Aliens recieve small slow down when damaged

[KingKire]

Summary:
Teir 1 and teir 2 aliens receive a (tiny to small) slow down when damaged for a split second (Heck, maybe even add in human targets, might be interesting feature)

Benefits:
Allows marines to knock out aliens that find themselves out of place.

Details:
With the new marines (tiny) slow down in effect (which is still being tested to see if its an actual nerf or a placebo effect), i want to put in place an old idea that was scrapped long ago back on the table. The idea is that teir 1 (possibly 2) aliens receive a slight slowdown everytime they receive damage.
Reasons:
-New slower marine speed means less of a focus on running after wounded xeno, and possibly more direction towards focusing accurate volumes of fire onto single targets to KO them.
-The speed debuff is very limited which means you need to keep hitting your target to keep them slowed or they will get away.
- This is a buff towards having squad cohesion, where focusing a target becomes important.
-This feature comes from the thought process that a majority of marine xeno kills comes from !Running! after wounded xenos to end their lives, which i think is kind of counter-intuitive to the thematics of colonial marines. (Marines gun down there foes one by one at a distance, not charge after them like hunters chasing foxes)
-Teir 1-2 aliens are slowed down due to small stature.

This is of course, a suggestion that might not even be needed depending on what the data says on the last patch, but... if marines do need buffs, i think this suggestion might be a nice place to look again at.

[forwardslashN]

This is not a bad idea.

[Crab_Spider]

Neutral. When I'm a runner/hunter, dodging bullets is what gives me the edge in chases. Knowing that one bullet is all it'll take to kill me is a life and death situation. Also, there's a problem with this. You can throw anything at a xeno and then you'll have an easy kill (turns out being hit by items on a table after flipping them will put you at half health)

[Joe4444]

Neutral. When I'm a runner/hunter, dodging bullets is what gives me the edge in chases. Knowing that one bullet is all it'll take to kill me is a life and death situation. Also, there's a problem with this. You can throw anything at a xeno and then you'll have an easy kill (turns out being hit by items on a table after flipping them will put you at half health)

first bit,it SHOULD be a life and death situation if you get hit by a bullet,you're not exactly a crusher with bulletproof armor.The second point is probably a bug and you should report it.

[Crab_Spider]

first bit,it SHOULD be a life and death situation if you get hit by a bullet,you're not exactly a crusher with bulletproof armor.The second point is probably a bug and you should report it.

Going to take that back and say this; no. Marines have the advantage in range, and with that nerf to speed for Marines, it might as well stay for Marines. I already see where this is going; Marines will keep on ramboing because they are aware of how beneficial this is once it's implemented. Not so long ago, shotguns with buckshot were game breakers, now a shotgun itself is a liability. Xeno players often are on the short end of the stick for what they're limited to, when you get put to 1/8 of your health from one rifle bullet, AS A HUNTER! A sentry bullet put you to half of your health. The Marine speed nerf has done a lot to keep the Marines from ramboing, and something like this will give the rambos a reason to go back to those unorthodox methods. Yes, I read the bit about concentrated fire, and that's why I mentioned the damage scaling. In a game where speed is imperative, this is something that will cripple xenos (who have VERY limited counter measures and abilities to close the gap if they're feeling lucky.

[Boltersam]

I like this.

If a Xenos is caught out and is hit multiple times, they should not be able to run away at top speeds while nearly in crit, heal, and just run back out. Marines have a very hard time actually killing Xenos because of this, but Xenos should be punished for being nearly killed while taking out a Marine, instead of just sprinting away and doing it again.

+1.

[Szunti]

This is fine for the sentinel line and carrier. But it doesn't work well with pouncing. Pouncing a marine who is not alone is a guaranteed hit, so you wouldn't just get stunned, lose a good chunk of your health but also slowed down.

[nerocavalier]

The thing is that you generally should not be pouncing on top of marines if you can get hit, it's better to pounce to throw huggers at them, slash, or just run up to throw huggers and pounce away. Pouncing on someone as a hunter can already get you killed, this is just the nail in the coffin. Runners on the other hand have a higher chance of survival from pouncing on people since at best they'll get hit once before their victim stands up and tanks the shots for them.

Anyway, +1.

[Crab_Spider]

Can we get a full list of pros this will teach xenos? The people +1'ing this are predominantly Marine players, and it'd help to get some clarity over what this teaches xenos other than "well you should stick to your group".


Here's the layout for it : Marines have the advantage in range, so a small nerf in speed would make some type of sense if you're not the kind of person who's always packing a shotgun with buckshot. Being slowed down like this might as well apply to Marines too, who often have an actual chance to run away and treat their wounds, and this can be done, anywhere at any time without much of a restriction. Xenos are a much different story; they are limited in what they can do and have no other way to get out of a bad situation other than fleeing. You know what being hit with a rifle bullet teaches me? The same for you. You're dying and you need to act, which isn't a problem for you since you can just return fire, but when you're limited in range, what the hell are you supposed to do?

[nerocavalier]

Alright, I'll bite.

It'll encourage runners and hunters to actually use pack tactics to cover for each other instead of their solo rambo hunting shenanigans. Instead of having one runner pounce, drop their huggers and run off with any repercussions, it'll have that one runner more wary of running it by itself. Xenos are already devastating when they work together and the runner caste is no exception. Ideally, this would lead to more runners and hunters working together when the Queen tells them to instead of ignoring her.

As for sentinels and spitters, more emphasis will be placed on what they already do now, i.e hide in the dark and acid the heck out of marines. Most spitters already do this proficiently so the nerf wouldn't affect them as much. Sentinels, on the other hand, shouldn't be fighting anyway since their primary role is to watch after the hosts.

I'll be honest, drones shouldn't get shot anyway. If they're on the frontlines then they should either be emitting pheromones and stick behind the front or they're risking their lives to build defenses in which case they can promptly hide behind a wall and avoid getting hit any further. Alternatively, this may lead to the higher tiers trying to cover for them since they are somewhat more in danger. This slowdown should not affect Hive Lords, seeing that them being caught will already kill them.

tl;dr: This would do to xenos what the speed nerf did to marines i.e make them stick together and teamwork it out.

[Shyguychizzy]

+1 this actually sounds like a good idea...would love to see this implemented. I mean thing is xenos will just do that pounce away tactic still frustrating when in deep crit.

[KingKire]

On the alternative side, there was an idea suggested in the general forums that aliens might be permanently slowed down if they get past 50-75% HP, which makes another strong point. Would people like to see full HP aliens (possibly humans) be stuttered by hit markers even at full HP? Or would free movement up to >50% HP and then receiving a moderate slowdown be preferable.

Op 1: hit slowdown.
- Bullets become easier to hit once the first one connects for a small period of time.
- Aliens have a chance to still escape at full speed even at low HP if they avoid the bullets for a small fraction of time, but it could lead to a negative feedback loop if they happen to be hit by mutiple people, with the slowdown being constantly reapplied, which could be problematic for high HP targets caught out.
- Risky escapes still possible, marines with poor aim cant lock down aliens. Healthy aliens can be focused out of a fight if against large squads.
- could be applied to affect humans as well, both by human and xeno enemies.
- Marines following up on the attack are still not able to pin down wounded xenos any more then healthy xenos.
-Even marines with small caliber arms can contribute to the fight at a point.

-Also, just noticed this, but this change would make flamers pretty decent due to the constant ticks of damage, so Pretty neato-burrito random buff.

Op 2: Low HP slowdown
- Healthy aliens dont have to worry about being slowed down, shrugging bullets and darting in and out of fights, unless they go into moderate/critical HP.
- Any alien in moderate/critical HP is almost garrenteed dead due to the heavy slowdown received.
- Even if aliens are pulled out of a fight to recover, they are still slowed down until they get past moderate HP, which means marines can push the initiative to kill alien stragglers.
- Effect already applies to marines when in moderate health.

There is also a point in that this could possibly lead to marines ramboing again, which is something that does need to be thought out on:
Op 1: Slowdown
- A single marine can indeed try to slowdown an alien with multiple shots. Depending on how much and how long the slow is, the goal should be that the alien is slowed enough to get hit a few more times, but is still fast enough to escape if its just 1 marine or so.

Op 2: Low HP
- An alien is definitly able to escape rambo marines so long as he has the HP to. This might indeed bring back rambo marines with super charged shotguns trying to kill off xenos, but at that point, the marine is still slow to advance, with a shortrange shotgun. One should try to play around the enemies strengths instead of into them.

[Szunti]

Started as a small slowdown and we reached a soft crit at 50% health. Come on, marine players.

[KingKire]

Started as a small slowdown and we reached a soft crit at 50% health. Come on, marine players.

so whats your opinion? im just passing along possible ideas. As for "marine player', i dont really favor sides, only that the game is better overall at the final step. Nerfs and buffs when needed, as needed, to whoever needs it.

[Surrealistik]

+1 Sounds good to me. Personally I like the idea of aliens slowing down the more damaged they become beyond a 50% threshold; they are not impervious to pain at all; perhaps Frenzy or Guard pheromones could make them more resistant to pain actuated slowdowns, but they shouldn't be immune to pain.

[Lucius Jones]

-1, if you get shot or if a animal gets injured it speed UP, it doesn't 'slow down' instantly, it has a rush of adrenaline and gets the fuck out. If you want to implement it, have a small speedup when shot then maybe 3/4 ticks later a larger slowdown with a message 'your muscles ache'

[JackStorm]

-1, if you get shot or if a animal gets injured it speed UP, it doesn't 'slow down' instantly, it has a rush of adrenaline and gets the fuck out. If you want to implement it, have a small speedup when shot then maybe 3/4 ticks later a larger slowdown with a message 'your muscles ache'

Then give a marine that rush of adrenaline, why not? Humans are an animal too. A single slash of ancient hunter won't kill you because you are slowed as fuck.

BTW, +1. Great idea. Also, make runners and hunters are not able to pounce your ass if they have got damage before.

[Crab_Spider]

Then give a marine that rush of adrenaline, why not? Humans are an animal too. A single slash of ancient hunter won't kill you because you are slowed as fuck.

BTW, +1. Great idea. Also, make runners and hunters are not able to pounce your ass if they have got damage before.

That logic is flawed... very, very flawed. And this can be abused for Marines, who will punch themselves in the chest to get a boost in speed. Humans are animals, but when we get hurt, we often try to run or fight back, adrenaline kicks in when you can't fly or fight, when you know you're in danger and are under too much stress, that's when it kicks in, and the only way you can escape that situation is by limiting your electric signalling to the nerves and increasing bloodflow to the heart. If this were to be implemented, then it'd need to occur when the Marine is in red/pain crit. A single bullet shouldn't make you run like an ostrich all of a sudden.