Ultimate Badass B18

[Karmac]

Not gonna lie, I don't feel like B18 really needs this buff, that's just my opinion from playing B18, resin paste fixing helmets was enough of a buff, just don't ever go machete and shield, and don't stand still and expect to not get hugger-spammed after sheer luck allows a Runner to pounce you.

[Butterrobber202]

... SO what you saying is... If I'm a Spec I get Power Armor?

Fuck Yes!
+1

[Toroic]

Not gonna lie, I don't feel like B18 really needs this buff, that's just my opinion from playing B18, resin paste fixing helmets was enough of a buff, just don't ever go machete and shield, and don't stand still and expect to not get hugger-spammed after sheer luck allows a Runner to pounce you.

In my experience it's pretty easy to kill b18 users.

3 huggers and they're vulnerable to hug/decap. Broken limbs tend to slow them down enough they don't get away either.

[Jroinc1]

Well, if they're too slow to get away, maybe they shouldn't be alone with the aliens and should have stuck with their squad?

[Karmac]

In my experience it's pretty easy to kill b18 users.

3 huggers and they're vulnerable to hug/decap. Broken limbs tend to slow them down enough they don't get away either.

>Implying I didn't just say that they're useless versus Runners with huggers.

And yeah, B18 is slow as fuck, it's like being a Crusher, but actual skill is required so you don't just get hugger-spammed to death because aliens don't feel like actually fighting you. Get a macro for pumping the shotgun, take buckshot, better have that riot shield sonny, ruin the day of any alien that thinks targeting you over all the other marines is a good idea. And if a Crusher knocks you down? You better hope the idiot marines realise their standard pulse mags aren't gonna stop you and decide to stop any other alien from getting near you, or else inb4 hugger-spam.

If anything the only buff that the B18 should get is that when you use it in tandem with the riot shield, things that knock you over should just shove you away some tiles, unless of course it's a Crusher running at you faster than a speeding pick-up truck.

As for the broken bones, I took 15 minutes of straight damage in B18 the other day during a charge on the Nexus from LZ1, came out of it with no broken bones from being knocked over and slashed by 4 different aliens including a Queen, Runner, Hivelord and Hunter, took a full-strength Crusher charge and having two mines exploded at my feet because people forget corpses set them off. Now I had all prosthetic limbs, but to be fair 75% of all that damage was to my chest, in fact the only reason I died was because of some AP FF to my chest that punctured my lungs right at the end of the fight. I was probably in Crit for 50% of that entire battle, only used one of my Tricord injectors.

Morale of the story is, don't be seperated from your team, and if you see a Crusher, get the fuck out of its way, then B18 works the way it should.

If you still think it needs a buff, then just keep the suggestion for 'Lock-down Mode' as it would prevent hugger spam from aliens that think you can only put face-huggers on marines that are lying down, but at the very least it would stop you from being knocked over by a single Crusher/Queen and then shot to death by marine AP FF, and give the suit some boots to go with the kit for christ's sake so that aliens don't cheese you and just slash your feet off when you do go into lock-down mode.

[Toroic]

>Implying I didn't just say that they're useless versus Runners with huggers.

And yeah, B18 is slow as fuck, it's like being a Crusher, but actual skill is required so you don't just get hugger-spammed to death because aliens don't feel like actually fighting you. Get a macro for pumping the shotgun, take buckshot, better have that riot shield sonny, ruin the day of any alien that thinks targeting you over all the other marines is a good idea. And if a Crusher knocks you down? You better hope the idiot marines realise their standard pulse mags aren't gonna stop you and decide to stop any other alien from getting near you, or else inb4 hugger-spam.

If anything the only buff that the B18 should get is that when you use it in tandem with the riot shield, things that knock you over should just shove you away some tiles, unless of course it's a Crusher running at you faster than a speeding pick-up truck.

As for the broken bones, I took 15 minutes of straight damage in B18 the other day during a charge on the Nexus from LZ1, came out of it with no broken bones from being knocked over and slashed by 4 different aliens including a Queen, Runner, Hivelord and Hunter, took a full-strength Crusher charge and having two mines exploded at my feet because people forget corpses set them off. Now I had all prosthetic limbs, but to be fair 75% of all that damage was to my chest, in fact the only reason I died was because of some AP FF to my chest that punctured my lungs right at the end of the fight. I was probably in Crit for 50% of that entire battle, only used one of my Tricord injectors.

Morale of the story is, don't be seperated from your team, and if you see a Crusher, get the fuck out of its way, then B18 works the way it should.

If you still think it needs a buff, then just keep the suggestion for 'Lock-down Mode' as it would prevent hugger spam from aliens that think you can only put face-huggers on marines that are lying down, but at the very least it would stop you from being knocked over by a single Crusher/Queen and then shot to death by marine AP FF, and give the suit some boots to go with the kit for christ's sake so that aliens don't cheese you and just slash your feet off when you do go into lock-down mode.

As an aside, I find it pretty disrespectful to see marines continuously refer to crusher as being skill-less.

To the point, you just admitted that the armor is useless against xenos who take advantage of the weak foot armor, though I personally prefer huggers to dehelmet and decap.

Basically, b18 is great against unrobust xenos. But still worse than the SADAR.

[Karmac]

Basically, b18 is great against unrobust xenos. But still worse than the SADAR.

I completely agree with this, but refuse to use it because of the salt it comes with and how overused it is, it's just too generic and power-gamey for me to use.

I've said what I wanted to, so good luck with this suggestion.


inb4 Apop accepts this and gives us it instead of the Flame-Specialist class we were promised ;-;

[CaptainBritton02]

First off. Titanium is not something you'd want to use for armor. It's more brittle than steel and only has the advantage of weighing slightly less. To be viable for long term combat, it'd need to be alloyed with something such as tungsten carbide or a reinforced steel. Which, would definitely make it still pretty heavy.

Second, the weight. The suit's weight should not be an issue if this, as I think it is, would be introduced as a combat exoskeleton. Generally you'd have the armor itself either built around the exoskeleton lattice or at the very least attached to it.

Third. I like the whole genetic modification idea. If this suit were powerful enough and reacted to movement in a similar way to the MJOLNIR armor from Halo, it would require the user to have skeletal and muscular modification to use, else it would quite literally break every bone in the operator's body in the most painful way possible, killing them near instantly from shock.

Fourth. I love the tricord synthesizer idea. It's akin to the newer MJOLNIR models' biomedical foam injectors and tbh it's pretty fucking cool.

+1

[Toroic]

First off. Titanium is not something you'd want to use for armor. It's more brittle than steel and only has the advantage of weighing slightly less. To be viable for long term combat, it'd need to be alloyed with something such as tungsten carbide or a reinforced steel. Which, would definitely make it still pretty heavy.

Second, the weight. The suit's weight should not be an issue if this, as I think it is, would be introduced as a combat exoskeleton. Generally you'd have the armor itself either built around the exoskeleton lattice or at the very least attached to it.

Third. I like the whole genetic modification idea. If this suit were powerful enough and reacted to movement in a similar way to the MJOLNIR armor from Halo, it would require the user to have skeletal and muscular modification to use, else it would quite literally break every bone in the operator's body in the most painful way possible, killing them near instantly from shock.

Fourth. I love the tricord synthesizer idea. It's akin to the newer MJOLNIR models' biomedical foam injectors and tbh it's pretty fucking cool.

+1

Well, as far as the material, here's a quote about marine armor.

The M3 armor is based on the French armed forces Cuirasse de Combat ("fighting armor") and consists of a sandwich of materials molded to form a rigid shell. The outer layer is an ultra-light titanium-alumide alloy designed to provide structural strength and ablative protection against lasers.

I didn't dig any deeper than just assuming b18 is made for the same stuff but more of it.

The suit's weight is an issue if it is only partially assisted. More weight and a greater level of movement assist requires stronger servos in the joints and significantly more power.

As far as being designed for genetically modified humans, that's mostly fluff to explain the frankly crippling slowdown b18 experiences. The additional protection is only questionably useful when compared to the additional protection currently. With proper programming things like the MJOLNIR armor wouldn't cause issues. You'd just need to limit the speed and range that limbs can move, with proper transfer of force from bones to suit supports.

Tricord synthesizer makes a lot of sense because we already have medibots capable of them and chemical synthesizers that regenerate for both drinks and the chem station. Limiting it to three doses means b18 gets less robust over time, as afaik you can't restock the arm autoinjectors.

[Boltersam]

Here's a crazy idea.

What if, replacing a backpack, B18 Specs get an ammo synthesizer they put empty mags into, to fill them up, taking around 30 seconds for each mag.

[Karmac]

Here's a crazy idea.

What if, replacing a backpack, B18 Specs get an ammo synthesizer they put empty mags into, to fill them up, taking around 30 seconds for each mag.

Simply change a few words here and there and Boltersam means BACKPACK AMMO FOR THE MINIGUN!

[Boltersam]

Simply change a few words here and there and Boltersam means BACKPACK AMMO FOR THE MINIGUN!

N-no.

"Psst, Bastion, get the disguise on."

No, but really, it would have the B18 be able to support the squad more, aaaaand possibly be able to refuel the flamethrower so it can be a pseudo-flame suit.

[AVagrant]

Here's a crazy idea.

What if, replacing a backpack, B18 Specs get an ammo synthesizer they put empty mags into, to fill them up, taking around 30 seconds for each mag.

I like this idea a lot, and I also like the suggestion a lot.

+1

[Zalgo]

If anything, the lore can just be modified to make the suit even heavier, like 500-1000 lbs. or so, and include more of a powered exoskeleton underneath that helps shoulder the sheer weight of the titanium plating. Titanium is indeed rather heavy, but also virtually bulletproof, so I figure that bit of fluff could be of assistance.

Also, if the B18 ends up being too overpowered after implementing it, then it could be altered to require a power cell, or even a unique powerpack similar to the smartgun to keep the armor working at optimal levels. Once this power cell/pack ran out, the suit's exoskeleton would be stuck at a fraction of its previous capabilities, slowing down the user considerably. Alongside this, the Tricord Synthesizer would power down, no longer able to keep the operator juiced up, as well as making the leg anchors inoperable. They could disengage if they were already engaged, but wouldn't be able to be redeployed if the internal cell was dead.

This would effectively turn the B18 suit into what it is now, minus the tricord autoinjectors and with a speed debuff added, which would encourage the operator to keep an eye on their power cell's charge and perhaps avoid committing to an engagement if its running low. But, this wouldn't need to be added straight away or anything, just as a way to balance it if it ends up being too strong.

+1

Edit: Also, +1 for the ability to refill mags at like, 1 20-30 second rate per mag. Or, maybe sidearm mags take less time while primary mags take longer. Would shotguns be out of luck, or would you refill them shell by shell?

[Boltersam]

If anything, the lore can just be modified to make the suit even heavier, like 500-1000 lbs. or so, and include more of a powered exoskeleton underneath that helps shoulder the sheer weight of the titanium plating. Titanium is indeed rather heavy, but also virtually bulletproof, so I figure that bit of fluff could be of assistance.

Here come the literal Space Marines.

"FOR THE EMPEROR!", not the wimpy ones we have now.

All we need now is a massive rifle that fires grenades as bullets! And chainswords!

+1

Edit: Also, +1 for the ability to refill mags at like, 1 20-30 second rate per mag. Or, maybe sidearm mags take less time while primary mags take longer. Would shotguns be out of luck, or would you refill them shell by shell?

I figure that mags would have the same time, so it isn't too complicated.

As for shotguns, you'll need the box.

This also means if you find an empty box of incendiaries lying around, you have a full pack of fireball slugs.

[Zalgo]

Here come the literal Space Marines.

"FOR THE EMPEROR!", not the wimpy ones we have now.

All we need now is a massive rifle that fires grenades as bullets! And chainswords!

Nah. The B18 doesn't have full life support systems to survive in toxic environments or the vacuum of space, and it's not directly hooked up to the wearer for pinpoint movement.

Almost, but not quite, battle-brother.

I figure that mags would have the same time, so it isn't too complicated.

As for shotguns, you'll need the box.

This also means if you find an empty box of incendiaries lying around, you have a full pack of fireball slugs.

Fair enough. Still a good idea.

At least there aren't SADAR ammo cases.

[Zhgorin]

+1 If not this, than make B18 free.

[Jroinc1]

make B18 free.

NOPE. It's still preety strong even without the buffs in this thread.

[Karmac]

NOPE. It's still preety strong even without the buffs in this thread.

Agreed

[Jroinc1]

Agreed

Wat.

[CaptainBritton02]

If anything, the lore can just be modified to make the suit even heavier, like 500-1000 lbs. or so, and include more of a powered exoskeleton underneath that helps shoulder the sheer weight of the titanium plating. Titanium is indeed rather heavy, but also virtually bulletproof, so I figure that bit of fluff could be of assistance.

Titanium is not virtually bulletproof. Rolled Homogenous Armor steel takes the cake there. Titanium is actually brittle compared to RHA steel, therefore more of it must be present, making the armor pretty fuckin' heavy. A great alternative is using what is suggested. An alloy of aluminum, titanium, and a stronger metal such as tungsten carbide.

[Zalgo]

Titanium is not virtually bulletproof. Rolled Homogenous Armor steel takes the cake there. Titanium is actually brittle compared to RHA steel, therefore more of it must be present, making the armor pretty fuckin' heavy. A great alternative is using what is suggested. An alloy of aluminum, titanium, and a stronger metal such as tungsten carbide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fBkNIROg4
1 1/4"-1 1/2" of solid titanium seems to handle quite a lot.

RHA is WWII-grade protection for vehicles, as far as I can see when it comes to internet research. Granted it seems it's still used for the frame, but that's not really lending to the protective armor anymore. And, another noteworthy point would be that this RHA was, in fact, used on armored vehicles, not for infantry armor. I'm not sure how well it would protect your average soldier in combat while also being held up by a reasonable exoskeleton.

Something to keep in mind about alloys is that they are just that: alloys. A compromise of two or more metallic substances which sacrifice their base properties to various extents in order to fit the situation, or, much more often, to fit a budget. If you create an aluminum-titanium alloy, then yes, it will be lighter and cheaper, but it's also going to be significantly weaker depending on how much of the final product is aluminum. Mixing a metal with a weaker metal isn't going to make it any stronger, which is worth taking into consideration when designing a body armor set. It does need to be light enough and unrestrictive to allow for movement, but it also has to be able to protect vital body parts.

That's why I brought up the exoskeleton idea in the first place, as it would reasonably allow the heavy protection one would expect from B18 to be worn by a marine while still allowing for decent movement. If the ideas of an ammo synthesis backpack, ground-securing clamps on the boots, and an onboard tricord synthesizer & autoinjector are carried out, a powered exoskeleton would still likely be able to shoulder the weight of this extra equipment, and would fit the design of a failed supersoldier project more. Granted it could probably be fitted with the RHA steel instead, but I'm not sure how heavy that is compared to volume, so I wouldn't be able to make an accurate assumption on whether an exoskeleton could carry it as a reasonable alternative for armored plating.

I'm probably overthinking this too damn much, but I like this kinda stuff.

[CaptainBritton02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fBkNIROg4
1 1/4"-1 1/2" of solid titanium seems to handle quite a lot.

RHA is WWII-grade protection for vehicles, as far as I can see when it comes to internet research. Granted it seems it's still used for the frame, but that's not really lending to the protective armor anymore. And, another noteworthy point would be that this RHA was, in fact, used on armored vehicles, not for infantry armor. I'm not sure how well it would protect your average soldier in combat while also being held up by a reasonable exoskeleton.

Something to keep in mind about alloys is that they are just that: alloys. A compromise of two or more metallic substances which sacrifice their base properties to various extents in order to fit the situation, or, much more often, to fit a budget. If you create an aluminum-titanium alloy, then yes, it will be lighter and cheaper, but it's also going to be significantly weaker depending on how much of the final product is aluminum. Mixing a metal with a weaker metal isn't going to make it any stronger, which is worth taking into consideration when designing a body armor set. It does need to be light enough and unrestrictive to allow for movement, but it also has to be able to protect vital body parts.

That's why I brought up the exoskeleton idea in the first place, as it would reasonably allow the heavy protection one would expect from B18 to be worn by a marine while still allowing for decent movement. If the ideas of an ammo synthesis backpack, ground-securing clamps on the boots, and an onboard tricord synthesizer & autoinjector are carried out, a powered exoskeleton would still likely be able to shoulder the weight of this extra equipment, and would fit the design of a failed supersoldier project more. Granted it could probably be fitted with the RHA steel instead, but I'm not sure how heavy that is compared to volume, so I wouldn't be able to make an accurate assumption on whether an exoskeleton could carry it as a reasonable alternative for armored plating.

I'm probably overthinking this too damn much, but I like this kinda stuff.

RHA is similar to the composition used for modern body armor plates. It originally was made as a vehicular armor, however it was found to be rather useful in plates coated in anti-spalling rubber and held up in load bearing plate carrier vests.

Honestly in the composition there would be no need for aluminum, but a titanium-tungsten carbide alloy would be beneficial as all hell. As you know, tungsten is strong as all fuck and has a high as fuck melting point, the only issue being that it's heavy and hard to shape. By combining it with a lighter and semi-bulletproof metal such as titanium, you could decrease the amount of material needed for the armor, making it lighter overall.

EDIT: As I said in previous posts, I like the exoskeleton idea a fuckton, but I believe there are much better alternatives than straight titanium for armor.

[Zalgo]

RHA is similar to the composition used for modern body armor plates. It originally was made as a vehicular armor, however it was found to be rather useful in plates coated in anti-spalling rubber and held up in load bearing plate carrier vests.

Honestly in the composition there would be no need for aluminum, but a titanium-tungsten carbide alloy would be beneficial as all hell. As you know, tungsten is strong as all fuck and has a high as fuck melting point, the only issue being that it's heavy and hard to shape. By combining it with a lighter and semi-bulletproof metal such as titanium, you could decrease the amount of material needed for the armor, making it lighter overall.

EDIT: As I said in previous posts, I like the exoskeleton idea a fuckton, but I believe there are much better alternatives than straight titanium for armor.

Fair enough. Titanium-Tungsten-carbide would probably be an optimal material, and it'd lend more to the reason why it's restricted to Specialists, since it'd have been more difficult to produce.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

Just...yes. Taking b-18 is semi a decent idea as it stands, but with these suggestion, you'll become what you're supposed to be. The meat shield. You'll be able to provide cover and take damage, to allow the squad to fall back. I also like the splinting via armor, since it'd make it possible for the marine to keep fighting, even though they're in pain. A broken ANYTHING can put someone out of a game, and if you're the squads meatshield, this can sometimes kill your squad if you're stuck getting a bone set.