Specialist Diversity Discussion

[tuzz]

Going to be interesting at lowpop. We are going to see 4 smartgunners, 4 specs, and 1 standard at round start.

[Supermichael777]

Got to say not a fan of forcing the sniper and gl on anyone. that pair of unfunny jokes (a kited out pulse rifle and the thing of the bottom of the pulse rifle) need some major work.

[tuzz]

I'm excited to try out the GL. I think it has some potential, just more situational than SADAR and smartgun were.
But now that I think about it, is there any advantage to using the GL over throwing the nades, other than ease of use, and perhaps inventory space? Because an advantage of throwing is the ability to cook a grenade.

[ZDashe]

Each spec weapon has its niche area, and probably only the most experienced players actually know how to play them all well. GLs are great in narrow quarters and area denial, and great way to kill queens right before they screech (soloed queens with them before, and boy the salt was real...). SADAR really best used to counter the faster Ravs or charging queens, Snipers for boilers, B18+riotshield for crushers (Just don't get hit on the first charge and body block and box the crusher in. You need terrain to be on your side too).

Of course it's easier said than done, and things can get very situational, but having been there and done that, I'd say they each have their own niche area, except B18 specs probably won't get much love still cause you're going high risk, low reward and jeopardizing your own life as a shield... B18s still need armored leggings or something instead of shitty boots. Still, I'm looking forward to more people getting forced to play each different role now so they can learn and git gud in general instead of relying on SADAR cheese or any fixed meta. (I wish Xenos had their own version of diversity and get rid of the crusher meta >.<)

[Renomaki]

recently after the update, they changed all the spec loadouts as well, one of them involving the merging of the GL and B18 if I am correct.

It'll be interesting to see how the next generation of spec works. What is the new Demoman class like? How do the snipers perform with their new goggles? Is the GL and B18 a good combo? We'll find out soon enough.

[Tusenmaug]

Separating out smartgunner is a welcome change. However I don't think it has gone far enough, personally. By both modern USMC standards and lore USCM standards as it is the marines are incredibly undergunned.

In lore, a USCM platoon is only 25 men. 16 grunts, 2 section leaders, 2 advisers, LT, 2 drivers/pilots and then 2 which it doesn't actually outright state but which I presume are vehicle crew. In this there are 4 smartguns, as it forms the LMG portion of the fireteams (Which the USCM are now calling squads). When I logged on recently, there were 95 players and I counted 46 marines under standard, medical, leader, specialist or smartgunner. Or double the lore number if you remove the known pilots/driver. Aka 8 smartgunners should be running around at that point.

Then again marines have low firepower in other areas as well. In lore the SADAR is a 1 shot launcher with the RPG being the reusable one. Each platoon of 25 men has access to: 8 incinerators, 8 sentry guns, 2 PIG's, 2 RPG's, 18 SADAR tubes, as well as a mortar. Not to mention enough sensor equipment to observe a 1km front. Changing to be more in lore and buffing the xenos appropriately so they don't get continually steamrolled after that would be the next step I think.

As for now I welcome the higher number of smartgunners. It hurts my soul a little less.

[Steelpoint]

If your SADAR user is bad the Marines are in a lot of trouble.

I'm honestly half tempted to suggest making Specialists a whitelist role, but then I remember we don't whitelist for competence, but for roleplay.

I'm not against weapon restrictions, but I think there should be up to two of each spec weapon available, one SADAR is leaving Crushers and Ravagers in a superior position.

[kooarbiter]

Wow they actually fuckin did it, though I think Gunner may need more to besides soec lite, maybe give them the c4 or a portable radio for the squad

[4thsurviver]

Separating out smartgunner is a welcome change. However I don't think it has gone far enough, personally. By both modern USMC standards and lore USCM standards as it is the marines are incredibly undergunned.

In lore, a USCM platoon is only 25 men. 16 grunts, 2 section leaders, 2 advisers, LT, 2 drivers/pilots and then 2 which it doesn't actually outright state but which I presume are vehicle crew. In this there are 4 smartguns, as it forms the LMG portion of the fireteams (Which the USCM are now calling squads). When I logged on recently, there were 95 players and I counted 46 marines under standard, medical, leader, specialist or smartgunner. Or double the lore number if you remove the known pilots/driver. Aka 8 smartgunners should be running around at that point.

Then again marines have low firepower in other areas as well. In lore the SADAR is a 1 shot launcher with the RPG being the reusable one. Each platoon of 25 men has access to: 8 incinerators, 8 sentry guns, 2 PIG's, 2 RPG's, 18 SADAR tubes, as well as a mortar. Not to mention enough sensor equipment to observe a 1km front. Changing to be more in lore and buffing the xenos appropriately so they don't get continually steamrolled after that would be the next step I think.

As for now I welcome the higher number of smartgunners. It hurts my soul a little less.

In the lore does the crew have to load up their own supplies like they do in Aliens? Its possible we are a unorthodox platoon given our large size and large amount of Command Staff and other support personnel. Not to mention that how poorly trained some of our marines can be.

I think the smartgunner role is awesome and I might try to play it one day. I won't feel as terrible if I mess it up as I would if I took one of 4 spec jobs. I think this change was a long time coming but instead of a smartgunner role I was expecting a designated marksman/ sniper role instead.

[Garrison]

If your SADAR user is bad the Marines are in a lot of trouble.

I'm honestly half tempted to suggest making Specialists a whitelist role, but then I remember we don't whitelist for competence, but for roleplay.

I'm not against weapon restrictions, but I think there should be up to two of each spec weapon available, one SADAR is leaving Crushers and Ravagers in a superior position.

That's what I thought about too. That way the less experienced specs have far less pressure to succeed in their chosen load out. Heck the only reason I don't go SADAR is because the one time I got to try it out as SL, I fucked it up SO horribly bad. Yet there's no real way I can improve my game without going into the role again and risk ruining the marines day.

[rapidboy9]

One sadar per round just doesn't make any sense. Why not vote or explain the reasons as to why other then using other items for the spec was the purpose. I get the point of balancing but everything is already balanced so heavily towards xenos. Don't understand taking away the only really fun spec weapon just to make it so specs use other weapons. Not like it matters cause we don't have a say in the matter at all. But, just know im not a fan of it. It was a bad move in all honesty. Or at the very least say hey this is gonna be a trial period, tell us what you think. Just doing it without a reason doesn't make sense. Chances are slim the marines ever won with four sadars. Now you make it one... Chances are even slimer. It really doesn't make sense at all, especially seeing as nine times out of ten both the SL and spec would end up dying mid round thus not letting the sadar be used at all. So, once again no sense to take it down to one. About whitelisting a role I think it would be a good idea to whitelist the roll personallly keeping all the options. The grenade launcher doesn't turn the tide regardless as to what one person thinks. Lol the armor gets sl's and other marines mad at the spec while the spec just twists his evil mustache and says hah i fucked you deal with it. Sniper is always gonna be the ff god of all. I do laugh when i get shot by a sniper cause it is my own fault, but ic of course i yell at the spec. Just wanting to know why limit the spec diverse rolls instead of adding to them. One sadar per round is fucking stupid.

[alekfenrir]

I think there's another big issue: With so few of each spec Type around, No one in the general player base is ever going to learn anything.

If someone wants to get good with any of the weapons and be less of a baldy, the chances of them getting it before were slim but now its even less. With only 1 type per round, and even then its a race for what you'll get, this ensure the Spec rolls are likely going to be Meh to okay for things instead of someone who knows how to use it well getting their hands on any of the weapon systems. Just simply because the chances of getting one system often enough to get good and practiced with it is not even tinier.

[Edgelord]

I don't play specialist a lot, but I really do not like the idea of having it locked to one of each weapon type. Ironically enough that hurts weapon diversity. Every round is now a similar or the same mix of specialist weapons whereas doubling up and having different strategies is now non-existent. Plus I hate the idea of pigeonholing players into a role they don't want, especially if that role is highly sought after and can take a while to get.

[rapidboy9]

I don't play specialist a lot, but I really do not like the idea of having it locked to one of each weapon type. Ironically enough that hurts weapon diversity. Every round is now a similar or the same mix of specialist weapons whereas doubling up and having different strategies is now non-existent. Plus I hate the idea of pigeonholing players into a role they don't want, especially if that role is highly sought after and can take a while to get.

Fucking amen! PLEASE CHANGE IT BACK, it's stupid.

[Monoo]

I don't play specialist a lot, but I really do not like the idea of having it locked to one of each weapon type. Ironically enough that hurts weapon diversity. Every round is now a similar or the same mix of specialist weapons whereas doubling up and having different strategies is now non-existent. Plus I hate the idea of pigeonholing players into a role they don't want, especially if that role is highly sought after and can take a while to get.

The Mann speaks quite a bit of sense... I haven't rolled spec since the update, so I wasn't quite aware of the problem, but I can see it now. Hopefully they're more generous with the limits in the future.

[Nick123q23]

I think it'd be better if there were two of each kit in the shared vendors. The aliens can deal with two SADARS if they really have to, and it'd make specialists less restricting to whatever's left for you to have.

[Swagile]

The riot shield is also no longer a free spec option; newbies are spending their hard earned spec coin and spec role that they only got after waiting week(s) to only get a riot shield.

Why is this even a option!?

[Terminutter]

The riot shield is also no longer a free spec option; newbies are spending their hard earned spec coin and spec role that they only got after waiting week(s) to only get a riot shield.

Why is this even a option!?

Clearly we need a "legion" choice, that gives the spec 5 machetes and 5 riot shields, to be distributed amongst the squad, who must then fight in testudo formation against the Arverni alien hordes.