Remove the Grenade Indicator for Xenos

[Butterrobber202]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Remove the flashy Red Grenade Indicator for the Xeno Team.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Marine Weapons give off a SHITLOAD of Warnings before they are used against the enemy for some reason, making them easy to notice and avoid. This is just a removal of one of them to make them more viable. And we all know the second the Xenos see a grenade Warning they clear the fuck out, making grenades ineffective.

Details: Above.

Implementation: Code and Icon States and things.

EDIT: Another Reason, admins can't enforce, 'Why did you Metagame and not let yourself DIE????'

[Biolock]

Cook yer grenades.

[Butterrobber202]

Cook yer grenades.

and then explode when byond lags for a second.

[Biolock]

and then explode when byond lags for a second.

Lot's of things can happen when byond lags for a second.

[Rahlzel]

+1

Xenos should never be required to stand still on an explosive because of metagaming, but they also shouldn't have it easy.

[Symbiosis]

I don't like the Xenos moving from beeping things/grenades. If anything, I'd suggest only the OB no longer give a warning... Grenades will need to be nerfed if Xenos don't get the red flashing indicator, as I reckon they'd get walloped handily.

[Butterrobber202]

I don't like the Xenos moving from beeping things/grenades. If anything, I'd suggest only the OB no longer give a warning... Grenades will need to be nerfed if Xenos don't get the red flashing indicator, as I reckon they'd get walloped handily.

Walloping the Xenos is the point of this suggestion

[Boltersam]

Walloping the Xenos is the point of this suggestion

But walloping the Marines is the point of the game.

+1 if combined with Challenger's suggestion to make grenade timers begin after thrown, not when primed, as a fair disadvantage.

[Fritigern]

+1 for the idea

+1 if combined with Challenger's suggestion to make grenade timers begin after thrown, not when primed, as a fair disadvantage.

This completely negates the effect of removing the indicator. In fact it'd be a massive nerf to grenades across the board, and make them not even worth carrying.

[SlothMan]

+1 It'll help vastly.

[WinterClould]

+1 Would help nades be more useful for something other then a poor mans cyanide pill.

[Tom]

Right now grenades are only really useful for stunning lone queens, everything else that can see and hear nades coming are fast enough to escape it before it detonates. Removing the obvious warnings from nades (and OBs) for aliens would make people actually want to use them outside of stunning lone queens, it would help make alien gameplay more interesting since you'd actually have to be slightly aware and pay attention to whether or not the marines are throwing stuff at you. +1

[dylanstrategie]

We can remove the grenade indicator for everyone, but removing it for Xenos only would be a huge pain to do. This kind of dynamic screen element is very hard to set up sanely

[misto]

given that you guys seem to enjoy sending a lot of hostile human factions lately, it is not only xenos who run afoul of grenades, it might be reasonable to remove the warning ! for everyone, at least as a test.

an audible "frag out" emote we could choose to enable when tossing explosives, perhaps, if we grow safety concerned again

[Actuallythatguyyeah]

Would changing grenade indicators to be a marineHUD/human hud make it easier code-wise?

[Butterrobber202]

We can remove the grenade indicator for everyone, but removing it for Xenos only would be a huge pain to do. This kind of dynamic screen element is very hard to set up sanely

Yeah, quick question, if you can have the Grenade's Icon switch states using BYOND's Icon State thing, can you also set a HuD up to detect when the Grenade is in a 'Active' State?

Would it be possible to create a Tag in the code called 'Grenade_UI' and tag each grenade in the game with it, and when the marine HUD sees a tile that a grenade is on, it turns red, or has a hovering Red Exclamation Mark above it? The Problem with this idea is that I'm still unsure if you could convince a HuD to tell the difference between a live grenade and an inactive one.

[dylanstrategie]

This is not impossible but would involve a lot of processing cycles

It would be easier, faster and more realistic to just remove the big obvious "oh shit this nade is gonna go off" indicator, maybe use a more lore-friendly way to mark a primed grenade

[Sleepy Retard]

I think both sides shouldn't have an indicator for a grenade. Make it harder for both sides. If anything gets implemented making it so it's harder to see the grenade, I'll +1 it

+1

[MrJJJ]

I really think it should be removed, making it just appear for marines and not xenos is alot of work much like Dylan said, besides it would also mean it appears for other humans as well, UPP as of right now along with CLF don't have this on their nades (i think, last i saw anyway) and i don't see why USCM has it on theirs, it just tells the enemy "oh shit a grenade, good thing it was blinking away otherwise i would be unable to tell!"
+1

[Blade2000Br]

I am down to that if both Marines and Xenos can't see it. I mean, if someone will throw a grenade, he gotta scream "Frag out!" Or else, allies will be killed!

Now I will have another reason to blame the FF :b

+1

[Challenger]

We should be doing the OPPOSITE of this suggestion

Humans have no reason to see a grenade indicator, because their eyes just see a regular grenade, and the guy who dumps the grenade should be warning them anyway, plus they're not the ones who even have to be running away from grenades in the first place

Xenos operate off senses that are superior to humans' (night vision, seeing hostiles through walls) and a unified hivemind that is aware of the existence of grenades. So a xenomorph should instinctively and instantly be aware of a familiar clicking, beeping, explosive-smelling, fuse-sizzling, electromagnetic-wave-giving-off, thrown handheld threat within visual range, and this information should be provided to the player in the form of making the grenade sprite as noticeable as possible. Plus in gameplay terms grenades are a long enough stunlock that they're a death sentence, so I don't think it would be engaging gameplay for them to just get instantly fucked by something that, when thrown, travels to its destination faster and with less visibility than an actual bullet.

[MrJJJ]

We should be doing the OPPOSITE of this suggestion

Humans have no reason to see a grenade indicator, because their eyes just see a regular grenade, and the guy who dumps the grenade should be warning them anyway, plus they're not the ones who even have to be running away from grenades in the first place

Xenos operate off senses that are superior to humans' (night vision, seeing hostiles through walls) and a unified hivemind that is aware of the existence of grenades. So a xenomorph should instinctively and instantly be aware of a familiar clicking, beeping, explosive-smelling, fuse-sizzling, electromagnetic-wave-giving-off, thrown handheld threat within visual range, and this information should be provided to the player in the form of making the grenade sprite as noticeable as possible. Plus in gameplay terms grenades are a long enough stunlock that they're a death sentence, so I don't think it would be engaging gameplay for them to just get instantly fucked by something that, when thrown, travels to its destination faster and with less visibility than an actual bullet.

If you stay still for a moment, you are dead, thats the alien way of life as a T1 or T2, UGL's and Grenade Launcher doesn't explode fast enough, and if you have a good prae/queen that emits pheromones, and a decent crusher, even a grenade launcher spec will struggle to kill you, so if you got stunlocked as a runner by a grenade, you really deserve it.

Infact the only reason xenos can see hostiles through the walls so well defined is because of how BYOND Works, you either see the mob or you don't, only the AI has something going for them, and xenos are not AI, and it would require a clusterfuck of coding to implement something from a robotic to a player, and it may require going open-source which is a no no.

Also

So a xenomorph should instinctively and instantly be aware of a familiar clicking, beeping, explosive-smelling, fuse-sizzling, electromagnetic-wave-giving-off, thrown handheld threat within visual range, and this information should be provided to the player in the form of making the grenade sprite as noticeable as possible.

Marines should be as well by this logic, they spend gods know how long in bootcamp and seeing some action before this, so they would already understand by just the sound where the grenade is already and that they should duck, hell when i hear someone activating a nade i instictively back the fuck up, and when i fire a UGL but don't see it hit where i want it to, i start running away as soon as possible, knowing its right near me and its gonna explode me to shit.

Honestly doing the opposite of this suggestion is stupid as hell, just remove them for both sides, you never should stay still as a xeno or if you are super slow like a hivelord, be out in the combat so close.

[Butterrobber202]

Words.

Gameplayer and Balance > Realism/Lore

[JackStorm]

+1 for both sides, but leave the sound of activating so I can do flamer's job with UGL and scare aliums now, make them run from me.