Specialist Diversity Discussion

[Monoo]

Probably one of the most important problems with early-game marine play. Every other round or so I see three smartgunners and a sniper, and other nightmarishly ineffective mixes. The four specialist kits currently available offer fairly good coverage of different battlefield roles (despite needing significant balance changes), and if they were split up evenly every round between four competent people, things might go smoothly.

But that never, ever happens.

Now there's plenty of ways to fix this, but I'd like to hear what the marine community has to say about it. Some random ideas I'm willing to toss around:

Add a sensor/counter item to each spec vendor that tells the user what the others specs have chosen so far.

Remove the individual spec rooms from the squad prep sections. Add a fifth section to prep, exclusively for the four specialists to arm up in. One vendor with the four kits, and then four rooms with vendors that hold the other equipment.

Add more weapons/kits. With more potential options to choose from, there will be fewer duplicates. See Biolock's thread on new weapons in general discussion.

Have some other officer give out the spec kits, and give them the power to deny a spec their requested kit if there are two of that already being used.

[TopHatPenguin]

A counter over each spec item would be good for when specs are mute on comms everytime you ask what they are taking.

[Eenkogneeto]

I dont think forcing someone to take b18/sniper is the right solution
2 Smartgun 2 Sadar is viable
so is 4 Smartgun and 4 sadar
the problem is when you dont take sadars or too many people take gimmick options (Anything that isn't sadar, smartgun or GL)
+1 for a counter on what else has been taken though.

[Joe4444]

Iso is 4 Smartgun and 4 sadar

not possible friend
other than that I see 3 smart gunners most rounds. I tend to main smart gunner but now that most of the time specs pick without asking I'm forced to go SADAR or something.a way to mix it up? probably a few balance changes to the spec or a spec rework to make the other spec weapons appealing.

[Simo94]

gibe the sniper heat vision and no FF, make B18 unable to be hugged, im sure ONE MARINE not being able to be hugged is managable

[Renomaki]

I'd love a counter that informs you of what the other specs are using. I had too many rounds where I had no idea what weapon to bring, and since the other specs wouldn't tell, I had to just default to Sadar because I don't want to be THAT guy... Even though honestly, I'd like to use the smartgun...

Knowing if we have a Sadar or not would make being a spec a lot more fun.

[jaggaaff]

gibe the sniper heat vision and no FF, make B18 unable to be hugged, im sure ONE MARINE not being able to be hugged is managable

inb4 Boris One Man Army's the entire Hive.

[Jakers457]

The problem is meta really. I don't mean RP Meta, I mean gameplay meta. Happens with any game, in which there's a particular kit or set up that trumps the rest. A lot of the Spec gear has been deemed redundant so a lot of people don't vary it up, you'll see similar set ups no matter what because no one wants to be sub optimal.

[Renomaki]

The problem is meta really. I don't mean RP Meta, I mean gameplay meta. Happens with any game, in which there's a particular kit or set up that trumps the rest. A lot of the Spec gear has been deemed redundant so a lot of people don't vary it up, you'll see similar set ups no matter what because no one wants to be sub optimal.

That is sadly so true, and not just with spec weapons..

SMGs rarely get any love, marines mostly preferring to use the Assault Rifle because of how effective it is as a whole. It is a good gun, yes, but SMG has her benefits too (such as how plentiful ammo is for it).

[Toroic]

The problem is meta really. I don't mean RP Meta, I mean gameplay meta. Happens with any game, in which there's a particular kit or set up that trumps the rest. A lot of the Spec gear has been deemed redundant so a lot of people don't vary it up, you'll see similar set ups no matter what because no one wants to be sub optimal.

If this was true we wouldn't see so much b18 and sniper.

[TopHatPenguin]

The problem is meta really. I don't mean RP Meta, I mean gameplay meta. Happens with any game, in which there's a particular kit or set up that trumps the rest. A lot of the Spec gear has been deemed redundant so a lot of people don't vary it up, you'll see similar set ups no matter what because no one wants to be sub optimal.

If this was true we wouldn't see so much b18 and sniper.

It is prevalent to see when regular cm marines are on and antagonise a spec who took the 'wrong' gear, which then leads to a shitstorm, there's also the fact that 8/10 times if you take anything besides sadar your own squad will disown (Or the spec will end up with the casual "Oh great they took X this should be a great mission") you and cast you out into oblivion.

Honestly it's dumb how the meta affects everyone but hey-ho it's there and sadly it won't change.

Regarding the chaps who do end up taking what they want as a spec they receive a load of flak some leading to "I'm not supplying a smartgun when I can supply a sadar" Which is a shit move but because of the meta that a spec wielding a sadar is the rebirth of Jesus it means that they get first dibs and priority, then again this also links back to how some of the spec weapons feel lack luster to others.

[Scrat505]

The meta is in place for a good reason.
That is, the Spec meta isn't a GOOD thing to have, but it's there because of the generally lackluster choices.

Smartgun I personally see its benefits in laying down consistent support fire + the night vision optic, but its bullet is quite weak and you'll hardly land a shot on higher tiers due to deflection.

Grenade Launcher requires some excellent timing and once your grenade belts are empty, you can basically say goodbye to any consistent use since it's so hard to get more ammo.

B18 makes you feel like a badass up until two xenos team up to pounce you, smack on 2 huggers each, and drag you off.

Sniper suffers from requiring friendlies to provide light, and also risking blowing off a friendly's head if they get in the way, which happens enough that you're constantly worrying about it. Besides that, the rechamber rate and damage don't mix well together vs xenos: You can land a perfect shot that takes off half their health, but by the time you can get in a followup shot they've already took off.

Then there is the blessed SADAR. It benefits from being able to oneshot or crit most xenos, and leave those that survive wide open to followup shots from the spec or their teammates. In addition to this, resupplying it is easy. One crate contains a full load of rockets, and it's not that expensive either.


Overall if we want more Specialist weapon diversity, the other weapons need buffs or adjustments to be on level with the SADAR, as right now you can pick from an easily supplied boomstick or other gear that is
A: Hard to resupply
B: Not up to snuff when compared to the SADAR's killing ability.

[Monoo]

The meta is in place for a good reason.
That is, the Spec meta isn't a GOOD thing to have, but it's there because of the generally lackluster choices.

Smartgun I personally see its benefits in laying down consistent support fire + the night vision optic, but its bullet is quite weak and you'll hardly land a shot on higher tiers due to deflection.

Grenade Launcher requires some excellent timing and once your grenade belts are empty, you can basically say goodbye to any consistent use since it's so hard to get more ammo.

B18 makes you feel like a badass up until two xenos team up to pounce you, smack on 2 huggers each, and drag you off.

Sniper suffers from requiring friendlies to provide light, and also risking blowing off a friendly's head if they get in the way, which happens enough that you're constantly worrying about it. Besides that, the rechamber rate and damage don't mix well together vs xenos: You can land a perfect shot that takes off half their health, but by the time you can get in a followup shot they've already took off.

Then there is the blessed SADAR. It benefits from being able to oneshot or crit most xenos, and leave those that survive wide open to followup shots from the spec or their teammates. In addition to this, resupplying it is easy. One crate contains a full load of rockets, and it's not that expensive either.


Overall if we want more Specialist weapon diversity, the other weapons need buffs or adjustments to be on level with the SADAR, as right now you can pick from an easily supplied boomstick or other gear that is
A: Hard to resupply
B: Not up to snuff when compared to the SADAR's killing ability.

All very good points...

Regarding the option to buff the other weapons - I believe several buffs are already on the list of accepted suggestions. I know for certain apop plans to up the armor penetration for the smartgun, as well as removing sniper FF and giving grenade launchers unique ammo. Hopefully we can push for even more potential changes so that we being greater staff notice to the issue.

More kits would also help to break up the SADAR meta, IF and only if they provided specific and effective ways to counter higher tier xenos (as opposed to the SADAR's universal solution to everything: bigger booms).

[Hunk]

As specialist i use all the Kits because every kit has it's use.

People tend to mock me for getting sniper kit, but when i am near the riverside with marines covering me, i'm able to counter the boilers with my rifle and incendiary ammo, but on high pop rounds, Marksman or Recon kit is a no-no, because of the Friendly fire when using the scope.

Marksman and recon kits need a buff like the smartgun system. If you got it a good position with a bipod and scoped, you should not be able to FF.

[Bigchilly]

I dont see how spec choosing kits is a problem, your 4 of the +50 you can have your own choice on what you want.

Of course 4 sniper is not pleasing what so ever, but 4 smartgunners, or 4 b18s, or 4 SADARS is okay.

I dont see how this is really needed.

[InterroLouis]

Just one B18 is awful. If I saw 4 B18s, I might actually just go cryo myself instead of playing that round.

[Monoo]

Just one B18 is awful. If I saw 4 B18s, I might actually just go cryo myself instead of playing that round.

My sentiments exactly

[YungCuz]

My sentiments exactly

This hurt my soul really. Its just Armor thats probably non-existant now.
Don't really need to bash on it more.

[Eenkogneeto]

The issue with b18 is unlike every other spec item, its countered with : 3 huggers, or : aiming for the feet and then you wasted your coin, without the obvious waste of buying a cigar pack or a mk1

[Karmac]

>I will never stop going B18 or GL spec, will never git gud

[Heckenshutze]

"Go Sadar or Go Home"

- A SL to his spec just before shoving him into disposals

[Miranda]

Well B18, SADAR and Smartgun is the only options sadly.

B18 is JUST EHH lvl. As you are just an upgraded marine mostly and if you lost helmet ----> rip.(and yeah as with all specs you are a most priority target for aliums)
Also i can add, that with new mode for shotty, B18 is good for it just because you can suck all that FF from other marines when you try to get close and personal with aliums

SADAR is really GOOD IN ALL CASES, but you need to land damn rockets nicely and still need some marines to follow up.(aliums steal all SADARs they see)

Smartgun is GOOD EARLY and nice support gun. But with lvl'ed up aliums and T3s its damn watergun to them.(i really hope we get AP rounds or something to smarty)

GL and Sniper is just FUNNY TOYS for rp. (GL would've been good if not for rare ammo and underbarrel gls IN EVERY DAMN RIFLE!)

Well i personally pick smarty mostly, just because love it) It was good before but mostly RP tier now.

[Monoo]

Bumping this straight up from the grave, since it's relevant once again.

Smartgunner is now a dedicated position, and specialist gear is now pooled between each specialist.

This means there are four smartgunners, one SADAR, one B18, one sniper, and one GL, I think. How do you think this changes the balance?

As a guy that mostly plays smartgun, I'm loving the increased chance to land my favorite job. Not sure if there were any hidden nerfs to the smartgun or smartgunner equipment, though... hopefully not. It seems more lore-friendly as well.

DISCUSS.

[Swagile]

A big nerf, but a big buff as well.

Smartgunners means damage is done consistently now due to no FF and chargers doing extra damage.

The problem is that there can only be ONE SADAR now, and if they fuck up, you now have no counter to T3's like Crusher or good Ravagers. It also makes Queen much more bold as she only needs to screech one SADAR and now she can only die to clever mines and/or good UGL placement if she's smart.

The buff to sniper, however, makes it a viable tool now in the hands of a good sniper, as they can now see in the dark. This means it can see the Crusher running away while on fire from a flamer and snipe it while it tries to heal on weeds, which means its now dead. The same can be done with other hidden, but badly wounded xenos, which adds a new dynamic to marine / xeno gameplay of "weed healing is no longer enough".

[Renomaki]

I left the game for a week to take a break... Then I come back and learn that the chance of becoming a smartgunner has increased moderately.

You won't believe how happy this weenie is to hear that. Not only does it allow more people to get a chance to play with some of the good shit of the USCM, but also gives marines a bit of a buff in the form of providing more Smartgun support, meaning the armies of xenos will be a bit easier to hold at bay.

On the other hand, this also acts as a nerf since now you can only have 1 of each Specialist weapon. No more quad Sadars... But no more quad snipers either, so it is a mixed blessing if I do say so meself.

One thing is certain, though.. With the new sharing system of Specs, being a spec requires more brains than ever. Whatever weapon you happen to get, you better use it well and play smart, because you only get one of each weapon, and if you get stupid and lose it, you cripple your squad and the marines as a whole. The smartgun, on the other hand, isn't as crippling to lose since now they are quite plentiful planetside.

I look forward to trying to roll for Smartgunner when I get a chance, or maybe even a spec if I am feeling daring (although I think it'll be less popular now that it is a gamble to get the weapon you want)