Predator KO reduction

[Kerek]

Happened to me a good few times with the cheese KOs. Done it a good few times too, but it is agrivating and feels like a waste if a good round when it happens.

+1

[Boltersam]

Bump.

[Sarah_U.]

Can't add more than the community itself needs to be more active and review suggestions.

[Casany]

+1

I never try to KO preds personally. There's no fun in beating an opponent that can't fight back. And sometimes people forget that predators are players just as much as the rest, and they're just removing them from the round with cheese.

Either way, this'd be a nice addition

[MrJJJ]

We really need this sooner or later...

[Symbiosis]

Question: Predators have increased armor and health, right?

They have powerful melee weapons and speed, right?

Their risk when engaging a Marine 1v1 in combat is the Marine lands a lucky hit that knocks them out.

By removing the "chance" a Marine has to knock out a Pred with a lucky hit, you're going to create an environment where less Marines are willing to engage in melee combat. Call it Meta Gaming if you will, but if players know the outcome is slash the Pred a few times and get decapped (thus THEIR round coming to an end) people will avoid fair fights like the plague.

Having "KO immunity" means you can murder Marines without fear of losing. The "risk" or "chance" of dying makes things more enjoyable for both sides.

If Preds want fair fights, have them remove their armor within the safety of their ship. Give them the ability to more easily capture Humans. Watching a Pred with advanced weaponry and armor wallop a human who stands nearly zero chance isn't "fair" nor "exciting" for either party.

-1

[Boltersam]

Question: Predators have increased armor and health, right?

They have powerful melee weapons and speed, right?

Their risk when engaging a Marine 1v1 in combat is the Marine lands a lucky hit that knocks them out.

By removing the "chance" a Marine has to knock out a Pred with a lucky hit, you're going to create an environment where less Marines are willing to engage in melee combat. Call it Meta Gaming if you will, but if players know the outcome is slash the Pred a few times and get decapped (thus THEIR round coming to an end) people will avoid fair fights like the plague.

Having "KO immunity" means you can murder Marines without fear of losing. The "risk" or "chance" of dying makes things more enjoyable for both sides.

If Preds want fair fights, have them remove their armor within the safety of their ship. Give them the ability to more easily capture Humans. Watching a Pred with advanced weaponry and armor wallop a human who stands nearly zero chance isn't "fair" nor "exciting" for either party.

-1

Question: KO chaining completely removes any way for ANYONE to fight back, regardless of equipment, right?

Marines almost always outnumber and even outgun predators, right?

The risk shouldn't be that anyone gets lucky. The risk should be that they're skilled. Many predators will in fact remove their armour and use shitty weapons, or even fight unarmed, in order to make the fight fairer.

By removing the very high (With knives. With machetes, it's ungodly.) chance a Marine has to knock out a pred with a lucky (Not skilled) hit, we can create an environment where while less Marines will be willing to engage in melee combat because they can no longer use cheese, the ones that do, do so on basis of skill. In fact, whenever we duel people currently, we have to take a huge amount of precautions so that we aren't cheesed and looted. If this change were to go through, we could afford to remove our armour more often, to give people the fairest fights possible, even giving them the advantage. If even then, fair fights are avoided like the plague, then maybe they should be, because the people who seek out these fights are the people that preds want to fight.

Having "KO immunity" doesn't mean we can murder Marines without fear of losing. It means we can afford to give them the fair fights that they want, and some even deserve. The risk of dying does make fighting fairly enjoyable. But knowing that you were beaten because of luck and cheese? That's not enjoyable.

We do want fair fights. And yes, we do remove our armour, and sometimes hold duels on the ship. We tried to get the ability to more easily capture humans, but it was shot down. Watching a Pred decked out in full weaponry and armour wallop a human who stands nearly zero chance isn't enjoyable for either party, true. But watching an unarmoured predator wielding a baseball bat against an armed and armoured Marine? Now that's a fight I could put metaphorical money on.

[Symbiosis]

Question: KO chaining completely removes any way for ANYONE to fight back, regardless of equipment, right?

Marines almost always outnumber and even outgun predators, right?

The risk shouldn't be that anyone gets lucky. The risk should be that they're skilled. Many predators will in fact remove their armour and use shitty weapons, or even fight unarmed, in order to make the fight fairer.

By removing the very high (With knives. With machetes, it's ungodly.) chance a Marine has to knock out a pred with a lucky (Not skilled) hit, we can create an environment where while less Marines will be willing to engage in melee combat because they can no longer use cheese, the ones that do, do so on basis of skill. In fact, whenever we duel people currently, we have to take a huge amount of precautions so that we aren't cheesed and looted. If this change were to go through, we could afford to remove our armour more often, to give people the fairest fights possible, even giving them the advantage. If even then, fair fights are avoided like the plague, then maybe they should be, because the people who seek out these fights are the people that preds want to fight.

Having "KO immunity" doesn't mean we can murder Marines without fear of losing. It means we can afford to give them the fair fights that they want, and some even deserve. The risk of dying does make fighting fairly enjoyable. But knowing that you were beaten because of luck and cheese? That's not enjoyable.

We do want fair fights. And yes, we do remove our armour, and sometimes hold duels on the ship. We tried to get the ability to more easily capture humans, but it was shot down. Watching a Pred decked out in full weaponry and armour wallop a human who stands nearly zero chance isn't enjoyable for either party, true. But watching an unarmoured predator wielding a baseball bat against an armed and armoured Marine? Now that's a fight I could put metaphorical money on.

A well thought out response. I think we both want the same thing, and that's a better RP atmosphere for these duels. I hope to avoid a "Murderbone" approach, frankly. Killing in full Armor is pretty meh, especially when the Marine is handed a knife and then the Predator gloats like he's a badass. That'd be like a Ravager 1v1'ing a dude with a knife and gloating.

More fair duels would be great, especially in situations aboard the ship where Predators can create arenas with weaponry strewn across them for both the Predator and Prey to engage in a duel. That way both parties can gain enjoyment from the fight.

[Boltersam]

A well thought out response. I think we both want the same thing, and that's a better RP atmosphere for these duels. I hope to avoid a "Murderbone" approach, frankly. Killing in full Armor is pretty meh, especially when the Marine is handed a knife and then the Predator gloats like he's a badass. That'd be like a Ravager 1v1'ing a dude with a knife and gloating.

More fair duels would be great, especially in situations aboard the ship where Predators can create arenas with weaponry strewn across them for both the Predator and Prey to engage in a duel. That way both parties can gain enjoyment from the fight.

Agreed. And I fully believe that this suggestion is the first step towards this goal. I can promise you, the "Murderbone" approach as you call it, where the Predator, decked out in full armour laughs as the human pounds on him, then snaps his neck. The point of duels, at least when fighting other species, is to take a skilled opponent and put them on even grounds, and a lot of predator players, I dare say all of them, want to have the latter sort of duels.

While we don't have official arenas, with some searching and looting, we can do exactly what you described. It's an interesting idea, and it has enough merit that some may try it out.

[Boltersam]

Bump.

[Aracino]

It's a single pred vs a platoon of marines. I think it'd be fine to have stun resistance for rines, and increased chances of body slamming pouncing Xenos

[Renomaki]

I had one round recently where during a lodge defense, the marines had managed to pummel one of my fellow hunters down and wail on them. Had I not gotten involved and saved them, they would have slaughtered them and stole all their gear.

Knocking out preds is fine, it is the fact that you can create perma-KOs with constant hits to the face. Yes, marines often get chopped into pieces when facing preds in melee, but if one guy with a knife manages to get lucky and get a good bap in, that predator is toast.

Keep melee for the robust and reduce that KO chance, we don't want to reward marines for abusing such a tactic and assuming they are expert fighters because of it.

[Molly Mirrions]

Well, to clarify, in that fight, I downed him with 4 consecutive hits with buck basically point blank, and landed all additional hits. I don't know much about damage values, but I think that's a lot of damage in a short window of time. We were stabbing him after he fell, which is when you showed up (I was stupidly stabbing in the chest, too). Should he have gotten up from that without help? I'm not sure.

However, the pred I downed later dueled some guy, and the knockdown he suffered was indeed bullshit. It didn't feel like an epic duel by any means. Just kind of.. "oh, he's down, such glorious RNG". They definitely need a KO reduction, a very strong one. I also think they should have a very strong KO resistance. I don't recall the pred getting knocked down in the movies by anything other than a truckload of damage (and even then, it could use its bracers).

Only the very best of humanity should beat a predator in a honor duel. They should only fall down when in deep crit, and maybe should be able to use their tools for a brief period of time before total blackout. I feel like murrines acquiring pred gear should be as rare as a predalien.