Alien pulling mechanics

[Wubs4Scrubs]

Summary: A small runner should not be able to drag away a 2 ton queen 3 times the height of a marine. Pulling of friendly aliens should balanced to the aliens comparative size. Like a hunter could pull a hunter, but not a crusher.

Benefits: Marines have an extremely hard time killing T3 or T2 aliens as it is, at least once every round (usually more) a critted queen or crusher will be pulled to safety by the smallest alien unit. Fixing this would make sense gameplay wise as it would make large aliens more cautious and vulnerable while also improving immersion as when I see 4 tile large queen being moved by a dog it takes me out instantly.

Details: T1 aliens can only haul T1 aliens. T2 can haul T2 and T1. T3 can haul anything.

[Crab_Spider]

No. Just no. -1

[Snypehunter007]

Hmmm, interesting . . .

I would like to see what other's responses to this is though first.

Neutral

[Crab_Spider]

Hmmm, interesting . . .

I would like to see what other's responses to this is though first.

Neutral

Really Snype? Then a ton of logged T3s will be in the same place they logged out from, no one can really save anyone, and getting xeno corpses will be pointless for Marines since they're literally trying to carry a 320 Ib red dog insectoid back to the shuttles

[Joe4444]

hmmm....actually, i'm gonna +1 this because marines should be rewarded for downing a T3.

[NescauComToddy]

This could be OP as HELL. The main purpose for the Xenos Is to work together, this would conflict with the already made In-system, damaging It In a proper amount. Marines should be rewarded by throwing a 'nade' and killing It soon after, the aliens should be rewarded after saving a tier 3, a tier 3 alive. Please, do not modify the pulling action, there Is absolutely no reason for a change unless you are a vicious marine player.


-1

[Harakoni warhawk]

+1 from me, there's nothing like downing a Queen/Empress only for a Drone a fraction of its size and weight pulling it away.
If it's instead a speed penalty for dragging a much larger Alien, it might not be so much of a nerf for Xenos.
TL;DR, Small Xenos can drag much larger Aliens but suffer a speed penalty when doing so.

[NescauComToddy]

Might not be a nerf? Xenos sometimes depends On this to win, If you are a Xenomorph/Marine player, you know that.

This nerf will basically mean that, If a queen Is down, she Is dead. If a crusher Is down, he Is dead. If a ravager Is down, he will be dead too. Same with every Tier 3 that exist within the game. Crit shouldn't exist for them If something like this Is implemented, otherwise, there won't be an exact balance to the game. About the speed nerf, that Isn't necessary, but acceptable to tier 1's and 2's.

[Swagile]

Marines are down, they are dead as well.

I don't see the problem if a speed penalty is added.

Should give a even bigger speed penalty to marines for bringing back T3's but researcher can make a "xeno bag" which is just a re-skinned body bag that can carry xeno corpses that negates this penalty.

[Toroic]

Marines are down, they are dead as well.

I don't see the problem if a speed penalty is added.

Should give a even bigger speed penalty to marines for bringing back T3's but researcher can make a "xeno bag" which is just a re-skinned body bag that can carry xeno corpses that negates this penalty.

Not even remotely true that if marines are down they're dead, especially with defib's being buffed.

As far as the idea there are more interesting ways to balance xenos, so -1 from me.

[SchofieldMK2]

-1. NO!! NO! NO No no. . .

[Swagile]

Not even remotely true that if marines are down they're dead, especially with defib's being buffed.

As far as the idea there are more interesting ways to balance xenos, so -1 from me.

And?

Xenos can auto heal from weeds and from a competent recovery pheromone caste holder in a minute, tops.

Marines have to go through getting patched up from a medic that might not always be there, they are slowed down from damage, they can get fractured / broken bones, ruptured lungs, and can go into pain crit.

None of the above affects xenos in the slightest as you don't even NEED pheromones to heal up; just weeds, but pheremones definitely speed it up much faster.

Xenos getting a minor debuff for pulling xenos who shouldn't have overextended anyway isn't that big of a deal.

[NescauComToddy]

And?

Xenos can auto heal from weeds and a competent recovery pheromone caste holder in a minute, tops.

Marines have to go through getting patched up from a medic that might not always be there; they are slowed down from damage, they can get fractured / broken bones, ruptured lungs, and can go into pain crit.

None of the above affects Xenos in the slightest as you don't even NEED pheromones to heal up; just weeds, but pheromones speed it up much faster.

Xenos getting a minor debuff for pulling Xenos who shouldn't have overextended anyway isn't that big of a deal.

Marines=60
Marines that go down = Pulled and healed, even If It takes more time, they still alive. Still, they will rage because they want to Rambo the shit out of Xenos. Sends a fuck to the system of cooperation and die.

Xenos = Get rushed, get down, die. Get pulled back to weeds because of the association system we have with Xenos and live.
Xenos=20

Xenos can auto-heal and? What, they quickly can go down, easier than Marines can. Yourself said that In the tackle-tackle post. Marines have a greater number and also, can resist more If they don't rush. Xenos only way to win Is to cooperate If Marines players can't accept or react to It In the right way and suggest something to correct they mistakes, you are Immature and Incompetent.

The only thing that could be agreed Is a little debuff In the speed, otherwise, cry elsewhere. This Is my legitimate point of view.

[Dirty Old Harry]

I'm all for this as long as we can compromise here, i say that aliens get a huge speed penalty when trying to drag an alien that is much bigger than their own. Maybe make it so that Marines have to like use two hands to drag a T3 or something. Take my +1 anyways.

[Harakoni warhawk]

I'm all for this as long as we can compromise here, i say that aliens get a huge speed penalty when trying to drag an alien that is much bigger than their own. Maybe make it so that Marines have to like use two hands to drag a T3 or something. Take my +1 anyways.

Have it so Marines need to be in a chain gang to pull a T3 like a Praetorian.
Then you can have a SL go 'Mush' to get them moving, that would be bloody hilarious.

[Dirty Old Harry]

Yeah, that way it's appealing to both xeno fuckerds and Memerines. Win Win for both sides!

[Swagile]

Marines=60
Marines that go down = Pulled and healed, even If It takes more time, they still alive. Still, they will rage because they want to Rambo the shit out of Xenos. Sends a fuck to the system of cooperation and die.

Xenos = Get rushed, get down, die. Get pulled back to weeds because of the association system we have with Xenos and live.
Xenos=20

Xenos can auto-heal and? What, they quickly can go down, easier than Marines can. Yourself said that In the tackle-tackle post. Marines have a greater number and also, can resist more If they don't rush. Xenos only way to win Is to cooperate If Marines players can't accept or react to It In the right way and suggest something to correct they mistakes, you are Immature and Incompetent.

The only thing that could be agreed Is a little debuff In the speed, otherwise, cry elsewhere. This Is my legitimate point of view.

You just proved my point in the first one. Marines get down and get pulled back to get healed, and it takes a longer time for them to get healed. Plus effects on their health (cut off arms / leggs, broken bones, etc.) last a LOT longer and are often permanent without a good medical staff.

Xenos only have to go on weed and / or get pheremoned and they are good to go for another attack run. And if they get put into crit, they can easily be pulled back into weeds by a smaller T1, who is still much faster than most marines are unless said marine is in full health (which is rare during heavy combat), so a slight debuff would be nice.

And it doesn't matter how many marines there are, ive solo'd entire marine pushes by myself as a carrier and as a hunter by picking them off and dealing permanent damage. Xenos don't need to work together to win, they just have to take advantage of hit and run tactics. The ONLY times this is not true is during FOB / Sulaco assaults.

[Sneakyr]

I think that a nerf to xeno healing needs to be done, but not this way. Possibly heavily extending the time it takes to get out of crit and slightly increase the general heal time so we don't have the memexeno rush out, kill a marine, get blasted, then come back a short time later. Neutral leaning towards -1.

[Wubs4Scrubs]

Marines=60
Marines that go down = Pulled and healed, even If It takes more time, they still alive. Still, they will rage because they want to Rambo the shit out of Xenos. Sends a fuck to the system of cooperation and die.

Xenos = Get rushed, get down, die. Get pulled back to weeds because of the association system we have with Xenos and live.
Xenos=20

Xenos can auto-heal and? What, they quickly can go down, easier than Marines can. Yourself said that In the tackle-tackle post. Marines have a greater number and also, can resist more If they don't rush. Xenos only way to win Is to cooperate If Marines players can't accept or react to It In the right way and suggest something to correct they mistakes, you are Immature and Incompetent.

The only thing that could be agreed Is a little debuff In the speed, otherwise, cry elsewhere. This Is my legitimate point of view.

Aliens go down easier than marines? I couldn't think of something less accurate outside of a certain politician's twitter account. I swear most of the time I spend in combat as a marine I'm on the ground. An alien can one-hit perma tackle a marine easily, they have generously recharging AOEs which take out entire squads, and if you're talking about marines going down slower when taking damage you must not do battle with T2 or T3 aliens often because they will one hit you into crit consistently. Saying marines go down into crit slower isn't a fair comparison either because once a marine goes down he's more than likely dead. In mid-end game combat if you get AOE stunned, pounced, charged, or end up on the ground in any of the number of ways you can an alien will close the gap and hit you in the head once and you're either in crit or decapitated on the spot. The entire thought process behind my post is that going down for a T2 or T3 alien is fairly inconsequential because as long as you have small aliens around you can easily be dragged to safety before the marines can finish you. I just want something to be done to balance downing where it isn't certain death for the marine while alien's can just shake it off and memeheal in like 15 seconds.

[Nubs]

-1. it is a good idea on paper, but in actuality, it is normally the lower or faster castes such as runners or hunters saving t3's, because the other t3's are busy or not suited to the role (praes or boilers rushing out to save another t3 would almost certainly lead to both dying due to their slowness.) Perhaps as another poster said, the drag speed could be reduced, but i would not limit it so drastically as in the op.

[Toroic]

I'm all for this as long as we can compromise here, i say that aliens get a huge speed penalty when trying to drag an alien that is much bigger than their own. Maybe make it so that Marines have to like use two hands to drag a T3 or something. Take my +1 anyways.

Xenos already pull very slowly. Been like this for a long time.

[NescauComToddy]

Aliens go down easier than marines? I couldn't think of something less accurate outside of a certain politician's Twitter account. I swear most of the time I spend in combat as a Marine I'm on the ground. An alien can one-hit prima tackle a marine easily, they have generously recharging AOEs which take out entire squads, and if you're talking about Marines going down slower when taking damage, you must not do battle with T2 or T3 aliens often because they will have one hit you into crit consistently. Saying Marines go down into crit slower isn't a fair comparison either because once a Marine goes down, he's more than likely dead. In mid-end game combat if you get AOE stunned, pounced, charged, or end up on the ground in any of the numbers of ways you can an alien will close the gap and hit you in the head once and you're either in the crit or decapitated on the spot. The entire thought process behind my post is that going down for a T2 or T3 alien is relatively inconsequential because as long as you have small aliens around you can easily be dragged to safety before the marines can finish you. I just want something to be done to balance Downing where it isn't certain death for the marine while alien's can just shake it off and meme heals in like 15 seconds.

It may sound strange, But yes, they go down easier. The problem Is they attacks, that's something you can't deny. We aren't talking about talking tackles, just a small reminder. They aren't a big problem If you are together.

The small aliens surrounding tier 3's are propositional son, Do you think the hive would watch the queen die? This Is part of the teamwork aliens make, If one go down, they will put they life at risk to save her sister or mother. Stop trying to make things easier for marines, It won't work well.

Aliens die faster to an M4 than marines die for It, That's I can assure you, A small example that you could relate would be a mine or nade'. I play as crusher/Ravager, I Know about the AOEs but just a reminder, we aren't talking about AOEs, It could relate It from our post, still, think about each time some AOE destroys the marines forces, In most of them It will be early or end round, where marines are In places they shouldn't be. Usually, the shit will just happen for those who walk alone or push the caves like a retarded until he get's pounded by a kamikaze runner and cry salt. Marines that go down and are simply dead are the ones who made a single mistake mentioned above, otherwise, he goes up to the Sully to be treated. Last night I got two charges and some hits from a ravager, I Critted. Did I start to claim a nerf because Of It? No. Came back to the Sully and went down 20 minutes after the incident, I was alone and punished from my error.

About the Marines heal thing, You aren't a snowflake In CM, you are a Marine, a true human being. If you get damaged by Xenos, It sucks. Still, you aren't even supposed to survive It. Why do you think we have 60 marines? Because you aren't Important to the game, just a small little thing of salt In a huge ocean. The devs are gentleman's and decided that It would ruin the Marines fun, so, they were cool guys and Implemented defibs and cloning[Before], giving them a chance to heal On the field and etc.

For a related reason, the Xenos need the meme-heal because they are just 20, they need to counter 60 marines at the same time without dooming themselves. Otherwise, marines would pretty much destroy the ayys. For the same reason, they made marines weaker to give time for them and also, It's the same reason why some aliens are stronger that they were supposed to be. Just do not include tier 3's In this and you might understand.

[NescauComToddy]

You just proved my point in the first one. Marines get down and get pulled back to get healed, and it takes a longer time for them to get healed. Plus effects on their health (cut off arms / leggs, broken bones, etc.) last a LOT longer and are often permanent without a good medical staff.

Xenos only have to go on weed and/or get pheromones and they are good to go for another attack run. And if they get put into crit, they can easily be pulled back into weeds by a smaller T1, who is still much faster than most marines are unless said marine is in full health (which is rare during heavy combat), so a slight debuff would be nice.

And it doesn't matter how many marines there are, ive solo'd entire marine pushes by myself as a carrier and as a hunter by picking them off and dealing permanent damage. Xenos don't need to work together to win, they just have to take advantage of hit and run tactics. The ONLY times this is not true is during FOB / Sulaco assaults.

1: You aren't a snowflake, we are lucky the ayys do not make permanent damage as they would In the Immersive mode. We are also lucky that our doctors somehow can fix brain damage and broken bones In 10 minutes. What I have said was with the purpose to mean you aren't special indirectly, looks like you think I was saying something affirmative, I wasn't.

2:As you said In my old post, If an alien pops his head out from the darkness, It would be GG and he would die In a few bullets. Here, you are fighting against your old idea, saying that the meme-heals are OP, the same thing will be related to the pulling mechanic.

3:If they die so easily as you once said, why shouldn't they have an Option to not die by pulling?

Have you soloed a hole marine push? Good job. You said you don't need teamwork eh? Still, you and the hunter did make a great job...[You were In the offensive, where teamwork means screech, Boiler gas and etc. Still, you just said you did a small little thing of teamwork In offensive without being something to notice.

Other than that, they need to defend themselves, that's where pulling Is important, Not In the offensive situations where teamwork Is based on communication and coordination.

[Swagile]

1: You aren't a snowflake, we are lucky the ayys do not make permanent damage as they would In the Immersive mode. We are also lucky that our doctors somehow can fix brain damage and broken bones In 10 minutes. What I have said was with the purpose to mean you aren't special indirectly, looks like you think I was saying something affirmative, I wasn't.

2:As you said In my old post, If an alien pops his head out from the darkness, It would be GG and he would die In a few bullets. Here, you are fighting against your old idea, saying that the meme-heals are OP, the same thing will be related to the pulling mechanic.

3:If they die so easily as you once said, why shouldn't they have an Option to not die by pulling?

Have you soloed a hole marine push? Good job. You said you don't need teamwork eh? Still, you and the hunter did make a great job...[You were In the offensive, where teamwork means screech, Boiler gas and etc. Still, you just said you did a small little thing of teamwork In offensive without being something to notice.

Other than that, they need to defend themselves, that's where pulling Is important, Not In the offensive situations where teamwork Is based on communication and coordination.

Never said I was a snowflake, and gameplay always trumps realism or else aliens would be winning 99% of the time as ive been told before in OOC many times that the lore of Aliens is MUCH more dangerous than the aliens we face ingame (example: apesuit commandos would be owned by one hunter, but ingame the hunter would be decimated by a ape suit command).

I never fought against my old idea of aliens popping out, im saying that aliens should be punished for overextending instead of being quickly pulled out by their fast T1's. The main problem is xeno heals are way too fast, especially when you have drones / carriers / queen that isn't dumb and knows to use recovery. Say what you want about "but there are only 20 of them!", xenos have been made to be powerful and fast enough to take on multiple marines by themselves and still come out victorious, even without weed heals.

Weed heals, however, make it so much easier. Hence it stands that currently its EXTREMELY easy to come back from full critical to full health in one minute, while the same cannot be said by marines (especially since most of the time they have to go all the way up to the Sulaco to get fixed up if their wound can't be splinted / ran out of splints / splint breaks off).

The whole issue surrounds weed heals being so potent while not providing much counter play against this except SALT-AR (which only 4 people out of all the marines can get but usually choose something else), and maybe flame thrower.

[Toroic]

Never said I was a snowflake, and gameplay always trumps realism or else aliens would be winning 99% of the time as ive been told before in OOC many times that the lore of Aliens is MUCH more dangerous than the aliens we face ingame (example: apesuit commandos would be owned by one hunter, but ingame the hunter would be decimated by a ape suit command).

I never fought against my old idea of aliens popping out, im saying that aliens should be punished for overextending instead of being quickly pulled out by their fast T1's. The main problem is xeno heals are way too fast, especially when you have drones / carriers / queen that isn't dumb and knows to use recovery. Say what you want about "but there are only 20 of them!", xenos have been made to be powerful and fast enough to take on multiple marines by themselves and still come out victorious, even without weed heals.

Weed heals, however, make it so much easier. Hence it stands that currently its EXTREMELY easy to come back from full critical to full health in one minute, while the same cannot be said by marines (especially since most of the time they have to go all the way up to the Sulaco to get fixed up if their wound can't be splinted / ran out of splints / splint breaks off).

The whole issue surrounds weed heals being so potent while not providing much counter play against this except SALT-AR (which only 4 people out of all the marines can get but usually choose something else), and maybe flame thrower.

All aliens pull at the same slow rate. It's not influenced by movespeed. ALso, literally anyone can remove weeds with melee, flamers, and explosives. The biggest reason it's generally a risk to fight off weeds is not the healing (which is pretty trivial during the 8ish second combats) but because of the movement speed differential. Xenos run slower off weeds, marines are slower on them.