Fog Mechanics *Discussion*

[elantzb]

I'll post a general discussion thread about that RP Guide in a few minutes here.

[Swagile]

Fog is two things.

Its a buff to both sides, since Xenos start with Mature T3's the moment fog lifts, and its a buff to marines because they have a full FOB made at Hydro the moment fog lifts instead of fighting xenos while building.

Its also a debuff to xenos because Queen can no longer use the Tunnel to bypass the fog, forcing the game into this linear stalemate.

I know some of you know about my "fun" hives, well guess what, they don't happen because I can't even use a tunnel to get past fog anymore due to a stealth update that made it so Queens cannot use a tunnel till fog clears.

So Xenos are FORCED into this linear "River vs Hydro" battle now because making a fun hive isn't possible without your Queen there to give orders, know whats going on by seeing it herself, and laying eggs as well as acting as a general location of the Hive via Queen Marker.

[Karmac]

I believe that making it harder for xenomorphs to enter the colony means marines will have even less excuses to camp le fog wall, so for now I don't see a problem with it.

[elantzb]

I'll post a general discussion thread about that RP Guide in a few minutes here.

Here we go.

[Telegnats]

I believe that making it harder for xenomorphs to enter the colony means marines will have even less excuses to camp le fog wall, so for now I don't see a problem with it.

Please regale me with further explanation on why making everyone wait for an hour after the game starts to actually play the game is a good solution.

[Karmac]

From a 'making sure no one breaks the rules' standpoint, which is what I was getting at in that post by referencing the fog camping, I have no problem with it, as a player, I'd find something to do with my time, I've even done my fair share of playing xeno during this test and it's still fun, guarding drones as they make hives past the fog is pretty neato. and you can still infect people and bring them back, just gotta have a buddy xeno with you.

[CrimsonAerospace]

Please regale me with further explanation on why making everyone wait for an hour after the game starts to actually play the game is a good solution.

Well man, this is an RP server, even if hardly anyone fucking plays it like it is...

If we added more RP/Mechanical elements, not only could the rounds be more enjoyable and memorable, but there would still be shooty shooty action later.

[Karmac]

This is an RP server

biggest thing to remember here

[Telegnats]

The rule breaking part is totally fair. They're not supposed to be there and if they keep hanging around it's blatant metagaming. And the Xeno part is fair too, you can still travel around and get into fights if you want.

But have you played marine much? I haven't played very many rounds myself, but the ones I have, I was an Engineer - I noticed a fairly good amount of marines just sort of standing around in the FOB because there's just... Nothing to do.

EDIT: As for the RP mechanics, it's not going to change anything. There's absolutely nothing that can be done to alleviate the boredom that comes from spending literally one hour just sitting around and wasting time by having the same conversations over and over. Sure I try to engage people some times by having stupid conversations about interesting topics but even I get bored of that shit after a while.

[Karmac]

The rule breaking part is totally fair. They're not supposed to be there and if they keep hanging around it's blatant metagaming. And the Xeno part is fair too, you can still travel around and get into fights if you want.

But have you played marine much? I haven't played very many rounds myself, but the ones I have, I was an Engineer - I noticed a fairly good amount of marines just sort of standing around in the FOB because there's just... Nothing to do.

EDIT: As for the RP mechanics, it's not going to change anything. There's absolutely nothing that can be done to alleviate the boredom that comes from spending literally one hour just sitting around and wasting time by having the same conversations over and over. Sure I try to engage people some times by having stupid conversations about interesting topics but even I get bored of that shit after a while.

I've played marine for over a year now and can't say I've ever gotten bored of it, and I even played standard for 3 months straight before going "hey people aren't so good at these other jobs lets try them out", I never got bored of the role itself. Using the excuse of "I'm bored" in a game like CM shows how incapable people are when it comes to RP and people that straight up don't try to when they've got nothing better to do deserve to wait.

[CrimsonAerospace]

The rule breaking part is totally fair. They're not supposed to be there and if they keep hanging around it's blatant metagaming. And the Xeno part is fair too, you can still travel around and get into fights if you want.

But have you played marine much? I haven't played very many rounds myself, but the ones I have, I was an Engineer - I noticed a fairly good amount of marines just sort of standing around in the FOB because there's just... Nothing to do.

EDIT: As for the RP mechanics, it's not going to change anything. There's absolutely nothing that can be done to alleviate the boredom that comes from spending literally one hour just sitting around and wasting time by having the same conversations over and over. Sure I try to engage people some times by having stupid conversations about interesting topics but even I get bored of that shit after a while.

You see, this is where RP mechanics come in...Command calls in, says "details from Wey-Yu have come in". A details disk has spawned somewhere, and some squad has to go get it. Or some other shit with more detail. RP things can engage people if you put some marine spin on it.

And I've played marine for over...3-ish, 4 years now, and I've NEVER gotten tired of it. Have I taken long breaks during down times, or from stress of playing with idiots? Yeah, but I'm back, and I KEEP coming back, because I love the Marine play.

[Telegnats]

I've played marine for over a year now and can't say I've ever gotten bored of it, and I even played standard for 3 months straight before going "hey people aren't so good at these other jobs lets try them out", I never got bored of the role itself. Using the excuse of "I'm bored" in a game like CM shows how incapable people are when it comes to RP and people that straight up don't try to when they've got nothing better to do deserve to wait.

I've played this since the beginning of Pre-Alpha, and neither have I gotten bored of 'being a marine'. I've gotten bored of the round because there's absolutely nothing to do for an hour besides talk to people. And telling someone they're "Bad at RP" and should wait because they don't want to RP will scare even more people away from even attempting to get involved.

I didn't understand what Crimson meant when he said RP mechanics. That sounds nice but i'm not convinced people will actively be engaged.

[Renomaki]

I haven't really got a chance to fully enjoy the whole Fog Wall thing yet, but from my first impressions, it is quite nice to have.

For the first time in a long time, I was able to do a patrol, meta-knowing that I wouldn't get rushed by a random crusher or stumble upon a hive in one of the colony buildings. Plus, there is something about that fog that is... Erie. It adds to the atmosphere and makes things a little more spooky. And of course, you don't have to worry about your squad going from 9 to 4 in a matter of moments during a patrol, since the fog keeps them locked in and thus forced to stay with you until it clears.

I do find it a tad shameful that people on both sides can't resist metagaming even with the fog in the way, both sides lining up in preparation for total war unless ordered away, which is easier said than done. Some habits do die hard...

[Mrgrumpie]

I think the key problem is keeping the marines entertained, the aliens are busy egging building picking off lone marines or just maturing they need that wait time, so while the fog clears so that either means slow things down for the marines start:
Not having the CO or XO blitz though the briefing at 15 mins with 4 lines each and off to the rasp we all go,
needing more food to get started,
slow the rasps first flight
god forbid only one line at supply
OR give the marines something to do even the RP of it could go well, the marines turn up and find the place swarming with hostile life forms spiders, bears, giant man eating pancakes - whatever and the such ; they can only assume these creatures at the reason for the distress, unless a survivor can warn them otherwise, what they don't know is the aliens have driven from the creatures from their caves, it gives the marines an RP reason to set up an FoB at the nexus still but NOT hydro, the marines can still shoot their guns at stuff and have things to do and the story slowly unfolds that there's something worse hiding in those hills!

[TheMaskedMan2]

I waited a while before posting here as I wanted to be sure of my opinions on the fog. Overall, I really like it and think it is a general improvement to LV as a whole. It fixes up a few of the issues I have personally always had, those being:
-The caves actually get fortified, instead of all of the xenos skipping to tablefort and melting it all immediately. For being so "deep" in Xeno territory, they would always be well, more barren than the barrens to say the least.
-Easier to enforce rules instead of the apparently tempting urge to run across the river.
-Marines stop getting themselves killed metarushing.

Now honestly, I don't consider this a buff or nerf to either side, if anything it is more of a marine buff, as metarushing almost never ends well for marines.

I think my favorite thing I've taken away from this is the "slow down" of the general match mood and attitude early in. I can see this being upsetting for people who just want to jump out and immediately start shooting, but you honestly need to find other ways to entertain yourselves, it's easy. Go on patrols, rp, just enjoy it, from both sides. The Xenos can seem to come from everywhere due to tunnels, so the fighting is no longer concentrated only in the north during the fog time. It creates more of a crescendo of events leading up to the fog dropping, and the action kicking off.

A final note, all this fog is making my mind buzz with ideas for it, but I'll save that for another time.

[Feweh]

If this doesnt work out will switch to the river insta gibbing.

[CrimsonAerospace]

If this doesnt work out will switch to the river insta gibbing.

[Sleepy Retard]

If this doesnt work out will switch to the river insta turning people Brazilian, followed by gibbing and a ban.

[Karmac]

If this doesnt work out will switch to the river insta gibbing.

+1 I think noize managed to work in hellhounds exploding when they try to get into Nexus, this shouldn't be too hard.

[Renomaki]

You know, after a few rounds, I suddenly got to thinkin...

You know how Ice has the gimmick of being cold and requiring snow gear to survive and how Big Red has no breathable air outside of the colony buildings?

I think this whole fog system could be Jungle's own personal gimmick.

Like, think about it, the other maps have something that modifies the gameplay, while Jungle had very little that made it special other than that it was a good map for beginners. But NOW, it has a gimmick that challenges players in its own way which is quite fitting if you ask me.

I hope this fog remains for Jungle so it can claim it as it's gimmick.

[Swagile]

Big Red has breathable air outside buildings, Renomaki.

[Renomaki]

Big Red has breathable air outside buildings, Renomaki.

Then why do they make us wear gas masks?

[Swagile]

Then why do they make us wear gas masks?

If your talking about old Big Red, sure.

But new Big Red (Big Red V2) does not require a mask. It was even stated during the few times we tested the map; you don't need to wear a mask and its only cosmetics if you want to.

[Renomaki]

If your talking about old Big Red, sure.

But new Big Red (Big Red V2) does not require a mask. It was even stated during the few times we tested the map; you don't need to wear a mask and its only cosmetics if you want to.

Well, I guess that means the only thing going for big red is it's sheer size....

I'll miss the old gimmick, as annoying as it was.

[Swagile]

Well, I guess that means the only thing going for big red is it's sheer size....

I'll miss the old gimmick, as annoying as it was.

Pretty sure that would be hell, since Huggers remove all mask items.

Hence unless huggers provide oxygen, you'd be dead in seconds from oxy loss.