Medbay specialization & specialists

[Sarah_U.]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):
Add medical specialisations/specialists to medbay.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):
It'll lower the work load of doctors by having someone constantly assigned to a duty. Generally improve SULACO medbay threatment as well.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):
Doctors are able to do chemistry and everything yes, but a few roles like nurse and chemist would be useful so that medbay can run even more efficiently.
Generally speaking, all hospitals and medical stations have assistants to assist the doctors. It shouldn't be field medics as they have other duties, but an intern that's there to make a proper triage.
Furthermore, another way to reduce the workload would be to assign someone as a chemist. Certainly chemists and doctors will both have the ability to handle chemicals, but having someone assigned to it will ease the stress during surgery.

Chemist (example description):
He/She have a doctorate in chemicals and all sort of matters related to medical science. He's unable to perform surgery, but can handle patients as good as a doctor would due to his first response training.

Nurse (example description):
He/She have some/no field experience, but she's staffed in medbay to handle the annoying part of it. Keeping patients stable and making sure triage is done well. She handles the floor so that docs have less annoying patients pestering them or dying.

(Sidenote: I'd recommend having the roles locked 'till there's 80+ players online with some code.)

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):
[N/A]

[Edgelord]

While I agree with mostly everything you said, I feel like the medbay dilemma is caused by SSD/shortage of doctors. Having specialists could do more harm than good if you have people in medbay who have very specific jobs that are unable to actually treat the marines.

Neutral

[Surrealistik]

While I agree with mostly everything you said, I feel like the medbay dilemma is caused by SSD/shortage of doctors. Having specialists could do more harm than good if you have people in medbay who have very specific jobs that are unable to actually treat the marines.

Neutral

The Medbay dilemma is really caused by the abundance of fractures and the time it takes to do a typical surgery.

That said I don't think this is a solution.

[Sarah_U.]

I know about the 'Specialization would cause trouble' part, but overall it's why I suggest we lock it for 80+ players... Otherwise it's still a good idea since most often doctors need the helping hand and it'd allow them to RP a tad bit so they'd get less borred.

[forwardslashN]

-1
This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. We lack competent doctors, and we really don't need "special" doctors.

[Disco Dalek]

Someone suggested adding a chemist role a while back. While I personally love the thought of stealing chemistry all for myself, it leads to problems if someone completely new to chemistry (or greytide) takes that role. Now you have someone who is entitled to run chemistry all round and could effectively prevent any useful chems from being made if they're uncooperative.

The real problem is there are simply not enough doctors and equipment for when things start the usual death spiral. It's extremely rare to see a fully staffed medbay where everyone knows what they're doing. Even one bald doctor is enough to cause a major backlog. To that end, I think adding nurses to medbay without removing any doctor slots would be a big help. They could help the same way medics do while the doctors handle surgery. I simply can't stand hearing all the dying patients yelling at me over comms about my priorities while I perform necessary facial reconstructive surgery on Commander Snowflake or during my RP session with some random marine who has an extremely interesting story about how they managed to kill an alien all by themselves.

-1 for chemists
+1 for nurses

[Surrealistik]

Let me just go ahead and quash a rumour.

A lack of Doctors is at best only half the problem.

Beyond that, the primary issue is that surgeries take too long and there's too many of them to perform, and that Medbay often lacks the supplies needed to deal with large amounts of incoming wounded requiring surgery.

You can have as many fucking doctors as you want and it won't make a difference if they don't have the tools they need to operate, but let's assume they do. When shit gets really intense, nothing short of 5 _competent_ doctors all constantly running surgery _minimum_ will suffice (which means you need 6; 1 to do triage and process cloning), and that's assuming you've got a good cryomix that fixes everything but fractures, and Medbots.

How the fuck often are you going to see 6 doctors (including CMO, and assuming this were possible)? Is this a practical expectation? Fuck no. Further, because it's easily the most stressful job in the game overall, that gets even less likely.

The real solution is making surgery less onerous and time intensive, so that doctors have less stress, and that fewer can do more. Giving Medbay spare surgical kits would also constitute an improvement.

[Disco Dalek]

Let me just go ahead and quash a rumour.

A lack of Doctors is at best only half the problem.

Beyond that, the primary issue is that surgeries take too long and there's too many of them to perform, and that Medbay often lacks the supplies needed to deal with large amounts of incoming wounded requiring surgery.

You can have as many fucking doctors as you want and it won't make a difference if they don't have the tools they need to operate, but let's assume they do. When shit gets really intense, nothing short of 5 _competent_ doctors all constantly running surgery _minimum_ will suffice (which means you need 6; 1 to do triage and process cloning), and that's assuming you've got a good cryomix that fixes everything but fractures, and Medbots.

How the fuck often are you going to see 6 doctors (including CMO, and assuming this were possible)? Is this a practical expectation? Fuck no. Further, because it's easily the most stressful job in the game overall, that gets even less likely.

The real solution is making surgery less onerous and time intensive, so that doctors have less stress, and that fewer can do more. Giving Medbay spare surgical kits would also constitute an improvement.

I'm not sure how surgery could be made less time intensive without making it dull. Right now it boils down to cut the guy open -> fix the problem -> close the wound. While I'm still on the fence about not being able to use advanced trauma kits for brain surgery (having to perform brain and eye surgery separately made skull fractures the most annoying injury to deal with, even if you can use meds for the eye damage), it does feel more realistic for critical surgeries to take a lot of time to complete. The only other alternatives I can think of would be decreasing time between surgery steps or removing the RNG from shrapnel.

I'm hoping medbay gets a major facelift in the Sulaco redesign. As you well know, the operating theatres, advanced scanner, and ladder are all in the same little area that quickly gets crowded with tons of standards who have nothing better to do but stand in the worst possible location. I honestly think three doctors and the CMO during the very best case scenario could handle medbay without major issue if the darn thing wasn't the size of a large closet. Medbay simply isn't big enough for 80+ people on the server at once. Add a few more operating theatres and doctor slots and you should be golden.

[Surrealistik]

I'm not sure how surgery could be made less time intensive without making it dull. Right now it boils down to cut the guy open -> fix the problem -> close the wound. While I'm still on the fence about not being able to use advanced trauma kits for brain surgery (having to perform brain and eye surgery separately made skull fractures the most annoying injury to deal with, even if you can use meds for the eye damage), it does feel more realistic for critical surgeries to take a lot of time to complete. The only other alternatives I can think of would be decreasing time between surgery steps or removing the RNG from shrapnel.

I'm hoping medbay gets a major facelift in the Sulaco redesign. As you well know, the operating theatres, advanced scanner, and ladder are all in the same little area that quickly gets crowded with tons of standards who have nothing better to do but stand in the worst possible location. I honestly think three doctors and the CMO during the very best case scenario could handle medbay without major issue if the darn thing wasn't the size of a large closet. Medbay simply isn't big enough for 80+ people on the server at once. Add a few more operating theatres and doctor slots and you should be golden.

Surgery _is_ dull; it's a rote time sink, and there's no saving it without a complete overhaul.

That said, the current system isn't especially realistic, so decreasing the surgery time for each step isn't that big a deal in this regard.

Further, no, I completely disagree; 4 doctors including the CMO aren't sufficient to cover the Medbay at its worst, even assuming you have enough tools for all of them to do surgery, and all of the cryopods are filled to the brim with a perfect mix, and you have medbot support; I've been there, seen it, done it, it's not even close to adequate, especially when you consider one of them is doing full timing cloning and triage/diagnostics/stabilization.

Improving Medbay's layout would help considerably (especially additional, fully equipped ORs, but by itself would be inadequate.

[Disco Dalek]

Surgery _is_ dull; it's a rote time sink, and there's no saving it without a complete overhaul.

That said, the current system isn't especially realistic, so decreasing the surgery time for each step isn't that big a deal in this regard.

Further, no, I completely disagree; 4 doctors including the CMO aren't sufficient to cover the Medbay at its worst, even assuming you have enough tools for all of them to do surgery, and all of the cryopods are filled to the brim with a perfect mix, and you have medbot support; I've been there, seen it, done it, it's not even close to adequate, especially when you consider one of them is doing full timing cloning and triage/diagnostics/stabilization.

Improving Medbay's layout would help considerably (especially additional, fully equipped ORs, but by itself would be inadequate.

I personally still enjoy surgery as it is, though I admittedly seem to enjoy repetitive tasks more than most people.

My concern with lowering the amount of time between surgical steps is surgery might become too easy and too fast (as silly as that may sound). I wouldn't mind seeing a slight decrease in step time, but just for the sake of example, two doctors could handle medbay if the steps were instantaneous (though I know you're not talking about removing step time altogether). It would be a help, but it's an extremely delicate balance.

What I said was mainly speculation if all of medsci worked perfectly in addition to more space in medbay. I have never once seen all of medsci work flawlessly together nor do I ever expect to see it happen. I agree that adding more doctors won't completely solve all of medbay's problems. My point was it would make it a heck of a lot easier if medbay was larger and had more dedicated staff. That's why I think at least having nurses for now would be a huge improvement.

[Warnipple]

This is what CMO's role is for. So he can order someone, usually the researcher, to work on cloning the dead.

[Snypehunter007]

With the new ship in the works, I would like to say: BUMP

[KittyLava]

-1
This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. We lack competent doctors, and we really don't need "special" doctors.

Sorry about not being around doctoring that much as of late, although it's at times to get away from marine salt in medbay. May know the chemistry recipes, surgeries, how to stabilize to diagnosis the patients rather quickly by heart; even a few tricks for diagnosing and treating the marines with unusual cases ICly, like their limbs not wanting to work right away. Which likely is phantom pain most the time, on top the pain interfering with the surgery as they're under at times on anesthetics.

Although getting back back to the topic at hand, don't believe we need med-bay specialized really, as you could reassign one of the two researchers to chemistry duties as your doctors no longer worry about head reattachments to cloning. Now that means you can assign them to assist in triage, FoB duty if they volunteer, or surgery OR assignments; even hanger medbay duty.

Researchers don't have alot to do early on besides some research, so you can get them to assist in some ways; even triage to transportation up to medbay for diagnosis attempts. From there if it requires surgery, print out the paper, give either to the patient or doctor wishing to proceed with the surgery. Late game depends upon RP material and items brought back from marines.

Medbay's workload already decreased by alot recently, however depending upon things in the new ship, room to work with as well; the number of medical personal slots needs adjustment likely.

-1 Personally feel we don't need specialization, more so medical personal staff and proper coordination within the medbay department may be needed. Worse case request a field medic to assist in triage to diagnosis with researcher personal, if you're backed up in surgery with few doctors active. Get the SSD doctors into cryo, rather than leave them to sit/stand in place.

[Snypehunter007]

Sorry about not being around doctoring that much as of late, although it's at times to get away from marine salt in medbay. May know the chemistry recipes, surgeries, how to stabilize to diagnosis the patients rather quickly by heart; even a few tricks for diagnosing and treating the marines with unusual cases ICly, like their limbs not wanting to work right away. Which likely is phantom pain most the time, on top the pain interfering with the surgery as they're under at times on anesthetics.

Although getting back back to the topic at hand, don't believe we need med-bay specialized really, as you could reassign one of the two researchers to chemistry duties as your doctors no longer worry about head reattachments to cloning. Now that means you can assign them to assist in triage, FoB duty if they volunteer, or surgery OR assignments; even hanger medbay duty.

Researchers don't have alot to do early on besides some research, so you can get them to assist in some ways; even triage to transportation up to medbay for diagnosis attempts. From there if it requires surgery, print out the paper, give either to the patient or doctor wishing to proceed with the surgery. Late game depends upon RP material and items brought back from marines.

Medbay's workload already decreased by alot recently, however depending upon things in the new ship, room to work with as well; the number of medical personal slots needs adjustment likely.

-1 Personally feel we don't need specialization, more so medical personal staff and proper coordination within the medbay department may be needed. Worse case request a field medic to assist in triage to diagnosis with researcher personal, if you're backed up in surgery with few doctors active. Get the SSD doctors into cryo, rather than leave them to sit/stand in place.

I've noticed Research actually be completely empty on high pop times cause people just refuse to play them.

[KittyLava]

I've noticed Research actually be completely empty on high pop times cause people just refuse to play them.

Did notice being a researcher recently that marines rarely brought back anything for them, then there was the XO that round that didn't really support providing much, even materials to make grenades quickly. Could be there's bias or not much for them to work with at times, well what seems interesting to them. If that's the case truely, then wouldn't medbay specialization backfire badly later if players aren't happy to go with it.

I'm partly worried if that's the case, many wouldn't find medbay related roles interesting. Especially the nurse as the most that they could do would be triage, handle a lot of salt from the marines, and even have to body scan the patients whilst coordinating with doctors for whom needs what or to be moved in elsewhere. Although it would reduce the doctor's workload somewhat, not sure how many might go with it.

Chemist; the researcher and entirely of medbay all ICly know how to use it, although rarely see a few doctors whom put much effort into medication, combat stims, to compounds really for the marines. With the chem master speed recharging rather quickly, could see that working well for them, yet those interested could see them getting to into it.

Overall still feel it's rather iffy at the moment.

[Jalleo]

Yeah this is more a issue of people are finding it boring too time consuming with surgeries. The solution is probably to let minor surgeries be done automatically via a surgery pod. We have them coded for WO. (Even if you got to build them via doing research)

[Sarah_U.]

Med-pod was told to be a WO-Only thing due to how they're super expensive and advanced in the lore.

[nerocavalier]

Just noticed and going with a solid -1. I've seen rounds where there's only one doctor as they frantically do chemistry and surgery by themselves. If it was specialized, then either Medics don't get fancy chems or marines don't have a surgeon. Specialization is bad because if the surgeon or chemist dies, no one can step in. As it is now, you only need one person who knows what they're doing for medbay to be processed a bit slowly.

As for nurses, really no need. Apply two tricordrazine autoinjectors and drag in to do surgery. There's usually one doctor sitting around since hanger OR isn't as used as much as the main ORs.

[Sarah_U.]

Yea just gonna mention the suggestion was a result of a long discussion and is now very old. It did not age so well XD

[Snypehunter007]

Yea just gonna mention the suggestion was a result of a long discussion and is now very old. It did not age so well XD

Do you wish for this to be closed?

[Sarah_U.]

Aaah, nevermind this last post! I just realised the suggestion was to ADD specialists to the medbay. AKA: Don't lower the amount, but include more people that can complement and add to the general thing.

Reading comments confused me, was busy and just got time to read my own suggestion at last XD

PS: Don't close it, idea still stands.
PPS: READ THE SUGGESTION, DOCTORS DON'T GET A DEBUFF!

[nerocavalier]

Still a -1. There's only one bluespace beaker and it's redundant to add specialists like a chemist when there's only two chemmachines. Adding more people serves no purpose when there isn't enough room for everyone. There's four doctors + the CMO now and three ORs. You really don't want another person to sit around doing nothing.

I will reiterate that nurses serve no purpose if they cannot do surgery seeing that it's not that hard to give your patient some bicaridine and tricordrazine before doing surgery on them.

[Snypehunter007]

Going to run through this with BMC, tomorrow. Please do not post until after Monday (07/03/17).

[Tidomann]

I'm sorry for posting early, but I'm thinking a small redesign of the lower medical layout might help with triage. I'll make a mock design when I get home. The current issue is that marines get dragged into the advanced scanners then congest the area (usually lower scanner) and the waiting line kind of goes into the surgery hall.

The designated emergency doors on the west side would work 100% better if my suggestion to swap ds1 and ds2 took into effect as ds1 is usually the one doing medivacs. This would help doctors actually use the colour coded lines to triage by severity

My only question for part of this redesign is do the ladders need to remain in the same square?