Remove pheronomes from drone and carrier

[Szunti]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Drones and carriers lose pheromones. Queen, praetorians, hivelords keep them.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
This makes another reason to have praetorians and hivelords.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Carrier is op anyway with the hugger combat update, at least it won't have the built-in speed boost. Imo carrier is at the spot where crushers were, good for almost everything. They are good for setting up assaults with weeding, they can fight with the huggers and also adapt with their pheromones. Except for the Queen, laying eggs they barely need to rely on any other xeno. I don't think universal castes are good thing in a team oriented game. I would even support if they lose weeding.

Drones got more important with being the only T1 able to infect, so I think they can afford losing the ability. This is a nerf to xenos, but if pheromones capable T1 can be spammed, this suggestion is pointless.

[Crab_Spider]

Eh.... For carriers, yes. For drones... er.... No.

Although I like the idea, having support even if it's at a low level is just a god send. I don't like losing because my teammates didn't listen, but I don't like winning because my enemies had a handicap.

[Symbiosis]

-1. Need players to want to play Drone.

Give the new patch time to develop before even suggesting nerfs to Carrier. IMHO.

[Casany]

Give the new patch time to develop before even suggesting nerfs to Carrier. IMHO.

I'm gonna disagree. The carrier is WAY to overpowered as of now, and it isn't even a T3. It is OBJECTIVELY better then almost all T3s, and it removed the point of going hivelord. Why go hivelord when as a Carrier you can destroy an entire marine squad in 15 seconds.

Ima +1 the carrier part but drones should keep it

[Sarah_U.]

I'll +1 for carrier.
I'll -1 for drone.

Drones are amazing, but their plasma decay rather quickly when you consider they need to spam resin and easely get hurt on the frontline.

[TheMaskedMan2]

Carrier remove pheremones? +1
Drone remove pheremones? -1

Pheremones are literally one of the pillars of the drones purpose as a support caste.

EDIT: Upon playing more I think I rescind any of my +1's, I don't think carriers are OP in their current state to be honest. Annoying, sure. Overpowered? Nah.

-1

[ZDashe]

-1 Carriers are mainly a support caste now, and if we remove pheromones, carriers would only serve to do 2 things - lay weeds, and transport huggers/toss them, with the former being poor use of its plasma due to it's slow regen speed, and the latter becoming it's main role. So if a carrier runs out of huggers, they can basically only sit on weeds to regen plasma slowly until planting their next weed sac, and nothing else. The hugger toss range and hugger stun on toss has already pretty much balanced out the hugger AI and helmet bypass, not to mention they can't hold huggers in their hands to infect people. Removing pheromones might be trying too hard to over-compensate for the "carriers OP" meta.

I'll only +1 if carriers get more plasma regen if we decide to remove pheromones, so they can spread weeds better.

[TheMaskedMan2]

-1 Carriers are mainly a support caste now, and if we remove pheromones, carriers would only serve to do 2 things - lay weeds, and transport huggers/toss them, with the former being poor use of its plasma due to it's slow regen speed, and the latter becoming it's main role. So if a carrier runs out of huggers, they can basically only sit on weeds to regen plasma slowly until planting their next weed sac, and nothing else. The hugger toss range and hugger stun on toss has already pretty much balanced out the hugger AI and helmet bypass, not to mention they can't hold huggers in their hands to infect people. Removing pheromones might be trying too hard to over-compensate for the "carriers OP" meta.



I'll only +1 if carriers get more plasma regen if we decide to remove pheromones, so they can spread weeds better.

Actually yeah, this occured to me but I forgot to mention it, give carriers more plasma regen (or cap) in exchange so they can at least continue to be weed bringers.

[Nick123q23]

Pheromones allow drones to serve as medics and builders both. Removing it from them would make drones fairly uselsss

Carriers on the otherhand, with the new update, don't really need pheromones anymore

[Butterrobber202]

-1 Why would you remove this from Drones? Just asking.

But eh, Carriers, they don't use it much anyways.

[Crab_Spider]

-1 Why would you remove this from Drones? Just asking.

But eh, Carriers, they don't use it much anyways.

Carriers would honestly lose pheromones when they evolve in the first place; you either use it or you lose it. Hivelords on the other hand... eh... they'd need acid

[Szunti]

-1 Why would you remove this from Drones? Just asking.

But eh, Carriers, they don't use it much anyways.

I want a good reason to have hivelords and praetorians. And I'm not creative enough to make up a new ability. So removing an existing one from other casts remained.

[Toroic]

I'm gonna disagree. The carrier is WAY to overpowered as of now, and it isn't even a T3. It is OBJECTIVELY better then almost all T3s, and it removed the point of going hivelord. Why go hivelord when as a Carrier you can destroy an entire marine squad in 15 seconds.

Ima +1 the carrier part but drones should keep it

Carrier is T3. It takes up a T3 slot.

[Crab_Spider]

Carrier is T3. It takes up a T3 slot.

Carriers are T2s, they have the sounds of T2s, and are stunned by shotgun ammo

[Toroic]

Carriers are T2s, they have the sounds of T2s, and are stunned by shotgun ammo

They take up a T3 slot, which is the most important aspect when evaluating their balance.

None of the other ways to define T3 matters because

1) Xenos don't listen to anyone but the queen
2) Tier limits are the primary limitation on xeno team's power

[MrJJJ]

They take up a T3 slot, which is the most important aspect when evaluating their balance.

None of the other ways to define T3 matters because

1) Xenos don't listen to anyone but the queen
2) Tier limits are the primary limitation on xeno team's power

No they don't, it even says you can't become a T2 if you try to be a carrier, and even the rules say

Tier 2: Hunter, Carrier, Spitter

If drones could become carriers as fast as sentinels and runners, i would guarantee you it would be like a spam of hunters or spitters (and alot of carriers asking for eggs)

[caleeb101]

-1 Carriers are mainly a support caste now, and if we remove pheromones, carriers would only serve to do 2 things - lay weeds, and transport huggers/toss them, with the former being poor use of its plasma due to it's slow regen speed, and the latter becoming it's main role. So if a carrier runs out of huggers, they can basically only sit on weeds to regen plasma slowly until planting their next weed sac, and nothing else. The hugger toss range and hugger stun on toss has already pretty much balanced out the hugger AI and helmet bypass, not to mention they can't hold huggers in their hands to infect people. Removing pheromones might be trying too hard to over-compensate for the "carriers OP" meta.

I'll only +1 if carriers get more plasma regen if we decide to remove pheromones, so they can spread weeds better.

Their main use is already throwing huggers. Nobody cares about their pheromones especially when you have drones and other castes to do that for you. Right now it's just an extra bonus they have that they don't need. It barely takes any diversity from them since no other class can throw huggers and many other class can't even pick huggers up. Or plant weeds. I don't see anyone going carrier just because they can use pheromones when they can already use them as a drone.. Even if it has a slow regen speed, using pheromones wouldn't help it since that uses plasma too. Unless I have misunderstood you, I fail to see what the problem is in removing pheromones from carriers.

[ZDashe]

The issue I'm worried about is trying to over-nerf carriers in their current state. I already acknowledged that their main purpose is to carry/toss huggers, but currently I don't really see a need to mess with a support caste ability like pheromones. Maybe i'm missing an important point somewhere about why it's "OP" for carriers to have pheromones since people claim that they "don't see anyone going carrier just because they can use pheromones".

The real question people really need to ask is this: "Are carriers really OP?"

[caleeb101]

The issue I'm worried about is trying to over-nerf carriers in their current state. I already acknowledged that their main purpose is to carry/toss huggers, but currently I don't really see a need to mess with a support caste ability like pheromones. Maybe i'm missing an important point somewhere about why it's "OP" for carriers to have pheromones since people claim that they "don't see anyone going carrier just because they can use pheromones".

The real question people really need to ask is this: "Are carriers really OP?"

This update has made carriers OP and other castes a bit redundant in all honesty. Not completely useless but less useful than the carrier itself. So, I'm going to start this here instead of making another post. In my opinion, and I am going to blunt here, YES WITH A CAPITAL Y, E and S. And here is why:
-Carrier throws hugger. Hits marine. Marine is on the ground. Now there are many things that can happen. Either they're dragged off by the ayys or marines get to the poor soul. If marines drag them back, they risk themselves being hugged and also must wake the host up from the 'hugging' since the stun lasts so long now. Marines don't get to them? It's an almost guaranteed +1 for aliens since they're knocked for so long it's easy to get them to the hive and nesting is almost impossible to escape. On top of this, some marines don't make it back in time for surgery (most tbh). Also note that all bursted marines are also a massive -1 for marines since they can't be revived too. Now that that is explained, let's assume we don't have a carrier look at what every other caste must now do.. stun and tackle them until they get them back to the hive just for infection. It's easier just to kill them. Another -1 for marines and it's now going to happen way more frequently because playing them arguably got easier due to this update. Carriers can hug them and drag them back to the nest at the same time though. And not just hug them but hug them effectively and at range so they don't have to risk their fragile bodies. It's just minus after minus for marines. And it's all due to the carrier throwing a hugger. It starts a chain reaction, not only by being played but just BY EXISTING. This was a big post so I hope you understand my point. I read over it like 5 times as well..

[TJ3003]

Big -1 for the Drones
-1 for Carriers too, but Ill go into details on the carriers, its pretty clear why drones still need them. The carriers as of right now have pheromones as they are classified as a support caste, all they have is three abilities, throw hugger, pheromones, and weeds. If they engage in mele, they will die to their low HP, if they do anything other then stay in the back lines and throw huggers, they most likley, die. So its a factor of how powerful pheromones can be? Not very, if you look at it in this way that not every drone or hivelord emits pheromones, having those carriers that emit either frenzy to give themselfs a minor speedboost, or thankfully emit recovery can be a godsend, especially since carriers are almost always close to the front line, where as drones and hive lords commonly are not.
Additionally the bonuses attained from those pheromones are negligible when drones and hivelords are around anyway, why remove a ability from a already severely limited caste when other castes have them just on hand anyway, to boot if a carrier lacks eggs, what the hell are they to do? There literaly just a weed laying useless Xeno then, without pheromones carriers would be completely useless on the front lines without eggs..Theld just hide in the hive for eggs which isn't very engaging gameplay. Atleast with pheromones Carriers have something to do when the queen isnt laying eggs as commonly.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

-1 carriers don't need a nerf.

Carriers are a support role and fill a similar job to that of a req officer/techincian/doctor. They build healing weed, make healing smells (or combat smells) and carry huggers for infecting distracted or tackled hosts.

Carriers can't be combat-caste anymore because of the hugger stun. They need another alien to stun/distract the marine long enough for the hugger to attack them. Otherwise the hugger will just get focused and the aliens lose about five minutes worth of waiting (huggers take ages to grow now). They don't need another nerf thanku.

[Szunti]

Played more and now I realize this isn't a good idea. No support from others either. Please close.