldn't be expecting the high risk, high reward specs to be sticking back and following the chain of command. (Looking at Scout, RPG and possibily Pryo)

Why's that? Cause they wield so much killing/suppressing potential that it's a liability and not fun if they are forced to stick back and wait for the operation to likely go to hell when specs are often renowned for turning the tide single handed.

Another big reason is just how hard it is to become a specialist. When you finally get the role, let alone the exact kit you want. You want to do what you've been dreaming to do. Not sitting back when you could finally be flexing that powerful gun and equipment you've been wishing to get for so long.

No one expects Scouts to stay behind the lines, but we are talking about people just ignoring ALL orders and trying to solo the hive. They MUST stick to other marines or they WILL die (Scout is a exception). They don't do that.

[Boersgard]

Time lock baby. We need lots of it. For basically every non-PFC role, with varying requirements for each role depending on its importance.

Xeno needs it too. Those bald queens and T3s are the leading reason on why xeno have been getting kicked pre and post mutation. But they don't need that big of a lock per say. Maybe like 1 hour as xeno to get T3 and 2 hours to get Queen. Should be enough to at least learn the mechanic and how the game plays out.

Timelock won't solve this problem. It's not the new players ignoring orders and running off on their own, it's the old experienced players doing it.

[Boersgard]

While I agree specs should be held to higher standards, I don't think they should be second in lead. When a player gets spec, that's really rare, there are even different kits which need to be played differently. They need the round to experiment and find out how to use their equipment efficiently.
When you are leading you need to communicate a lot instead of shooting. Even worse when someone has spec for the first time and he is both learning leading, working with SOs and handling the weapon. That's totally unfair and just wasting a round which could have been fun for said player.

Specs shouldn't be 2IC, I agree. When you're killy by yourself, you concentrate on getting into position to do your work - it's very difficult to do that AND manage a squad at the same time. Usually the best 2IC for a squad is the random PFC's who can now turn the squad into their effective weapon without having to worry about anything else. Medics, and to a lesser degree engineers, also make bad squad leaders.

IMO squad leadership options go best in this order:
SL
[Radioman if we had one]
Smartgunner
PFC's
Specs
Engineers
Medics (never make these aSLs)

[Drevenshekel]

Specs shouldn't be 2IC, I agree. When you're killy by yourself, you concentrate on getting into position to do your work - it's very difficult to do that AND manage a squad at the same time. Usually the best 2IC for a squad is the random PFC's who can now turn the squad into their effective weapon without having to worry about anything else. Medics, and to a lesser degree engineers, also make bad squad leaders.

IMO squad leadership options go best in this order:
SL
[Radioman if we had one]
Smartgunner
PFC's
Specs
Engineers
Medics (never make these aSLs)

A radioman would be a great new support class in my opinion, give him a backpack mounted radio that could act as a squad comms relay if tcomms are down and maybe some other support items such as bino's. They could be like what the XO is to the CO but on a squad level, let new players get a feel for command and communication without having to jump straight into SL (I'm sure its not only me who found it daunting to first leap into SLing). They could also take some pressure of the SL by relaying messages to and from command while the SL is busy barking out orders and shooting xenos.

[Vispain]

A radioman would be cool.

As for squad leadership...
It is entirely possible for a Specialist or any other rank to lead a squad.

As always, leadership should go by rank. No one is going to trust a Pfc with major leadership decisions. The only rank that TRULY can't lead a squad is Medic, and that's just because they are typically always patching together marines.

I'm more likely to listen to someone of higher rank then just about any Pfc. Why? Because most Pfcs tend to be meme machines, untrustworthy or unwilling to lead.

[Drevenshekel]

A radioman would be cool.

As for squad leadership...
It is entirely possible for a Specialist or any other rank to lead a squad.

As always, leadership should go by rank. No one is going to trust a Pfc with major leadership decisions. The only rank that TRULY can't lead a squad is Medic, and that's just because they are typically always patching together marines.

I'm more likely to listen to someone of higher rank then just about any Pfc. Why? Because most Pfcs tend to be meme machines, untrustworthy or unwilling to lead.

Yeah exactly, its more than possible to play spec and lead a squad at the same time. Its just basic communication skills, if your unable to multitask then you should be playing as a PFC. Medics being the exception since they already have so much on their plate. Marines are also more likely to follow a spec rather than some random PFC, even if its a well known PFC the ungas will want to stick with the guy with the bigger gun.

[David Stormwell]

There is also upsides to having a Media SL once in a while, although it depends on the medics Plays style of course, let's say SLs all supposed to report to command and get out orders, Also Medics also know about how many Marines are in fighting Condition

[Kineem]

when I play specialist I refuse to stick to my squad if the orders we're given mean we won't be able to see combat and the SL doesn't want me to go to the frontlines

i'm fine with being an aSL. if I'm in Delta and we have a really bad SL i actually hope they die super early on so that way I can take control of the squad for the rest of the boys.

[Drevenshekel]

when I play specialist I refuse to stick to my squad if the orders we're given mean we won't be able to see combat and the SL doesn't want me to go to the frontlines

i'm fine with being an aSL. if I'm in Delta and we have a really bad SL i actually hope they die super early on so that way I can take control of the squad for the rest of the boys.

While it sucks to roll spec and get FoB duty, and a good SL should let the spec go to the frontline with a QRF to help in the battle. I still think it's a good attitude to listen to your SL, atleast in my experience whenever I have a spec that refuses to stick with the squad it passes down to the PFC's who will also see no reason to stick with the squad and what ends up is a completely disorganised squad and a very stressed out SO and SL.

[RuAlastor]

It's a lot of older players that are doing it though, the issue is that people don't report specs wandering off since it's so common to try to rush in and get T3/Queen kills as a spec.

Once I was playing as SL and my spec wandered of with other squad and died. First, I tried to call him back. He didn’t even answer to me. I reported to XO before his death. No reaction. I ahelped. That’s IC issue.
You can’t make people follow the rule if there’s no punishment.