Sulaco Crash Breach (Atmos discussion) (Poll Added)

[northcote4]

Issue with breaching from my observation right now is that its pretty much game over instantly.

Its too difficult for marines to battle atmos and aliens. Xenos will eventually spread the atmos and acid everything ruining any marine defenses.

It completely destroys and ruins the end game of the sulaco siege. Xenos already have a huge bonus of crushing marines with rasputin and bypassing all defenses. Its even toughe when they land and breach the entire area killing even more marines.

Such as it is, I have to agree with Feweh.

Don't get me wrong, I love the mechanic, but from a gameplay point of view it really doesn't have any realistic level of counterplay.

The area where the Rasputin strikes has both a vented atmosphere and is filled with xenomorphs. Both of these things make it essentially impossible to fix the breach. Any attempts to simply seal of the area are countered by way of xenomorphs being xenomorphs- they melt their way out, spreading the breach.
Further still is the fact that the entire Sulaco only contains roughly 5 space suits, including the low-pressure suit found in Telecomms. Thus, even IF you manage to organise the entire marine force with oxygen masks they'll inevitably die to the pressure damage.

The breaching aspect of the Rasputin crash is one of those mechanics that takes away player agency. And though it was well intended and the engineer in me weeps to say this: I believe it must go for the benefit of all.

[Gentlemanly_headcrab]

Late to the party but I want to voice my opinion on the matter; the breaching is an issue as it makes an entire section of the ship alien territory and uninhabitable by marines. And yes you can argue the ideal that 'We have space suits' that get instantly ripped off by huggers and provide no armor for marines from any attack. More than one round has been aliens camping on the lower deck in their bubble because marines can't gather enough suits to go down. Sulaco siege is useless when the marines are pushed back by the aliens just opening doors along the way forward emptying the rooms.

[Crab_Spider]

There's a shield generator in Engineering storage, yet, no one bothers activating them.

[TastyCrabLegs]

At the point of the shuttle hitting and breaching the sully, I have no idea why anyone would see issue.
The game is over and the marines have lost at this point.
It's just a question of who dies last.
I can understand the salt from not living because no O2, but is it really that important when you are just gonna get slashed to death a few moments later anyway?

Leave it as is. No reason to change it

[Jaketeaking]

the breaching is an issue as it makes an entire section of the ship uninhabitable by marines. And yes you can argue that 'We have space suits and oxygen masks' that get instantly ripped off by huggers and provide no armor for marines from any attack. Sulaco siege is useless when the marines are pushed back by the aliens just opening doors along the way forward emptying the rooms.

Essentially what headcrab said, just edited slightly to suit my needs
Marines cant camp brief anymore, theres a lot of challenge just from that being removed, and if the rasp does land in brief, thats basically the entire upper deck lost to atmos

[Jaketeaking]

There's a shield generator in Engineering storage, yet, no one bothers activating them.

would be meta. why activate it? no chance of meteors

[nerocavalier]

There's a shield generator in Engineering storage, yet, no one bothers activating them.

You'd have to take said shield generator into that breached area full of xenos in order to activate it since they only cover space tiles.

Easier said than done.

Unless you're talking about the impenetrable walls one in which case they can be melted and do not block atmos.

[Aetsuki]

Yes, breaches are realistic. However, this should be gameplay over reality. We don't allow breaches because they depressurize the Sulaco entirely and get spread around. Having to wear space suits is an added annoyance, as it takes away part of your armor, and suits can get breached, leading to needing a new suit. With FF and Xeno attacks, suits can get punctured easy. Atmos victories are just obnoxious.

[Eenkogneeto]

I seriously have come to despise the breaches the rasputin and pod cause after extended contact. Not because when the entire hive attacks and swarms it makes the marines lose harder, on the contrary, the entire reason I've started to hate it is when the last two aliens hide in the wreckage and are basically unreachable to the marines due to nigh instantaneous unconsciousness and crit due to low pressure. I have seen time and time again 4-5 xenos ride up and then hold off marines outnumbering them 6-1 simply because of the pressure.

[Swagile]

Maybe if marines had combat hardsuits in the armory and the bridge this wouldn't be so bad, since rasp hits either or.

[Xurphorus]

Here is my take on the Shuttle Crashing into the Sulaco, I was honestly Okay with it due to the fact that it made /sense/ but what bothers me is the placement of certain crash points, like medbay, I am concerned about how in the world does the Rasp pry its way into the heart of medbay which is basically on the other end of the Sulaco. I could understand places that lead out towards space from the port or starboard(Idk which ever is the left side of the ship from the fore) but when it crashes in places that completely don't make sense then I'll get a little salty, or a lot. I wouldn't say remove it, but I do agree with reworking it to make it better, cause right now it sucks atmos and all.

[golfer45]

I dont think adding space suits is the solution. breach needs to be removed. Even is marines have suits, the following happens. Space suite helmets dont protect against huggers so marines are at a disavantage, two atmos firelocks go down slowing movment around the ship.

[Houlihan]

The crashing itself is a cool mechanic.

The atmo fuckery breaching entails isn't. Dying in 15 seconds because there's nowhere to run to without being able to do any actual fighting is extremely frustrasting. The random crash is punishing enough because there's no real way to "spawncamp" giving xenos the time necessary to deploy and wreck the random onlookers.

Now if the breaching and dying to atmo is a feature, then remove the space suit and the emergency shutters so we can get it over with faster.

[Swagile]

The crashing itself is a cool mechanic.

The atmo fuckery breaching entails isn't. Dying in 15 seconds because there's nowhere to run to without being able to do any actual fighting is extremely frustrasting. The random crash is punishing enough because there's no real way to "spawncamp" giving xenos the time necessary to deploy and wreck the random onlookers.

Now if the breaching and dying to atmo is a feature, then remove the space suit and the emergency shutters so we can get it over with faster.

that or have combat hardsuits available to all marines with one location in upper deck and one location in bottom deck

if not, then atmos just kills everyone without xenos having to do ANYTHING

literally xenos just watched us die in escape a round ago without moving a muscle and i just rushed them anyway knowing id die because "lol atmos"

[Gorglol]

Dying to atmos sucks, I think everything should be designed with gameplay in mind. We can just throw realism out the window imo, considering that the aliens survive the rapid deacceleration from crashing into a warship in high enough speed to penetrate the hull.

[solidfury7]

While this is lore friendly, it really is a unfun mechanics which often ruins the threat of the aliens.

Instead its more people running around trying to find oxygen tanks and slowly dying.

vs

Last stand with your comrades you spent 2 hours fighting with.

I know which I prefer.

[dadols]

Why not to let the Crew know where the shuttle is goin to hit (not the precise spot, just the area)? I mean this is the Sulaco a big Advanced ship, and knows for sure from what and where is getting hit from...

So the crew is goin to get ready, they`ll place some "Barriers" in that area, and wait for the hit...

[solidfury7]

Poll is closed yet a lot of people haven't really inputted on this.

Requesting for it to be reopened.

[Egorkor]

Alright, so I got to see the new system in action so.
I don't think it's good as it is, because a 100% breach chance means the ship is literally fucked the moment aliens set foot onto it. Yeah you can argue about 'muh gameenders' but as it is marines can win a game on the ship, even if they're outnumbered as fuck and simply grit their teeth and use skill to win that shit, or when they retreat with 40 people still being topside and cheese themselves a win. Just like aliens. With the system in place right now they can't even have a fighting chance, because the pressure will kill everyone regardless of anything they do. As for the aliens and their 'gameender', they can loophole out of it fairly easy by having a drone evolve to the queen. And even if they don't have a drone they can infect a human and have a larva and avoid that. Humans obviously can't, even with more pressure suits being added because they're squishy as fuck and will break from a single slash or a bullet, so it really isn't gonna change anything but add more salt.
The aliens can also abuse this mechanic by rushing the sulaco early on, killing everyone topside and breaching everything and then have the planetside marines killed. You don't even need a full hive, just go topside, melt some walls and there - here's your win.
As such I suggest you either remove the breaching chance or lower it to 5-10% so it'd still be a feature if you really want it that bad but it'd not fuck marines over every round with a fuckload of salt ensuing and people asking questions in dsay. You could say that 'hey muh realism muh breach thru da shipp in spehssss' and I'm just gonna say that realism vs fun is an old topic that's been discussed countless times in the suggestions forum and it barely is applicable. Besides I'd imagine that dev and staff going the way that will make less people salty and angry is better for the server and the community as a whole rather than just leaving it as is and causing more shitstorms.

[Bigchilly]

Alright, so I got to see the new system in action so.
I don't think it's good as it is, because a 100% breach chance means the ship is literally fucked the moment aliens set foot onto it. Yeah you can argue about 'muh gameenders' but as it is marines can win a game on the ship, even if they're outnumbered as fuck and simply grit their teeth and use skill to win that shit, or when they retreat with 40 people still being topside and cheese themselves a win. Just like aliens. With the system in place right now they can't even have a fighting chance, because the pressure will kill everyone regardless of anything they do. As for the aliens and their 'gameender', they can loophole out of it fairly easy by having a drone evolve to the queen. And even if they don't have a drone they can infect a human and have a larva and avoid that. Humans obviously can't, even with more pressure suits being added because they're squishy as fuck and will break from a single slash or a bullet, so it really isn't gonna change anything but add more salt.
The aliens can also abuse this mechanic by rushing the sulaco early on, killing everyone topside and breaching everything and then have the planetside marines killed. You don't even need a full hive, just go topside, melt some walls and there - here's your win.
As such I suggest you either remove the breaching chance or lower it to 5-10% so it'd still be a feature if you really want it that bad but it'd not fuck marines over every round with a fuckload of salt ensuing and people asking questions in dsay. You could say that 'hey muh realism muh breach thru da shipp in spehssss' and I'm just gonna say that realism vs fun is an old topic that's been discussed countless times in the suggestions forum and it barely is applicable. Besides I'd imagine that dev and staff going the way that will make less people salty and angry is better for the server and the community as a whole rather than just leaving it as is and causing more shitstorms.

This, topic should be reopened again:

Aliens can attack the human hive (The Sulaco) in a short span of time, very quickly and screw over and kill all the humans onboard instantly.

Humans can attack the alien hive very slowly and in a long period of time, awhile aliens can just respawn in hidden larva areas, little risk for the aliens.

[Swagile]

You forgot to mention the fact that aliens are not hindered by building / item restrictions on Sulaco like Marines are.

You can't use mines / SADAR nor can you early build due to meta rules when protecting Sulaco.

Xenos have none of these restrictions except queen can't wall off LZ1 / LZ2 and raid immediately. But once they land, everything is fair game.

[Feweh]

My biggest gripe with the whole Breaching is that is removes a fun element of CM and replaces it with a battle against arguably our worst element, atmos.

[Karmac]

I don't bother making it up to the Sulaco much anymore and even if I do, making defenses is something I'm even LESS likely to do, as the randomness of the shuttle crash has a good chance of ruining whatever plan I had anyway. And for those people that are thinking "just fortify engineering" A. That's metagaming B. That's boring as fuck to do EVERY SINGLE ROUND.

[MedicInDisquise]

I don't know if this is still a subject, but here's my Two Cents: Crashing is fine. However, RANDOM crashing isn't.

In practice, this is akin to not knowing which of the Sulaco will be randomly depressurized, gibbed, and xeno'd. How is that fun?

Remove the random crashing OR give an alert to what's going to be destroyed so you can plan for it. That way you can plan around the depressurization and destruction before it actually happens.

Also, I don't know if this changed, but if the Medbay shuttle crashing location still exists, remove it. That just sounds like a completely bad idea.

[Jroinc1]

Has crash breaching quietly been removed? Haven't seen it happen in a while...