How To Fix Excessive Xeno Expansion/Pad Camping Mechanically

[Surrealistik]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary):

This is a proposal to limit the spread of Xeno weed spread to prevent pad camping without having to legislate against it.

Also to make the spread of weeds more organic from several key vectors/centres rather than spontaneously erupting simultaneously everywhere at once.


Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole):

Obvious.

Also adds a strategic layer to weed placement where your Weed Nexus distribution matters greatly, and encourages coordination around the deployment of Weed Nexus structures.

Lastly, makes the wholesale destruction of Weed Pods and Nexus' important. Leaving even one Pod alive means that the area can be rapidly expanded upon later by the Xenos without needing to expend a valuable Nexus drop.


Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Standard Weed Pods are changed such that they can only be built on existing weeds. Further, because this is true, their cost should be reduced (perhaps to 50 plasma?), and the weeds should probably expand somewhat more quickly, and have a slightly increased spread radius (perhaps 1 more tile?).

Queen/Empress, Hivelord and Drones gain the ability to place a Weed Nexus structure that can be built anywhere.

A Weed Nexus requires maximum plasma, has a 15 minute cooldown for Queens/Empresses (20 minutes for Drones, 10 for Hivelords). This dank Weed Nexus always starts on cooldown during round start, or when evolving to a form that can plant a Nexus from one that cannot. Each upgrade reduces the cooldown by 10% (of the unadjusted cooldown time) for Drones, 15% for Queens/Empresses and 20% for Hivelords.

A Weed Nexus is a regenerating weed spawner that spreads weeds in a significantly larger area and at a faster rate than a standard Weed Pod; this is the only the method of spreading weeds to a new area without existing weed infrastructure.


Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

Minor coding changes. Spriting for Weed Nexus and animations.

[Eenkogneeto]

Hell on earth for weeding LV.
Even worse on ice map.
Probably work fine on big red though.

[Surrealistik]

I could see extending the ability to Drones, with a higher cooldown (20 minutes), and perhaps a lower cooldown for Hivelords (10 minutes; makes sense since they have an evolutionary loop they have to jump through first). You would need to pick your weed locations wisely, which I think is a good thing.

[Eenkogneeto]

I dont like it primarily because one incindiary grenade would be equal to 20 minutes of time for a drone, and you wouldn't be able to weed the river anymore. etc. I dont hate it enough to say im against it though.

[Surrealistik]

I dont like it primarily because one incindiary grenade would be equal to 20 minutes of time for a drone, and you wouldn't be able to weed the river anymore. etc. I dont hate it enough to say im against it though.

Generally you should be surrounding it with resin walls and such to protect the thing. It's also reasonably durable and regenerates health; could be tweaked so that it requires more than one incendiary to destroyed, but I think protecting it with 2 layers of resin should be enough.

[Renomaki]

I'm honestly for a more gradual growth of weed expansion, one that forces drones to think instead of carelessly spray shit everywhere and be rewarded for it.

It isn't like it would be that hard, just let a node grow to max, then slap another node on the edge of the weeds and let it continue to grow, while in the meantime working away on already grown weed to fortify the area.

Meanwhile, expansions outside of the hive will require more thought and effort to do, one that can't just be done carelessly and easily. If you wanted to expand out of the caves (or wherever you were set up at on map start), you'd need an organized push to do it.

Because xenos wouldn't be blizting the fuck out of the map and spamming weeds everywhere, instead focusing on setting up their side of the map to avoid wasting plasma on half-assed outposts, marines would have a harder time justifying metarushes and rounds can move along at a more steady pace, with a proper buildup instead of a sudden "Oh shit, we got aliens, lets LIGHT EM UP".

And of course, it'll make weeds all the more valuable now instead of expendable.

[SUPERMAN112]

I like the idea, I think a range around a pod would be good, like two pods can't be placed (just throwing a random number here, someone can come up with an actual one) say 10 tiles within each-other, then put on a timer slightly less than what you suggested, maybe around 5min for a drone and 2-3 for a hivelord, maybe going to 30sec-0sec for an ancient hivelord. the range would require strategic placement of weeds and the cool-down would prevent rapid mid combat weed dropping. also i'll give this a +1

[Surrealistik]

I like the idea, I think a range around a pod would be good, like two pods can't be placed (just throwing a random number here, someone can come up with an actual one) say 10 tiles within each-other, then put on a timer slightly less than what you suggested, maybe around 5min for a drone and 2-3 for a hivelord, maybe going to 30sec-0sec for an ancient hivelord. the range would require strategic placement of weeds and the cool-down would prevent rapid mid combat weed dropping. also i'll give this a +1

5 min for a drone and 2-3 for a Hivelord is too short and forgiving; allows Xenos to place Nexuses too readily and quickly, allowing for rapid seeding of weeds throughout the map. Per the numbers proposed in the OP, it is possible for the aliens to produce an outpost near marine landing, but it would be pretty risky unless they happen to have an especially slow deployment.

I don't mind the cooldowns being reduced for upgraded Xenos however, because it takes a considerable amount of time to acquire that upgrade.

[SUPERMAN112]

5 min for a drone and 2-3 for a Hivelord is too short and forgiving; allows Xenos to place Nexuses too readily and quickly, allowing for rapid seeding of weeds throughout the map. Per the numbers proposed in the OP, it is possible for the aliens to produce an outpost near marine landing, but it would be pretty risky unless they happen to have an especially slow deployment.

I don't mind the cooldowns being reduced for upgraded Xenos however, because it takes a considerable amount of time to acquire that upgrade.

but for establishing a good hive and getting everything weeded north of the river 20min is punishingly slow at round start, a good compromise could be the timer is reduced the closer a xeno is to the queen, so that way far off xenos would get long weed planting times (so nexus cannot be weeded quickly) while those closer to the queen would have much faster weed clocks and would be able to establish a good hive to nest hosts/defend attacks.

[Polkjm]

+1 This is a kind of nerf to xenos I could get behind. However, the spreading of weeds should be faster even with pods to compensate for it. It would add a really awesome fear factor to the existence of weeds since they don't pop from nowhere. When you see weeds you know they're coming: It slowly creeps up to your defenses while you try desperately to slash them off.

[genjufens]

I like the idea but i don't like the timing. One marine can take one knife and click a tile once and that weed is gone. So even just two marines with no ranged weapons can rid a 3x3, 5x5, even a 7x7 area in almost less than a minute. And a resin wall can take about 3-6 bullets depending on the type before its gone. So I imagine tests of this using somethign like a 20 min timer would just end in the marines utterly wrecking the hive once they found it, though it might take longer. Whenever theres an actual full force of marines I have seen them take what took an hour to build reduced to a barren non weeded cave in 4-6 minutes. So I just think the timing would need to be greatly altered or the strength of the actual resin itself altered. A great idea though. +1 with contingency on timing.

[Lucius Jones]

-1 this would be a large nerf for the xenos, and they are already nerfed to shit. One person with a machete would destroy so much of a drones work, if you want less weeds maybe suggest they have less health.

[Boltersam]

-1 this would be a large nerf for the xenos, and they are already nerfed to shit.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.
Xenos are ridiculously strong at the moment, and have a massive winrate. This is a relatively minor nerf in the grand scheme of things, only meaning slightly slower expansion. If anything, they need a nerf like this.

[Polkjm]

In my eyes this is a nerf that would almost help the xenos, forcing them to play more carefully

[Surrealistik]

but for establishing a good hive and getting everything weeded north of the river 20min is punishingly slow at round start, a good compromise could be the timer is reduced the closer a xeno is to the queen, so that way far off xenos would get long weed planting times (so nexus cannot be weeded quickly) while those closer to the queen would have much faster weed clocks and would be able to establish a good hive to nest hosts/defend attacks.

It would probably be too resource intensive as it would require another continual check to be added. Beyond that, it probably wouldn't work in concept as the Queen often participates in LZ rushing in the first place by spamming eggs nearby. I would increase the spread rate and decrease the cost of basic weed pods, but I think the cooldowns as stated in the OP are about correct.

[Damarik]

+1

At present, a weed-pod's max growth is a 4 tile circle, with 5 tile edges.
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WWWWW Like so. They take approx. 30-45 sec to fully grow, and cost 75 plasma. You're suggesting we make it impossible for Drones to plant anywhere but already weeded tiles? I like it. It'll keep the hive from expanding too fast and having Drones weeding where they shouldn't be. In terms of both round length and realism, there's no reason a drone should be weeding the river 20 minutes into the round. Nor the barrens. Weed the caves. Build the Hive, until you've got a Hivelord. Let them take care of the far-out expansion.

[Derpislav]

It could be made into a "spire" making it immune to an incendiary grenade, but it could be shot from afar, not destroying, but disabling it. A xeno would need to spend time repairing it, and a marine would have to get close with a knife to finish destroying it.
It could also generate walls around itself slowly.

[Snypehunter007]

It could be made into a "spire" making it immune to an incendiary grenade, but it could be shot from afar, not destroying, but disabling it. A xeno would need to spend time repairing it, and a marine would have to get close with a knife to finish destroying it.
It could also generate walls around itself slowly.

That is actually a pretty cool idea.

[Jakers457]

Make it so certain hive based castes, probably of a higher tier can place 'core pods' which you can build out from. So if the xenos want to set up a new base of operations, their high ranker can shit out a core pod for the sub hive.

[Polkjm]

This whole thread sounds seriously awesome. Anything suggested so far sounds great. Perhaps give this power to hivelords and queens but not to drones? This would give more use to the hivelord caste.

[Damarik]

This whole thread sounds seriously awesome. Anything suggested so far sounds great. Perhaps give this power to hivelords and queens but not to drones? This would give more use to the hivelord caste.

Yeah. Make this ability T2 and above. Drones should not be outside the main hive, unless absolutely needed. And, if another Hivelord is required because one died, the drones are availabe for it.

In tandem with thus, I would remove the drone maturity block from hivelord, the same way it is with the queen. Leave it on the Carrier, but remove from hivey.

[Lucius Jones]

If you want a idea, look up something in a game called Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead. They have spires like that in the game, forgot what they where called though. Damn. From Lovecraftian culture.

[Surrealistik]

This whole thread sounds seriously awesome. Anything suggested so far sounds great. Perhaps give this power to hivelords and queens but not to drones? This would give more use to the hivelord caste.

I'd prefer if Drones have it albeit at a prohibitive cooldown, because aliens should not be locked out of putting down these things if they have no Hivelords and no one can evolve to T2; they're too critical.

[Polkjm]

I'd prefer if Drones have it albeit at a prohibitive cooldown, because aliens should not be locked out of putting down these things if they have no Hivelords and no one can evolve to T2; they're too critical.

But the queen would have the ability, so you would always have the ability if needed. (If you don't have a queen, it makes sense that you're fucked)

[Boltersam]

But the queen would have the ability, so you would always have the ability if needed. (If you don't have a queen, it makes sense that you're fucked)

The Queen can't be everywhere, and her main role is to lay eggs. Weed expansion should be left to Drones, so they should have the ability, albeit at a large cost and with a cooldown