Predator KO reduction

[Boltersam]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

Predators are easily taken out with KOs. No chance to explode, infinite chain until death and stuff stolen. It's not supposed to be this easy, so I propose two ways to reduce/eliminate KOs on predators.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
Not make Predators need to be afraid and take extreme precautions when fighting people because a single knife to the face can be a death sentence.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Two options that I propose.
A: Remove KOs entirely, but replace them with a slowdown/daze effect
This would weaken the Predator but doesn't make them completely helpless as with KOs.

B: Instead of removing KOs, make them much shorter, and unable to chain KOs.
Example: Manlyrine KOs Predator. Manlyrine cannot keep KO-chaining Predator until Predator's inevitable death and looting.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
I'm not good with code, but I believe this is roughly how it goes.

A: When Predmob receives KO proc, Daze(Slowdown/other effect) is procced instead. AKA: If pred KO'd, apply Daze

B: When Predmob receives KO proc, AlteredKO is procced instead. AKA: If Pred KO'd, apply AlteredKO

[Karmac]

+1 I've used and abused this easy method of handling preds for quite a while now, it's a serious issue.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

I'm...gonna have to agree here. We've...kinda become memes, and I walk on eggshells and am extremely careful when I do anything. A marine can kill you with a lucky hit to the head, xenus can kill you with tackles, we've...kinda fallen from grace I suppose. +1

[Sleepy Retard]

While I hate rasta breadmen, it's hard to take them seriously when a marine kicks a rock and they decide to take a nap for a couple years. +1

[Boltersam]

If I could, I'd have a poll for which option to use.

EDIT: Karmac's a derp.

[Karmac]

Go to full editor preview and I think it's at the bottom of the page you get a little poll button, I dunno how it works

[TheMusician321]

+1, I once murdered a pred this way with an entrenching tool.

[Sarah_U.]

+1, that's a really good solution to a problem that's all-over.

[Swagile]

Predators can insta KO nearly every other hit with almost every single Predator weapon available to them against any human target while marines have a very finite RNG chance of managing a KO on a predator.

On top of that, KO's are one of the few methods of taking down a predator, alongside claymores and SADAR, both of which are VERY rare currently (one box per Squad, one SADAR in the entire game now), and its the only one readily available to every Marine.

Nerfing it to the ground is not needed. Just get good, your weapons literally delimb with the highest RNG chance in the game next to Elite Ravagers, and your KO chance is up there with the delimb chance. You go at Ancient Runner speeds so if you get hit, and the Marine somehow summoned the gods of RNG and got a KO, he should be rewarded for it.

- 1

[Karmac]

Reduce the gib chance for xenos while your at it...

[Sarah_U.]

Predators can insta KO nearly every other hit with almost every single Predator weapon available to them against any human target while marines have a very finite RNG chance of managing a KO on a predator.

On top of that, KO's are one of the few methods of taking down a predator, alongside claymores and SADAR, both of which are VERY rare currently (one box per Squad, one SADAR in the entire game now), and its the only one readily available to every Marine.

Nerfing it to the ground is not needed. Just get good, your weapons literally delimb with the highest RNG chance in the game next to Elite Ravagers, and your KO chance is up there with the delimb chance. You go at Ancient Runner speeds so if you get hit, and the Marine somehow summoned the gods of RNG and got a KO, he should be rewarded for it.

- 1

Swagile, you don't know that knives and most RNG chance weapons are highly iikely to KO pred. They have an higher KO chance than other mobs as of now and every single knife fight with more than 3 hits I've seen was rewarded with the marine stacking KO for over a minute long without the predator being able to stand up.

It's not like I'd discourage KO as a whole since it's really rewarding, but preds themselves step down their game when it comes to actual fighting and not retaliation and such. Preds rarely use the scythe and other super cheap weapons unless they're finding themselves at equivalent setup which makes it much more needed... Overall, KO is just a cheap way to get through preds and in a fight where you clearly think a super trained 200 year old combattant with advanced melee tactic would be able to fight/retaliate against such hits.

[coroneljones]

+1
This is getting a bit ridiculous
So far seen a round where four preds, yes, four preds, got KOed from a knife to the head, this needs to change.

[Swagile]

Swagile, you don't know that knives and most RNG chance weapons are highly iikely to KO pred. They have an higher KO chance than other mobs as of now and every single knife fight with more than 3 hits I've seen was rewarded with the marine stacking KO for over a minute long without the predator being able to stand up.

It's not like I'd discourage KO as a whole since it's really rewarding, but preds themselves step down their game when it comes to actual fighting and not retaliation and such. Preds rarely use the scythe and other super cheap weapons unless they're finding themselves at equivalent setup which makes it much more needed... Overall, KO is just a cheap way to get through preds and in a fight where you clearly think a super trained 200 year old combattant with advanced melee tactic would be able to fight/retaliate against such hits.

The problem is, in a "fair" and honorable duel against a Predator, a marines only chance is a KO. None of the current replacements to a KO will give a marine any chance of succeeding against a Predator. You might as well just ignore or buckshot Predators whenever you see them if KO's are removed because only a truly unrobust Predator would die to anyone using melee considering their speed + weapons + other shit I don't even know about because im not privileged to that knowledge.

[Sarah_U.]

The problem is, in a "fair" and honorable duel against a Predator, a marines only chance is a KO. None of the current replacements to a KO will give a marine any chance of succeeding against a Predator. You might as well just ignore or buckshot Predators whenever you see them if KO's are removed because only a truly unrobust Predator would die to anyone using melee considering their speed + weapons + other shit I don't even know about because im not privileged to that knowledge.

As stated, we generally downgrade our abilities to match the target. Plus, it really just feels like a featherweight class punching a super heavy weight boxer into an hard down KO while it barrely connected to a sensible part of the body.
Even if he hit the chin, some boxers will be dazed at best and get back inside the fight slowed by the impact.

If anything, I'd admit stacking the slowdowns and ultimately exhausting the pred into stumbling about / falling over in a mess of blood and confusion would be relatively nice and a proper middle-ground. But straight out KOs with an edged weapon is- AS A WHOLE EVEN, retarded.

[Swagile]

As stated, we generally downgrade our abilities to match the target. Plus, it really just feels like a featherweight class punching a super heavy weight boxer into an hard down KO while it barrely connected to a sensible part of the body.
Even if he hit the chin, some boxers will be dazed at best and get back inside the fight slowed by the impact.

If anything, I'd admit stacking the slowdowns and ultimately exhausting the pred into stumbling about / falling over in a mess of blood and confusion would be relatively nice and a proper middle-ground. But straight out KOs with an edged weapon is- AS A WHOLE EVEN, retarded.

A replacement would be holodamage instead of a KO, which would slow down and eventually exhaust someone enough that it will make them fall over in exhaustion just like in vanilla SS13.

Same system just not instant.

[danmax67]

+1
I wanna fear Preds again, I wanna hear that clicking noise and run for my life.

[Boltersam]

The problem is, in a "fair" and honorable duel against a Predator, a marines only chance is a KO. None of the current replacements to a KO will give a marine any chance of succeeding against a Predator. You might as well just ignore or buckshot Predators whenever you see them if KO's are removed because only a truly unrobust Predator would die to anyone using melee considering their speed + weapons + other shit I don't even know about because im not privileged to that knowledge.

That being said, it's not the Marine's only chance. Preds, including me, have been beaten fairly and honourably without KOs by Marines. However, the KO chance on Marine melee weapons like the machete and knife are so high, that Predators are easily taken out by RNG. I don't want KOs to become completely ineffective, but I also don't want them to make the Predator completely helpless and unable to respond. Predators are strong, they're supposed to be strong, but when anyone can knock them out with a papercut and chain that KO into infinity until they're dead, it makes them a bit of a joke.

[jusa297]

I HAVE TRAINED MY ENTIRE LIFE, I'VE KILLED MANY XENOS AND I'M NOW ONE OF THE MOST HEAVILY EQUIPED AND GREATEST...

wat is dis? A knife to the head, even though i'm wearing a helmet and my skeleton is E X T R A T H I C C? Well, i guess i'm fucked


+1 this shouldn't happen.

[MrJJJ]

The problem is, in a "fair" and honorable duel against a Predator, a marines only chance is a KO. None of the current replacements to a KO will give a marine any chance of succeeding against a Predator. You might as well just ignore or buckshot Predators whenever you see them if KO's are removed because only a truly unrobust Predator would die to anyone using melee considering their speed + weapons + other shit I don't even know about because im not privileged to that knowledge.

I see that someone has missed Karmac killing a predator with only a knife and b18 armor
I see someone missed Casany beating a predator, even shaking him up if he got KOed with just a machete
I see you missed other people just beating predators fairly

Fighting a predator in a fair and honorable duel shouldn't be easy, ever

I should not be able to walk up to one of the most robust predators like Jones and smack him once with my knife in the head, then strip him and win.

Its far too often in any "honorable" or "dishonorable" duels that a predator will for some reason, by somehow insane logic be KOed by a knife that is essentially a size of his finger for him, through his mask and skull, and for nearly the same duration a human would be stunned as well, which makes it easy to loot the pred or murder him.

Hell if you wanna complain how unfair its to fight a predator, i have a answer for you then

*DON'T FIGHT THE PREDATOR*
If i see a predator, i am not going to fucking fight it, if you are honorably fighting a pred and then somehow expect a duel against a alien that has super advanced tech to be fair in any way...where are your priorities my sir?

[Jay Burns]

Awwwwww yisss pred rund, been waiting all day for this, I'm gonna duel this guy here! Oh Shit I got knocked out on his first hit and I'm now dead.

This has happened to me more than once and it is the most infuriating thing imaginable.

+1

[Swagile]

I see that someone has missed Karmac killing a predator with only a knife and b18 armor
I see someone missed Casany beating a predator, even shaking him up if he got KOed with just a machete
I see you missed other people just beating predators fairly

Fighting a predator in a fair and honorable duel shouldn't be easy, ever

I should not be able to walk up to one of the most robust predators like Jones and smack him once with my knife in the head, then strip him and win.

Its far too often in any "honorable" or "dishonorable" duels that a predator will for some reason, by somehow insane logic be KOed by a knife that is essentially a size of his finger for him, through his mask and skull, and for nearly the same duration a human would be stunned as well, which makes it easy to loot the pred or murder him.

Hell if you wanna complain how unfair its to fight a predator, i have a answer for you then

*DON'T FIGHT THE PREDATOR*
If i see a predator, i am not going to fucking fight it, if you are honorably fighting a pred and then somehow expect a duel against a alien that has super advanced tech to be fair in any way...where are your priorities my sir?

Yeah, I try not to fight Predators, but they fight me instead so *shrug. That or they rush into a group of Marines and try to swipe one guy then are surprised when they get shot at with AP.

And ive never seen these fights myself personally, so I can't say much. Ive just seen Predators use their super speed and Pred weapons to easily delimb marines that fight them. If you have a riot shield, B18, and machete you stand a chance without KO, sure. But other than those special circumstances (and you wasting Spec equipment to fight some random Predator that will most likely screen wipe you with an explosion is meh) fighting a Predator without KO's is suicide unless they are unrobust as heck.

[Karmac]

Just so you know I've been outrun by a Mature Hunter, we don't go as fast as you think we do.

And from personal experience you can duel preds fairly without abusing the KO, and win, you don't even need a a machete or riot shield.

[Swagile]

Just so you know I've been outrun by a Mature Hunter, we don't go as fast as you think we do.

And from personal experience you can duel preds fairly without abusing the KO, and win, you don't even need a a machete or riot shield.

Must be perspective wise, since they run from marines quite fast.

My bad.

[Karmac]

It's like trying to tell if a hunter or runner is faster as a marine, they're both ridiculously faster than you and thats all that matters, sorta.

[NescauComToddy]

I Agree with this reduction of RNG, since we often witness ridiculous situations where beings with a superior Resistance are defeated with a single blow to the head. Something simple, yet that affects most of the players who are currently on the whitelist.

About the speed of a Hunter compared to that of a Yautja, I believe it is balanced if we analyze it more deeply.