How To Fix Excessive Xeno Expansion/Pad Camping Mechanically

[Sailor Dave]

This is an interesting idea. I'll give it a +1. It might make xenos stay together a bit more.

[Lucius Jones]

So, why is number 1. Drones expanding the 'hive' with weeds a bad thing that needs to be changed. 2. Lore appropriate, at all, anywhere?

[Casany]

So, why is number 1. Drones expanding the 'hive' with weeds a bad thing that needs to be changed. 2. Lore appropriate, at all, anywhere?

It's bad because they shouldn't be doing it from a lore persoective, and in every aliens thing they ONLY weed the hive

[Derpislav]

It's bad because they shouldn't be doing it from a lore persoective, and in every aliens thing they ONLY weed the hive

If they don't expand they get metarushed. Pick the lesser evil.

[Casany]

If they don't expand they get metarushed. Pick the lesser evil.

Explain to me how that works, please

[Lucius Jones]

Weeds slow down marines, so marines destroy weeds. Without weeds, they have no reason NOT to go to the hive, as they have the same combat advantage there as they do on open ground. If anything, it is better, since the wide open space of the northern river and near table fort gives lots of positives to the ranged weapons they carry, and if xenos die before they get into range because they are also sped UP by weeds, good for the marines. It also doesn't allow resin structures, allowing the defenses to be paltry in comparison to the marines.
So, the aliens would turtle harder than North Korea, and the marines would keep attacking until THEY turtle harder than the UK in 1942.

[Surrealistik]

Weeds slow down marines, so marines destroy weeds. Without weeds, they have no reason NOT to go to the hive, as they have the same combat advantage there as they do on open ground. If anything, it is better, since the wide open space of the northern river and near table fort gives lots of positives to the ranged weapons they carry, and if xenos die before they get into range because they are also sped UP by weeds, good for the marines. It also doesn't allow resin structures, allowing the defenses to be paltry in comparison to the marines.
So, the aliens would turtle harder than North Korea, and the marines would keep attacking until THEY turtle harder than the UK in 1942.

Aliens should be able to build and expand very fast across pretty much all of the northern section, because they're getting a buff to both weed expansion rates, and the cost of weed pods, while their focus _will_ be exclusively on the expansion of the hive, to say nothing of existing weeds. That's a lot of fucking ground to cover, even in the event of a metarush; more ground likely than even the existing set up. The difference? No Xeno rush at the LZs or Hydro.

[Polkjm]

The Queen can't be everywhere, and her main role is to lay eggs. Weed expansion should be left to Drones, so they should have the ability, albeit at a large cost and with a cooldown

They can expand the weeds, they just can't make a nexus across the river

[Sarah_U.]

I'm actually fine with the current mechanics, what you're suggestion would cripple severely aliens trying to quickly invade across ladders and whatnot, making stalemates even worse.

Although I'm relatively fine with the overall idea, so I'll stick to neutral unless a lot less restrictions are put on weeding... (Queen & Hivelord able anywhere for a starter and grass not blocking)

[Surrealistik]

I'm actually fine with the current mechanics, what you're suggestion would cripple severely aliens trying to quickly invade across ladders and whatnot, making stalemates even worse.

Although I'm relatively fine with the overall idea, so I'll stick to neutral unless a lot less restrictions are put on weeding... (Queen & Hivelord able anywhere for a starter and grass not blocking)

If you're going to breach ladders, you should have a Nexus or two ready to go at least. Aliens could get fucked by not coordinating and failing to make sure they have them ready to drop, but that's on them; failure to communicate and align strategy happens; just ask the Marines.

[Bigchilly]

>remove laying weeds anywhere anyway from the hive (queen)

>fixes toxic drone suicide weeding

>fixed combat weeding

>weeds become hella simpler

[Sarah_U.]

If you're going to breach ladders, you should have a Nexus or two ready to go at least. Aliens could get fucked by not coordinating and failing to make sure they have them ready to drop, but that's on them; failure to communicate and align strategy happens; just ask the Marines.

I know what you mean, but either way I'm sticking neutral due to the fact it's both a great change and a pretty severe one. I mostly fear for sullaco aliens being just... Stuck there... Although it'd be great for research. Alien knows it dies if it does anything stupid ;D

Anyway, I'm leaning from -1 and +1 all-over, I'm sticking to neutral, but if the change is made I'm good with it and actually want more things to develop along its course to use this mechanic (Blob vision?!)

[Reuben Owen]

Don't like it. Since it'll take awhile to get anywhere with weeds, there'll be a more powergame-y approach to weeding where they just weed the same spots at the same time every round to maximize their spread quickly, which is boring. Also this would be a indirect buff to flamethrowers, since they can be used to clear almost the entirety of the area south of the river easily. Carriers get an indirect nerf since previously they were the only offensive-ish caste that could weed and they'll have to wait like the other castes. Even if Queen can plant one of these things, she probably won't that often since she has to use all her plasma (which means she'll have it immediately ready for things like the Pad). I like how it gives Marines a stationary target to attack, but this is way too meh for all the changes it'll do.

Might make expansion by making it slower, but when Marines retreat an area (like hydro) Xenos will still up the previously occupied area with weeds. They'll be just as hard for marines to remove as they were previously (might be slightly harder because of the faster growth rate + spread).

I don't really see how this will change Landing Pad camping. Xenos have piss-all to do once marines retreat in force and any weeding active xeno will just pop a node down in front of LZ1/2 (if they don't have max plasma they'll just ask for a transfer) once the planet is clear. And again, they'll be just as hard for marines to remove as they were previously. Even if the marines send the shuttle back ASAP that's still like a few mins. Which they wouldn't, as the whole point of a mass retreat is getting away. And even if no Xeno can currently use the hive nexus planting ability, they'll just have the weed castes go and weed the closest available area to stretch weeds to the camping areas.

-1, won't fix the problem(s)

(Blob vision?!)

Sentient weeds would be cool. Like ghost players could do weeds or something. I dunno.

[Surrealistik]

Don't like it. Since it'll take awhile to get anywhere with weeds, there'll be a more powergame-y approach to weeding where they just weed the same spots at the same time every round to maximize their spread quickly, which is boring. Also this would be a indirect buff to flamethrowers, since they can be used to clear almost the entirety of the area south of the river easily. Carriers get an indirect nerf since previously they were the only offensive-ish caste that could weed and they'll have to wait like the other castes. Even if Queen can plant one of these things, she probably won't that often since she has to use all her plasma (which means she'll have it immediately ready for things like the Pad). I like how it gives Marines a stationary target to attack, but this is way too meh for all the changes it'll do.

Might make expansion by making it slower, but when Marines retreat an area (like hydro) Xenos will still up the previously occupied area with weeds. They'll be just as hard for marines to remove as they were previously (might be slightly harder because of the faster growth rate + spread).

I don't really see how this will change Landing Pad camping. Xenos have piss-all to do once marines retreat in force and any weeding active xeno will just pop a node down in front of LZ1/2 (if they don't have max plasma they'll just ask for a transfer) once the planet is clear. And again, they'll be just as hard for marines to remove as they were previously. Even if the marines send the shuttle back ASAP that's still like a few mins. Which they wouldn't, as the whole point of a mass retreat is getting away. And even if no Xeno can currently use the hive nexus planting ability, they'll just have the weed castes go and weed the closest available area to stretch weeds to the camping areas.

-1, won't fix the problem(s).

It's more about fixing the pad camping/hydro rush (which it does), not precluding pad camping entirely, and making weed spread more organic rather than scatter shot weeds everywere.

And indirectly buffing flamethrowers/nerfing Carriers is not in any way a bad thing.

It'll be easier for Marines to destroy isolated weed clusters; it's the ones that are connected with larger/main weed masses that will be harder to deal with.

[Reuben Owen]

It's more about fixing the pad camping/hydro rush (which it does), not precluding pad camping entirely, and making weed spread more organic rather than scatter shot weeds everywere.

And indirectly buffing flamethrowers/nerfing Carriers is not in any way a bad thing.

It'll be easier for Marines to destroy isolated weed clusters; it's the ones that are connected with larger/main weed masses that will be harder to deal with.

But won't the majority of them be connected with larger masses? The entirety of the caves is a mass by the hour mark. And it'll make it harder for marine rushes towards the hive. Usually because once a marine removes weeds the xeno has to get onto that square to replant. But if they have to be on weeds to make weeds, they can be in the dark and still plant weeds nearby and regain lost ground.

And any weed caste that makes an isolated weed nexus won't have it isolated for long. They'll make sure no one is nearby and probably spread weeds to at least a 10x10 average area (thats assuming they plant 3 nodes + assuming nodes can reach 1 square farther than normal). Which the marines would have to remove IN entirety and destroy the nexus node, otherwise 1 lone weed sqaure can be used to start the whole thing without the hassle of making a nexus.

Lastly this'll make getting weeds up a ladder on the Sulaco a nightmare. Holy.

[Surrealistik]

But won't the majority of them be connected with larger masses? The entirety of the caves is a mass by the hour mark. And it'll make it harder for marine rushes towards the hive. Usually because once a marine removes weeds the xeno has to get onto that square to replant. But if they have to be on weeds to make weeds, they can be in the dark and still plant weeds nearby and regain lost ground.

Hindering marine rushes is actually a good thing. Also mind that there are pros and cons; aliens can no longer combat weed, or drop weeds behind the enemy lines nearly as easily. In exchange they should be able to upkeep weeds near the front more easily.

And any weed caste that makes an isolated weed nexus won't have it isolated for long. They'll make sure no one is nearby and probably spread weeds to at least a 10x10 average area (thats assuming they plant 3 nodes + assuming nodes can reach 1 square farther than normal). Which the marines would have to remove IN entirety and destroy the nexus node, otherwise 1 lone weed sqaure can be used to start the whole thing without the hassle of making a nexus.

Planting nexus' strategically and deliberately is intended, as is emphasizing the importance of removing infestation entirely. Placing a Nexus should be a relatively big deal unless you're a fully upgraded Hivelord.

Lastly this'll make getting weeds up a ladder on the Sulaco a nightmare. Holy.

Nah. If you have a push ready, you should have at least a Nexus or two ready to go, and consolidate your foothold.

[Heckenshutze]

Sentient weeds would be cool. Like ghost players could do weeds or something. I dunno.

Can you explain this in a further way? Sounds coolio. Something to ghost players to do

[KingKire]

I want to rebump this. i think it would be a good addition to have weed sacs only plant on other weed sacs unless the queen/hivelord lays down a weed node.

I also think that it would make a good bed partner with the aliens heal off of plasma suggestion if/when it gets implemented.

[Surrealistik]

Bump.

Also it's worth noting that with shuttle crashing, ladder camping is in no way an issue at all anymore.

[Jalleo]

Why not have each pod slowly take more time to place and/or cost more with max caps on each so hivelords and others can still make them late game? It would mean it is harder to setup a nest on the Sulaco but easier to rebuild if a hive is destroyed meaning you got more pods avaliable.

[CrimsonAerospace]

I actually quite like this idea... Reminds me of Starcraft, where Zerg could only expand more creep where creep already is.

+1