Marines: Men of valor, or tiny baby cowards?

[Renomaki]

You know, I am honestly tired of the cowardly nature of marines.

Since I left and since I started playing again, I had a lot of experiences with marines being pussies and doing some really shameful things in order to save their own hides rather than die with dignity and honor. Abandoning perfectly good sentries to die when they have plenty of opportunity to save them, refusing to stand and fight to hold the last dropzone even if their commander demands it, constantly showing fear at the mere idea of fighting a xeno hand to hand... It amazes me how, even with all their weapon attachments and the presence of minor celebrities in their unit, they break so easily and flee, or resort to cowardly tactics in order to ensure their own survival, even if another marine could get hurt in the process.

I know, in real life, men are not trained to be endlessly brave. All men break at some point, but you'd think that they would at least be a little more daring... And by that, I don't mean the stupid kind where they go rambo and try to take on xenos alone, that is stupid.

It is ironic that Reno "Weenie" Story, who was known to be a big weenie in his bio, has had a number of moments in his life in the marines where he did some stupidly brave things, charging in to shank crushers, holding his ground with but a sentry to provide him company, and probably other brave things that I can not remember.. But I know I had done most of these things, because I know that it is better to give it your all to the last breath than it is to delay the inevitable and die a coward's death on the sully.

No doubt people will heavily disagree, saying things like "Tactical retreats are not cowardly at all" "Sometimes it is better to run to fight another day than to die a senseless death" "Melee with xenos is the most suicidal thing you could do, that is why most people avoid it when they can" and "it isn't worth dying over a landing pad".

But still... It would be nice if marines, with all their combat experience, would have braver hearts by now, and fight like the marines I imagined them to be, not like a bunch of rag-tag fighters that surrender at the sight of a tank.

[tempchar]

Marines need more inspirational lobby music to get them pumped up and ready to sacrifice life and limb for their country. Research has shown that marine testosterone levels increase by an average of 25% for every round that starts after the "warrior" song plays.

The COURAGE, DUTY, HONOR song however, reminds marines of the propaganda that the USCM used to feed them to get them to join the Corps. Is it no wonder that marines fail to uphold the three values that that song praises?

[RuiXon]

Marines were losing to Xenos until admins changed all their uniforms into schoolgirl outfits. Sometimes testosterone isn't the answer to fighting something that can decapitate you in two seconds; the answer to it is being utterly kawaii~

In all seriousness: its hard to RP a soldier if you never was in the military yourself. A lot of people I've seen either do the john rambo RP, the "everyone on my squad is a bunch of baldies pls fucking die in a ditch" and the scared shitless at first sight of a xeno. All of which is what a civilian usually thinks but training hammers that shit out quickly once you hit boot camp.

Here's some tips about rp'ing as a Marine; don't piss your pants when you see a Xeno; the USCM is a extraterrestrial military organization which deals with aliens all the time but its perfectly fine to be shitting your pants after seeing a lot of shit go down, don't be an utter asshole to everyone you see especially during combat; sure you can be a asshole out of combat but keep it to a minimum, you've presumably trained, eatted, and shitted together with these people and being a massive ass doesn't play out in any military real or fake(unless you're an officer than be as much as a dick as Bill Carson), and finally; keep stealing to a minimum, people in the military steal all the time to get stuff they need but they don't go out breaking into the Logistics Officer's warehouse just for a scope or some shit.

[completelynewguy]

Sometimes the answer to marine cowardice is an M37 loaded with cuckshot. No seriously, just run and point blank the ancient cunter you piece of shit Standards.

[Monoo]

This is a pretty difficult question to approach, from a character perspective. What makes a cowardly marine?

Myself, I have "a rogue's tendency to run away" as one of my character's weaknesses in his dossier. Okay. But he's also a veteran of several years' combat. So he doesn't just up and quit when things get hairy. No, I actually find myself running after downed marines and risking my own neck to save them almost every round. It takes something big, something life-shattering, to activate that long-buried urge to run.

That's how I think marine cowardice should be handled. These are soldiers after all, and they shouldn't panic like they do. But it's definitely okay to break down after your squad gets eviscerated.

Also, I'd like to add that Weenie's one of my favorite characters. His persona's kind of ironic: depicted as a total wimp, the flunky of the Corps. But you play him so calmly, rationally, capably, and, at the best of times, with a lot of bravery. Whether it's intentional or you're just playing the game, I really enjoy watching it unfold out of the corner of my eye every time.

[Jeser]

Dunno, I just try not to do stupid things. For example, go on assault, when aliens are harassing FoB. Or go across the river with only two people. Or keep fighting, when I clearly see, how fast marines are dying, in that case I just will pull wounded one that nearest to me and run to base.

You know, marines often do really stupid things, when they are trying to be brave. I just... don't switch my brains off and not buying shit like "We leave no one behind" and "Hold positions at all costs" bullshit. My ultimate objective: survive myself and help to survive as many adequate marines, as I can. If I said someone "Don't run off", they ran and got captured, I WON'T go for them. Because risking with more marines and my own precious head for some retard, who can't follow simple orders is counter-productive and ALWAYS leads to disaster.

Each marine's cowardice is mix of real cowardice, stupidness and adequate thinking.

[Martzin]

Marines need more inspirational lobby music to get them pumped up and ready to sacrifice life and limb for their country. Research has shown that marine testosterone levels increase by an average of 25% for every round that starts after the "warrior" song plays.

The COURAGE, DUTY, HONOR song however, reminds marines of the propaganda that the USCM used to feed them to get them to join the Corps. Is it no wonder that marines fail to uphold the three values that that song praises?

this

if you play glorious war music the muhreenz will get pumped up and act like suicidal war boys

[Simo94]

the retreating cycle makes me sick, retreat from river to FOB (5+ marines die being left behind)>retreat from FOB to rasp (5 or more again)>retreat to sulaco>in sulaco retreat from lower deck to upper (rip 5+ again)>on the upper deck retreat to evac area (rip 10 in briefing)>in evac retreat inside the pods while ppl fight outside in the evac area (rip 5+)>in the pod we all in stomp/screech range, so GG no re

[Eenkogneeto]

Just experienced this in its prime, marines retreated 40+ people against 13 ayys while they had a fully intact and easily defended FOB.
In the process they lost 100+ sheets of plasteel, a sentry, atleast 10 marines, And then when they tried to land the rasp/pod again they lost even more marines because they were now camped at the LZs.
HOLD
THE
FUCKING
LINE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jTgkTEDDog

[Jakers457]

I think having solid logistics helps with morale. On rounds where marines have won, it's because you'd have the FoB at the back lines then a medical triage at medidome along with a... fire base? I guess? At table fort. And as long as you have people bringing supplies and wounded through that supply chain, Marines tend to stay pumped and more willing to fight.

When we started breaking despite having a numbers advantage in the round Suro mentioned, it was because we had no medics. A lot of soldiers were wounded and had no one to patch them up. I think the idea of being paralyzed or critically wounded on the battlefield is quite vexing for soldiers who know they'll get abandoned and be dragged to the hive in which the xenos will fondle with them until they pop.

[Renomaki]

Also, I'd like to add that Weenie's one of my favorite characters. His persona's kind of ironic: depicted as a total wimp, the flunky of the Corps. But you play him so calmly, rationally, capably, and, at the best of times, with a lot of bravery. Whether it's intentional or you're just playing the game, I really enjoy watching it unfold out of the corner of my eye every time.

In Reno's backstory, it is explained that after all the mockery and insults, he hopes and aims for an opportunity to achieve something that'll finally gain the respect of his peers. This desire to rid himself of his old title and to become a respected warhero is what drives him to do some incredibly suicidal actions when fighting the xenos sometimes, and sadly dying in the process. It also explains why, when he rolls commander, he tends to be a commissar of a leader, due to his refusal to accept defeat and shamed by a bunch of "dumb animals".

In a fair bit of media, there are lots of characters that start out the story as nerds, weeniers, wimps, etc etc etc. But as the story develops and character development takes place, at some point something happens that drives the supposed geek to action, doing what no one in the story would expect of him and either do something that helps the main heroes, saves the day himself, or even just sacrifices himself in order to protect others. You could say Reno is modeled after these sorts of characters.

It does baffle me, though, when I see bios of marines who come off as hardened warriors who aren't afraid of nothing, only to start running the moment they run out of AP ammo or start sweating bullets because they weren't able to get weapon mods for their gun. Not to brag, but Reno has several games where he fended off (and even KILLED) Crushers, with nothing but a BOOTKNIFE. If the platoon weenier could do that, I suppose the local badass would have no problem doing the same himself, right?

[Eenkogneeto]

start sweating bullets because they weren't able to get weapon mods for their gun

I've only dropped once without mods and I only killed 2 ayys before dying horribly due to lack of firepower
never again.

[Casany]

I think marines just need someone to lead the charge. Let's say aliens are attacking the FOB right? One round, when this was happening I led the marines out of the FOB and we attacked together and pushed the aliens back. At other times, YOU have to be willing to give your lives for others. In real life marines would give their life to save 4 others, but here he'd rather save himself then others. It's because as much as we staff try to say you char isn't the main character of the story, marines still think they are. They think the story is about them, so they will do all in their power to live. Another main reason is that a lot of marines don't play xeno. Since they refuse to play xeno when they die its game over. If both these things changed marines wouldn't be near the cowards they are, but I don't see these changing

[RuiXon]

I think marines just need someone to lead the charge. Let's say aliens are attacking the FOB right? One round, when this was happening I led the marines out of the FOB and we attacked together and pushed the aliens back. At other times, YOU have to be willing to give your lives for others. In real life marines would give their life to save 4 others, but here he'd rather save himself then others. It's because as much as we staff try to say you char isn't the main character of the story, marines still think they are. They think the story is about them, so they will do all in their power to live. Another main reason is that a lot of marines don't play xeno. Since they refuse to play xeno when they die its game over. If both these things changed marines wouldn't be near the cowards they are, but I don't see these changing

The problem is is that the longer the round goes on, the more braver Marines are already dead so when a Marine does lead a charge its usually that Marine + one other left behind fending off Xenos while the rest of the Marines just run away. Xenos can be as brave as they want early, mid, and late game because they can always respawn in another larva whereas most Marines never get revived so its encouraging being a coward because you never know if you're coming back or not.

[Simo94]

the more a round lasts the more certain it will be a xeno victory but xenos upgrade over time and marines lose ressources over time

[Joe4444]

the more a round lasts the more certain it will be a xeno victory but xenos upgrade over time and marines lose ressources over time

that's not entirely true. The first part, yes but the second part? I'll have to disagree there. How are marines going to lose supplies sitting on the sulaco? you may say "when new marines join and take equipment!" but are the marines really losing them? nope.They're simply giving them to another person. Unless marines are in active combat all the time. There's no way they'll keep losing supplies.

[Simo94]

im not talking about sitting in sulaco, im talking about the whole round in general, the amount of left behind mags burned flares and metal is crazy just one hour in, also xenos melt/gib marines with 10 mags in backpacks/belts very often

[Jakers457]

A round I've just played, plenty of marines were fighting like lions to some description. You had a small team of marines running through the darkness to grab the wounded out of the medidome, a few of the runners getting killed including me, but I think we brought most of the wounded back to the FoB so a medal for those guys.

Then you had the Alpha SL Victorious, who was fending off ayys on the exposed side of the Rasp. Getting dragged off just as the ship left for the Sully, and even then despite being clawed to shit by a hunter and.. a sentinel I think? She managed to get up and lure them away from the pad to some extent. Even tried taking the hunter out with a suicide nade. Which is pretty cool too watch.

Then you had Bravo, who held the Nexus to the last man which allowed for the rasp to leave in the first place. Admittedly they didn't realize it had left, but they fought to the last man anyway and they held off to the bitter end. The ayys? Ehh, they fought pretty hard too I guess. But they did drag the dead bodies onto the landing pad to be gibbed, so gg them.


Anyway, aside from the cowardice. This is why I play the marine faction solely, just to see this cool shit happen. Like where a guy gets jumped by a hunter meme and his comrade turns around to fucking fight off that shitter to save his comrade. Even in defeat, the Marines can fight like lions and that's where I get my thrills.

[LordLoko]

To be honest, i'm ok with that.

I see the USCM in my headcanon as the worst unit of all UAAC, the guys you want far away because they are trouble. They don't serve in the frontline but instead in protecting isolated colonies in the frontier of colonized galaxy, in a big combat you send them first in suicide mission in lieu of the better trained troops. They are left with second hand equipment (like, why we use pump action shotguns with we have the perfectly better autoshotguns, and those armor look very... outdated? If I can put like that).

The marines are more a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits that have pull together a bunch of disnfuctional idiots to defeat the xenos.

[Renomaki]

To be honest, i'm ok with that.

I see the USCM in my headcanon as the worst unit of all UAAC, the guys you want far away because they are trouble. They don't serve in the frontline but instead in protecting isolated colonies in the frontier of colonized galaxy, in a big combat you send them first in suicide mission in lieu of the better trained troops. They are left with second hand equipment (like, why we use pump action shotguns with we have the perfectly better autoshotguns, and those armor look very... outdated? If I can put like that).

The marines are more a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits that have pull together a bunch of disnfuctional idiots to defeat the xenos.

Huh, funny... You and I have a similar headcanon.

Only difference is, according to my headcanon, the USCM are just fine, your average marines being marines. It is the platoon marines of the Sully that are the misfits of the marines, the rejects that the military grouped together to deal with the more humiliating work or less serious issues. Seriously, the marines on board that ship are so fuckin insane at times that it makes you wonder how they even got past bootcamp without doing something horribly stupid.

The Platoon of the Sully are like B Company of "Bad Company" infamy, and if you played Bad Company, you'd know what I am talking about.

[LordLoko]

Yeah, I thinking more that the entire USCM corps were the Bad Company and there is more effective on the UAAC to deal with the threats more effectively, like regular space marines that fight in space anphibious assaults (from space to land), space army which fight on the land after the space marine landed and the Mobile Infantry (from the book, not from the movie, one roughneck from the book can defeat the entire roughnecks from the movies.) do spec ops shit. They are the butt jokes of the rest of the USSA, of course the common citizen doesn't know that because of propaganda.

The USCM oficially would be concetrated on the "useless" frontier so they can be the first to protect against something that can be worst then them (like pirates), guerilla groups and raiders because that wouldn't need the more well equipped forces to fight so they can be busy with something else more important. If some real enemy attacks (like the USSR) attacks they would be the first to hold the line so the better mobilized troops can come.

[forwardslashN]

To be honest, i'm ok with that.

I see the USCM in my headcanon as the worst unit of all UAAC, the guys you want far away because they are trouble. They don't serve in the frontline but instead in protecting isolated colonies in the frontier of colonized galaxy, in a big combat you send them first in suicide mission in lieu of the better trained troops. They are left with second hand equipment (like, why we use pump action shotguns with we have the perfectly better autoshotguns, and those armor look very... outdated? If I can put like that).

The marines are more a Ragtag Bunch of Misfits that have pull together a bunch of disnfuctional idiots to defeat the xenos.

Tell that to all the marine operators with 20 years of combat experience, 300 confirmed kills, etc. Though my opinion is that the USCM is not unlike any other military force of today. They have adequate training, adequate funds, adequate equipment, but they are just grunts. Private military corps are the real operators, along with the spec-ops teams held in reserve for highly volatile situations.

[Surrealistik]

White listed USMC spec-ops teams might be cool; either that or it would breed even more hatred and resentment than the Pred selection process while burdening admins with even more applications and busy work.

Also yeah, most marines are rank cowards unless they feel they've got an advantage they can push or are bloodlusting.

[TopHatPenguin]

White listed USMC spec-ops teams might be cool; either that or it would breed even more hatred and resentment than the Pred selection process while burdening admins with even more applications and busy work.

Also yeah, most marines are rank cowards unless they feel they've got an advantage they can push or are bloodlusting.

Ignore below if this is just a whitelist for a USMC Spec-ops Rt.

I have mixed feelings about a whitelisted squad, on one hand it could be great as you're working with fellow vets but on the other side I feel that it would just end up like any 'custom' squad on Cm and end with resentment and hatred to said squad and it's members.

I think instead of whitelisting, rounds played could be something interesting, well that's an idea atleast.

Also there was something similar suggested a while back by UM but was shotdown in flames by Apop, then again this was around the time when custom squads was still a thing i.e Omega, banter, Delta etc.

[Jeser]

Banter and Sanctum weren't custom whitelisted squads. It was just people, who were in whitelists in, for example, my head. People, who I can trust and who are worth risking my ass to save them.