Remove peri bottles from venders

[Crab_Spider]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Remove peri bottles from venders and instead have pill bottles of them

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Less need for Commanders to ban it, more control of the drug, Marines get now realize it's a privilege to be given peri, players with robotic limbs now get imidizalone. It's more of powergaming (oh shut up) and having to make sure medics are simply treating their patients efficiently.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Remove peridaxon bottles (the restockabke bottles) from the Weyland Medvenders, and simply keep the pool bottles. There are no situations where you'd absolutely need peri, these are situations where your medic is neglecting to provide to provide the meds you need to be stabilized.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Coding.

[Karmac]

Having peri in liquid form is actually really convenient for some medics that make use of syringes or hypos, and if docs want to start making miracle pills again it'll be that much harder without peri already in liquid form, there's not really an reason to remove this.

[MrJJJ]

The only thing i would agree on here, is removing them from vendors on planet, otherwise no.

[Szunti]

+1, end the infinite amount of peri.
would be +2 if simply remove peri from vendors or remove peri from the game.

[Ping]

Ok, I think I'll need a... bit of context. To clarify things, I'm a medic main, and while that may add to a bias for keeping peri, it does guarantee that I have a good understanding of the department.

Firstly, the core of the issue: Medics tend to favour peri pill bottles while doctors tend to favour peri liquid bottles. Medics prefer pills because of the extra storage (100u of Peri). Doctors prefer liquid bottles because they are restockable and they don't have to deal with OD damage. Getting rid of peri liquid bottles should only effect the Doctors side, and really all it does is force them to make their own Peri.

The suggestion is requesting to replace the liquid bottles with pill bottles, but there are... already pill bottles. Do you want to add more pill bottles? More importantly, I have several questions, including:

Removing liquid Peri gives more control of the drug: How?

Marines get now realize it's a privilege to be given peri: How?

players with robotic limbs now get imidizalone: What the fuck?

and having to make sure medics are simply treating their patients efficiently: How would removing a unique drug that is designed to heal a specific, common, and extremely deadly problem make medics more efficient?

There are no situations where you'd absolutely need peri: What in the fuck?

[Zantus]

-1
This doesn't change much other than the accessibility of getting peri via bottles, not reinforcing any single one of the points you made.

[Symbiosis]

+1, end the infinite amount of peri.
would be +2 if simply remove peri from vendors or remove peri from the game.

But why remove it or remove the ability to restock JUST Peri? Replace it with something else that heals organ damage? Or allow Tricord to heal organ damage?


You're being vague, and while I'm personally glad Crab and others continue making these posts (it reveals how "logical" the Anti-Peri crowd tends to be) the reasoning is just not there. You can restock nearly every medicine, or create every medicine indefinitely.


The powergaming "reason" in of itself is not an argument, it's a statement. It's powergaming for a Medic to bring extra Bicaridine because they have learned that the 5u pills don't cut it. It's powergaming for Doctors to create pills/chems prior to them being needed because they have learned what are the most common chems. It's powergaming for Command to send Marines down with heavy weaponry when W-Y wants the facility kept in good working order. This is similar to arguing that mission should start with ointments, bandages, and everyone armed with pistols to ensure no damage to the facility and that costs are low.

The most important part of military doctrine is mission preparedness. Training and proper equipment are cornerstones of any operation. If you think rioting over attachments is limited to SS13, you'd be wrong. Marines and Soldiers have gone out of their way to finagle equipment that wasn't up to snuff (for example, side SAPI plates controversy).

[Chuckachu]

First thing I do with a useful drug that is in pill form as the researcher to grind them back to liquid. And while slow for a weak resercher like myself to make Peri really all that hard to make. I've had a doctor that normally was a researcher come up steal my beaker than produce 10+ bottles of his forum named NuOrgan concoction. And this was all without touching the vendor! Never saw that doc again because he had everything he needed and he was done before the breifing. Rest of the game he had his extra bag of NuOrgan in his OR room while he worked on fixing marines.

Now if you search the wiki page there are TWO and only TWO drugs that deal with internal organ damage. Peri to heal and Polytronic Acid to damage. The most I see happening is they rename Peri as aliens cause internal organ damage, bleeding out does and being shot differently does thanks to FF. And the way the game is setup right now is the colony was a viable living space with a functioning medbay before the bugs, so they would have Peri on hand to fix liver, heart, lung damage caused by bad environments or diseases.

-1

[Szunti]

You don't really need internal organ fixing medicine because surgery can fix that already. And except for OD everything else comes with a broken bone that need surgery anyway. What peri does is remove the need for dexalin, imidazoline, brain surgeries, stasis bags etc. It just removes variety. Having one thing for everything is boring. Else there could be just the medic need to click repeatedly on anyone and he is fixed.

[Tidomann]

Peri gave my children autism. We need to ban this harmful drug from the muhreens.

At least whenever mps and command are being dicks and restricting everything but bandages and ointments I can go talk to my friendly CL about command not allowing us to be prepared to help any survivors down on the surface.

Plus then I have to take stasis bags, because who doesn't love being out of round for 30 minutes for a burst lung from FF 5 minutes into the round. Otherwise I'm pretty much babysitting with dex and ino to make sure he can actually move off of the bird and not suffocate

[Chuckachu]

Or you don't need surgery because you have Peridoxin to fix that already. Add a bone mending drug and wham no need for surgery. Its a rather circular argument.

Bang for my buck while the one Round I was a medic marine's bodyguard he didn't have time to do field surgery just a touch and go to keep them alive long enough to maybe get dragged the in game ten miles to the dropships. I would imagine that Peri gets abused alot because its easier than really fixing the problem yes. But the inverse is also true, bugs setup show or landed in lower medbay so no more surgeries and no more docs, stab them with the a hypospray from the researchers stash!

[Tidomann]

Or you don't need surgery because you have Peridoxin to fix that already. Add a bone mending drug and wham no need for surgery. Its a rather circular argument.

Bang for my buck while the one Round I was a medic marine's bodyguard he didn't have time to do field surgery just a touch and go to keep them alive long enough to maybe get dragged the in game ten miles to the dropships. I would imagine that Peri gets abused alot because its easier than really fixing the problem yes. But the inverse is also true, bugs setup show or landed in lower medbay so no more surgeries and no more docs, stab them with the a hypospray from the researchers stash!

Medics aren't allowed to do surgeries though.

[Chuckachu]

Also that...this whole Anti-Peri thing....I just realized has been feeding a troll. I'm out.

[Ping]

You don't really need internal organ fixing medicine because surgery can fix that already. And except for OD everything else comes with a broken bone that need surgery anyway. What peri does is remove the need for dexalin, imidazoline, brain surgeries, stasis bags etc. It just removes variety. Having one thing for everything is boring. Else there could be just the medic need to click repeatedly on anyone and he is fixed.

See, this is something I can work with!

I think that one of the main, driving arguments against Peri is the fact that it completely negates the purpose of organ surgery, and therefore giving Doctors less work. It's a bit of a miracle drug that prevents the use of Dex and statis bags and whatnot. Plus, they have broken bones anyways, so they need to be sent up. However, in practice, the following applies.

-As I'm sure you've noticed if you've played a round of standard, Medbay is already a complete shitshow of injured and patients needed treatment. Even with 3 Doctors that only have to deal with Chest-Bursters, Broken Bones, Shrapnel, and Missing Limbs, they're often swamped out of their minds with the insane amount of patients they receive every return drop. The majority of Doctors, Casual or Main, pretty much agree that more work is the last thing on their minds.

-For severe cases of organ damage, patients need to be stabalized, sent to the LZ from where-ever they are, and make it into the surgery line, and even then they might end up straight up dying from their excessive liver or lung damage. Medics get a lot of patients, and even with peri, some inevitably die due to the medics not being able to get to them in time.

-Broken bones don't require immediate attention; a splint will do just fine (as long as the medic in question remembers to put it on). This works with organ damage cases too. You can Peri, splint, and they can get back into the action. Imagine if every single marine that got FF'd needed immediate evac. It would be an absolute fucking nightmare.

- Stabilization is not completely gone because of organ damage: blood loss around the 60% and 50% percent is already very prevalent, and has no quick fix solution other than an IV at the FOB (Which I haven't seen in roughly a month, lets start doing it again!). Those stabilization cases are enough to keep statis bags and dexalin/inaprov in the game.

-On that note, nobody wants their treatment time extended by a damn statis bag. I understand variety, but my personal treatment variety shouldn't extend a marines inability to fight by another 10+ minutes.

[Symbiosis]

You don't really need internal organ fixing medicine because surgery can fix that already. And except for OD everything else comes with a broken bone that need surgery anyway. What peri does is remove the need for dexalin, imidazoline, brain surgeries, stasis bags etc. It just removes variety. Having one thing for everything is boring. Else there could be just the medic need to click repeatedly on anyone and he is fixed.

Play Medic for a while. I'm not sure who you play/what you play, but if you play Medic/Doctor, you'll understand why Peri is necessary and more IMPORTANTLY why stasis bags aren't used.

Stasis Bags - you throw a patient in one and he expires from Oxy damage or whatever else. He is now NOT defibable. Stasis bags also don't fit on roller beds. Try dragging a stasis bag from anywhere distant on the map. Now four or five more people have died from the time you've invested dragging a FF'ed patient back to the LZ. Thus, from a triage standpoint, this does not happen.

Dexalin - If someone gets a SINGLE AP round to chest and gets a punctured lung they are dead without Peridaxon. Why, you ask? Because of triage. If a patient requires constant mouth to mouth I'm letting other patients expire.

Also, ONE final thing. Chest wounds aren't as fatal in real life as they are in SS13. Assuming a lung is punctured you can seal it. Let's say it's a tension pneumothorax, a more advanced form of chest injury. You can use a syringe to relief pressure. You can survive with one lung.

So by all means, remove Medics ability to use Peri. But give us the right tools to PROPERLY treat a wound rather than say "Babysit" the patient when you don't understand the way the SS13 damage system works.

[Symbiosis]

So, let's say you want to remove Peri (fine with that) - allow STASIS bags to be picked up by the dropship. Medevac style.



This would be more realistic. Rather than dragging patients, right?

New Addition = Medical Chopper with the ability to medevac wounded?

[Chuckachu]

Better suggestion, add a device on DS2 that takes the rear gunner point that allows the SL to tag stasis bags to be tagged for said pickups during a fire support mission. sorta a fly back snatch. But only in the statis bag as the force of being picked up at such high speeds would kill you otherwise.

[nerocavalier]

Marines get now realize it's a privilege to be given peri, players with robotic limbs now get imidizalone. It's more of powergaming (oh shut up) and having to make sure medics are simply treating their patients efficiently.

Robotic limbs and imidazoline. I don't even have to say anything for this. Treating patients efficiently is usig peridaxon.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Remove peridaxon bottles (the restockabke bottles) from the Weyland Medvenders, and simply keep the pool bottles.

Restockable bottles aren't the problem.

There are no situations where you'd absolutely need peri, these are situations where your medic is neglecting to provide to provide the meds you need to be stabilized.

By that logic, there is no reason to have specialists, because marines are neglecting to kill xenos properly. Peridaxon is a crutch and a darn useful one at that. But the no situations where you would need it is a rather bold claim.

The standard dexalin pill bottle would be able to maintain four dying marines and they would be probably be suffocating slowly and not able move back on their own. With peridaxon, they CAN walk back on their own or more realistically know marines go back into combat. There are a limited amount of medics and among them, roughly half die, go SSD, or have no idea what they're doing. You're making those medics have to deal with more things because with dexalin, they have to frantically medevac or those marines die which means other wounded marines won't get any medical attention from said medic.

Before you say stasis bags, they are slow and might as well be useless. Any marines that die inside of one and believe me, they likely will, won't be able to defibbed. Not to mention the fact that stasis bags have a movespeed reduction and marines that need them now are probably on the front lines far away from any LZ.

How about doctors then? Did a Doctor fail to provide proper meds by using peridaxon to speed up their surgery? Without it, they often have to cut open someone's head or chest with a saw in order to fix their internal organs. And close it as well. Time is the limiting factor for doctors and those fifteen seconds you save with peridaxon is the difference between a larva bursting and a marine living.

[Szunti]

Let them die. Treat those who don't need constant attention, when many need you. Triage is a bad thing as combat medic. I often die to trivial injuries because medics ignore me until I am in crit. They waste all medicines and time on a single nearly dead one, who won't even be able to fight again while 4 other dies to bleeding out or goes into paincrit after single spit and left behind.

[nerocavalier]

Let them die. Treat those who don't need constant attention, when many needs you. Triage is a bad thing as combat medic. I often die to trivial injuries because medics ignore me until I am in crit. They waste all medicines and time on a single nearly dead one, who won't even be able to fight again while 4 other dies to bleeding out or goes into paincrit after single spit and left behind.

Then that's just your unfortunate luck. It's not that hard to treat four other guys for minor wounds while you're healing a critically dying marine. There is also the fact that those four marines could have tried healing themselves with either gauze, tricordrazine, or ointment. Heck, they could have even asked for adv. trauma/burn kits from their medics before they started dying. Or they could have attempted to find a different medic, call out for a nearby marine to help evac them, or even attempt to evac on their own.

It's impossible to save everyone. But that's not a reason to not try.

[Chuckachu]

Let them die. Treat those who don't need constant attention, when many need you. Triage is a bad thing as combat medic. I often die to trivial injuries because medics ignore me until I am in crit. They waste all medicines and time on a single nearly dead one, who won't even be able to fight again while 4 other dies to bleeding out or goes into paincrit after single spit and left behind.

Let them die, just take care of me? Semper Fi till he gets hurt. haha

[Symbiosis]

Let them die, just take care of me? Semper Fi till he gets hurt. haha

He's the guy that says that when he has a small injury, but when he's critically wounded he's screaming in looc for help haha

[Ikmalmn]

Better suggestion, add a device on DS2 that takes the rear gunner point that allows the SL to tag stasis bags to be tagged for said pickups during a fire support mission. sorta a fly back snatch. But only in the statis bag as the force of being picked up at such high speeds would kill you otherwise.

What? The way you have described it is...what? To add to that, I don't think an SL would even care wasting his time singlehandedly tagging each and every one of the stasis bags with the role already in demand of command and handling a squad of marines awaiting hungrily for orders. Another thing is that this supposed'ed "attachment" suggestion requires the use of a stasis bag, I don't you but barely anyone uses stasis bags, it's only one or two uses is just infected marines and the situation where the patient has a punctured lung and you don't have that miracle drug that is named Peridaxon. Even then, the patient will probably be forgotten and die, a fate worse than getting cheesed by anything, really.

-snip of this shitpost rant-

Well that's, for a lack of better word for a fancy word, unlucky. This things happens, medics tend to get tunneled vision. This is simply human error that can only be fix by the person who plays it. However, the medic does have a adequately valid reason to not heal you really, you kinda don't need it, if it's a green and above bar in their HUD scanner, to the eyes of the medic, your practically fine and I assume this is what you describe as "minor injuries". Also, mind you, burn damage, specifically spits, are the bane of your life, it deals massive pain damage and for a mere 80 burns worth of damage, your practically down for good due to the pain, even with 40, your still struggling to walk. Lastly, if you really want medical attention, just go ahead and ask the damn medic, or find a competent medic that can help you, for all I know, a medic that is new is bound to shatter and falter under the stress of becoming one, hence leading them to tunnel visionning which leads them to only handling that one specific person who's in crit. I know I would help someone who at least announces that he needs some help.

[Snypehunter007]

Going to run through this with BMC, tomorrow. Please do not post until after Monday (07/03/17).