How a common marine cannot use a sniper rifle, smartgun, at4, ect ect.

[Bran232]

This idea that a common marine would be unable to use a sniper rifle, or other special issue equipment is silly. When it comes to a high caliber rifle, just about anyone familiar with firearms would be able to use it effectively, especially god-damn marines. High caliber rifles are nothing new or special, they used to be issued en-mass to millions of common ground combatants. Onto SADARS, they're nothing special either, sure, a common civilian would have no fuckin' clue on how to use it, but a marine whom has gone through boot camp would have been introduced to the weapon, and taught the mechanics of how to operate it, and with the USCM being the follow up the USMC, I'd bet they'd train their grunts in the use of the SADAR, just as the marines are trained how to use the at4. Its really nothing to incredibly complex or hard for a trained marine to use. The smartgun is a sophisticated piece of hardware, over engineered, but again, user friendly. Again, no simple civilian would be able to pick it up and use it, but a marine, whom was trained in boot camp on a multitude of weapon systems, would be able to wield it just fine, be effective and deadly.

[northcote4]

I'm not speaking for the staff team when I say this, but this is my understanding.

Reason #1, first and foremost: Game balance reasons. When any average joe marine was able to pick up any weapon, aliens would routinely get their asses beat from what I've seen, as when Specialist Chromedome got tackled, PFC McBaldie would 360 noscope a Queen with an AT rocket. If anyone can use these weapons, it kinda makes the specialist redundant, to boot.

And onto other things:
Sniper rifle? I guess you could make a case for range-finding techniques, though I'm not sure of how fancy the technology is.
SADAR? True, it's a fire and forget weapon. Push of a button as far as I can tell.
Smartgun? Apparently they are actually quite clunky and screwy. The variant that we use, the M56, is particularly so, and did in fact require additional training to use. It was the latrer M57 variant that was use-friendly to the point of any average marine being able to use it.

[Karmac]

Just so you know this has been argued about a lot already, so I doubt you'll get any new opinions here.

[Crab_Spider]

I agree with nortcote4, it sorts out the balance and prevents people from stealing specs' only or primary weapons. B18, A rule like this helps in preventing common joes from robbing wounded specs, accidentally killing or injuring someone trying to figure out how to use the gear properly (unless you have B18 of course), or just wasting the ammo for that gear. What specs have is all they have, some load outs don't have ammo rigs and the ones that do would require switching that ammo out and ditching or even worse, storing in your backpack.

[Dolth]

Well, I'll just point out the fact no one ever respect that rule. I am not including myself but how many times I've seen the following message from command/SL : "Hey, grab the sadar, spec died."
On an other hand, I can understand how balance justify the rule, and RP-wise, smartgun might be the only weapon I'd agree a grunt couldn't use.

[Casany]

Well, I'll just point out the fact no one ever respect that rule. I am not including myself but how many times I've seen the following message from command/SL : "Hey, grab the sadar, spec died."
On an other hand, I can understand how balance justify the rule, and RP-wise, smartgun might be the only weapon I'd agree a grunt couldn't use.

Usually when the SL or command asks that, they intend for the person to only bring it sulaco side so an SL can use it, or another spec can

But I've never heard command or my SL give an order like that in my year of playing...

[Enceri]

Usually when the SL or command asks that, they intend for the person to only bring it sulaco side so an SL can use it, or another spec can

But I've never heard command or my SL give an order like that in my year of playing...

I've never seen a specific order either, but I just assumed it was common sense to grab dead spec' s gear to bring to a SL or to Sulaco.

[slc97]

Multiple reasons this will never change.

1. If every PFC has a spec weapon, the whole balance we work to preserve is out the window.

2. Most of these would require special training to use. The military does not just hand out a sniper rifle to every average Joe. Trained and proven marksmen act as sniper and spotter teams. As for the SADAR, every average Joe in the military isn't just carrying around a rocket launcher. These would usually only be given to people with special heavy weapons or demolition training. The smartgun would also require heavy weapons training.

3. Like Northcote mentioned, redundancy is a factor. The specialist is a specialist for a reason. He has training in this. If every marine can just pick up a spec weapon and go to town on xenos, then what's the point of the specialist to begin with?

[Feweh]

Balance reasons and to maintain Medium RP

[Dolth]

I've never seen a specific order either, but I just assumed it was common sense to grab dead spec' s gear to bring to a SL or to Sulaco.

Nah, was speecificly said to take and use it. I denied, had flamethrower and rifle, but yeah. That happens.

[Casany]

Nah, was speecificly said to take and use it. I denied, had flamethrower and rifle, but yeah. That happens.

It must be rare then. If you were an SL though he was probably asking you to take it because only specs and SLs can use spec weapons

[Renomaki]

As much as games make it seem like a simple matter, IRLwise troops have to take a lot of classes on the operation of certain weapons. One does not simply get a gun and is expected to do well with it. Even the most basic firearm requires an understanding of how to use it and care for it.

It could be assumed that not all the grunts on the ship have taken classes on the proper operation of weapons such as the sniper rifle or B18 armor, and thus can't be trusted with it. And yes, I'd assume you would need to have training to use B18 armor, since if I am correct, it is more than just a heavier suit of armor.. It has little do-hickys in it too in the form of tricord injectors that you can activate.

And, lets be even more real... In real life, shooting a gun accurately is not easy to do, as I myself learned. You gotta do so much fiddling and adjusting at times, and you have to know the range of your ammo and wind resistance... Shooting cans can sometimes be a bit trickier than one would imagine.

[CeSiumShark]

You'd be surprised how difficult it is to properly handle these kinds of weapons.

With a sniper rifle, you have to take in account your heartbeat, how hard you are breathing, the wind, the range, zeroing in, your stance, etc. You have to do a huge amount of goddamn math on the go just to take a single shot accurately.

For the SADAR, take a look at this: https://youtu.be/3K_qt7ardBo?t=1h7m57s

This is just getting a rocket launcher ready. I know the SADAR model might be different, but most rocket launchers are like this.

A simple marine probably wouldn't know all those steps, unlike an actual AT soldier.

As for the smart gun, there's a huge amount of extra gear you have to wear just to use it, not to mention the weight of the actual thing.

The only specialist weapon that marines could use well without prior knowledge is probably the flamethrower.

[MrJJJ]

Like many said, balance reasons, but there is a few weapons you would never be able to use logically anyway

B18: Super heavy, requires proper training and movement, might end up killing you without able to properly handle it and strenght
Sniper: Lot's of complicated math to hit anything, let alone sheer recoil
Smartgun: Uses special armor to balance it out, for which you also kind of need training
GL: Math once more
SADAR: SHEER WEIGHT!!! and position to properly handle it so it doesn't end up knocking you in the face after firing.

I think...

[OatzAndHoes]

As others have said it's been argued to death and it comes down to balance reasons. The smartgun and B18 are the only systems with an RP reason to not be usable, but pretty much every other weapon would be usable RP wise. I'll admit that I have no experience with the marine training system(if someone who does wants to chime in be my guest), but in the Infantry School in Canada we are trained with grenade launchers and recoilless rifles/rocket launchers. As for sniper rifles a person with little to no experience/training with long distance shooting wouldn't be nearly as accurate or precise as a trained sniper. However ingame you don't really seem to be engaging targets more than a couple hundred meters, so wind speed/direction wouldn't have much of an impact unless you're making 400+ meter shots or in the middle of a windstorm.

tl;dr RPwise marines should be able to effectively use half the spec weapons, but that doesn't make for good balance.

[Dolth]

Tbh I doubt any of you ever used a gun. Your bs with maths works if you shoot a sniper rifle over LONG distances. Assault rifle with ironsight : 200 - 400m. Using a scope makes shit incredibly easier espacially when. In cm. You shoot at 100m maximum.

Regarding sadar, meh idk. I know French corporals and above gets to learn how to use at4cs but thats a bit different.

[Scrat505]

Not sure why this was bumped. A good part of it is balance, which most of the time takes priority over lore.

[Crab_Spider]

Not sure why this was bumped. A good part of it is balance, which most of the time takes priority over lore.

Why not just rework the spec weapons to be more complex but still fulfilling the same purpose.

[Scrat505]

Not a dev, but id think because it's entirely pointless to devote time coding in extra complications because people need to debate the lore or realism behind OOC rules.

[dylanstrategie]

We're already went through this time and time again. Boots can't use specialist weaponry. Only Specialists can use specialist weaponry

The reason for this is game balance (Specs become redundant if any boot can grab a smartgun and spray down everything), realism (it's damn hard to fire a sniper rifle pinpoint accurate with minimal marksman training, or shoot a minigun you never handled before without falling on your ass) and general game quality (again, boots don't steal the dead Spec's stuff)

[Symbiosis]

We're already went through this time and time again. Boots can't use specialist weaponry. Only Specialists can use specialist weaponry

The reason for this is game balance (Specs become redundant if any boot can grab a smartgun and spray down everything), realism (it's damn hard to fire a sniper rifle pinpoint accurate with minimal marksman training, or shoot a minigun you never handled before without falling on your ass) and general game quality (again, boots don't steal the dead Spec's stuff)

Let them equip the weapons… But enable the opposite of IFF. Only friendlies are wounded by the weapons.

[MrJJJ]

Wasn't this made ID-locked instead?

[Toroic]

There are a couple gameplay issues that arise if anyone can use spec weapons.

Looting specs for gear/letting them die on marine side becomes appealing, and it forces xenos to aggressively kill and hide the corpses of anyone who touches a sadar. Neither of these is a good thing.

[Daman453]

Honestly roling back the spec weapon thing might bring back some balence. It's not often you see a standard pick up a SADAR or sniper before the rules being put in because of the specs keeping them. I even see marines give back spec weapons to spec before the rules. Sure, this might increase salt levels for xenos by 24% but it's worth a shot.

[Dolth]

You do realizes spec weapons can be disolved and are only usable by a single person. When ANY aliens can upgrade to god-tier and ANY aliens can be T3 (mostly more than the amount of specs who are supposed to counter T3), constantly and again as soon as another T3 dies?

Honestly? Your excuse is 'gameplay/ballance issue' ? I call bullshit.