A Discussion of ERTs: Why bother?

[Renomaki]

Hey guys, remember ERTs?

ERTs were originally supposed to be a commander's last resort, when he has nothing left and needs to call for outside help. Most of the time it is pretty pointless, but sometimes it does make a difference, provided the help is robust.

However, these days ERTs are nothing more than an admin event, with the CO having no influence in their calling no matter the situation. Need to hold the FoB but lack troops? Sorry, you can't call mercs for that, only for the Sulico defense. Just recently retreated and your men are buggered real bad? Well, have some Iron Bears, they ought to do the trick. And if they don't fix it, a special Xeno squad will take it from there.

As you can clearly tell, another issue with them besides appearing to be an admin only thing nowadays with no player input is the fact that ERTs have so much risk to them that you might as well not even bother calling them. Whenever people yell at me to call them, I hesitate, because it is far too risky to call for help this deep in space, far from a USCM military base. Sure, sometimes Weyland hears your pleas and comes to help, maybe some mercs might arrive and offer their aid for a few grand, but then there are covert ops watching and waiting for an opportunity to strike, and god help you if a friendly ship happens to be carrying xenos and ends up spreading the problem to your ship as well.

You have no control over when to call ERTs, and even if you do, the risk is so great that it is often better to just accept what you got and fight with what little you have, rather than risk calling for backup. And in the case backup is forced upon you and it turns out to be good?

Well, it doesn't matter, 90% of the time, ERTs make no difference because it is so late into the round that xenos will easily mop the floor with even the most well armed ERTs. ERTs don't have the same impact so late into the game, compared to if we had ERTs a little earlier. So rarely are ERTs even ABLE to land on the planet, where they would be useful for once instead of just being forced to stay on the sulico and tossed right into the fight the moment they land (very often the EXACT moment they land too, unlucky buggers bless em...). Why can't we get more ERTs to deploy on the ground? Wouldn't it be nice to have some Dutch mercs roaming the jungle with the marines like they were originally designed to?

Browsing the forum's backpages, I discovered the announcement for ERTs when they were being worked on, and back then, it seemed like they had a much different idea for them. But somewhere down the line, it changed, and instead of something that is meant to give marines a small boost in numbers when they desperately need it, it is either a dice an admin rolls when he feels like it, or a preset ERT that the admin sends either because they feel pity for the marines or xenos and wants to ease the burden of the side they think most needs it.

In other words, ERTs are kinda worthless these days. No one really wants them because of the risks they carry, and even if you get a good one, it barely makes a difference since they only ever arrive during the final chapter of the round, never during the middle of it. The fact that you don't even have control over it makes it feel less like a distress signal you can emit if needed to a random event that you'll have to hope won't end in your face getting blown off.

Does anyone else think that ERTs really bring nothing to the table anymore? Would anyone really miss if they were removed?

[Karmac]

I wouldn't miss them.

[NoahKirchner]

Keep ERTs, remove XRT, have the chance for a distress beacon to fail replace the previous chance of an XRT.

[Feweh]

Will be upping XRT chance to 80% soon.
So itll be a super gamble.

2% dutches and 18% Iron Bears

[Renomaki]

Will be upping XRT chance to 80% soon.
So itll be a super gamble.

2% dutches and 18% Iron Bears

Would hardly notice the difference.

[Karmac]

Would hardly notice the difference.

b o o m r o a s t e d

[Karmac]

Would hardly notice the difference.

b o o m r o a s t e d

[MrJJJ]

Gonna have to agree with Renomaki here, and here is why


Imagine you are playing a game, there is chests to find loot, but imagine each time you found one and opened it, there was a 40% chance it could spawn a 5-man strong enemy team to combat you that make your life super difficult, you wouldn't want to pick those chests now anymore, would you? you already got a gigantic xenomorph army to deal with, you don't need 5 more soldiers with powerful guns that can murder you, or 5 more cheesy hunters to pounce on you and murder you, and even then, there is ANOTHER dice to see where it actually get's created, if it rolls this hostile team and lands right behind you, then this can quickly turn from "we might win this" to "why the fuck did i do this? i could have won but i rolled the dice and got fucked, i should never call it again just for good measure", and even then, if its a good roll, should it land behind xenos, 95% they are going to die really quickly, and 5% chance they will pincer the shit out of xenos and make this a easy win, depending how good they are.

Really distress is great for ghosts to come back, but it just...it just doesn't really help most of the time.

[driecg36]

The shame is that i really like the concept of ert's, and that they allow cool gear and situations you wouldn't see otherwise.

That's probably one of the main reasons I don't like xrt. It really brings nothing to the table EXCEPT for a free xeno win, if they weren't already winning just by being on the sulaco. ERT's are supposed to be rare and bring something new to the table, except with xrt you probably wont even notice. You'd just think a bunch of hosts just popped or something. Having an ert just be a ship of pfcs would also be incredibly lame.

The only time i like xrt is before xenos have gotten onto the ship. It gives people on the ship something to fight or run away from, and brings excitement to the sulaco (which is often sorely needed). Shame the only way to even get an ert is adminbus or the aliums are already on the ship.

Personally, I don't even mind iron bears. They fulfill the point of pushing the xeno bias, while being interesting gameplay wise. 3 way fights are always a blast to watch, and even if the marines and bears make a truce, there's no way it can last very long.

I personally wouldn't want ert's to be removed, because some great rp moments and fun rounds have risen from them, and there's already enough cool human gear in the game that doesn't get used, let's not add more to the pile.

[Casgair]

I get the feeling that ERTs are really more a way of letting a few people get back into the game than anything else. That said early to mid round Mercs, especially on lowpop when Marines tend to get steamrolled, doesn't sound like a bad idea altogether.

[Swagile]

Agreed with this.

You have a better chance of victory from getting all your men to Briefing and printing out pulse rifles for their UGL's than you do with a beacon due to the fact that IB's and XRT's are more likely to happen than PMC's, Dutches, or even Pizza guy (Pizza is rarer than XRT, like wtf).

Just don't bother with it and use the time you would be spending in Bridge trying to get a distress beacon out in Req trying to get metal for fortifications or in Canteen trying to print UGL's for your men.

[4thsurviver]

The way I see it they are supposed to just add some drama to the round. The solution shouldn't be to remove them but change how they work and make them situational. Like have DD spawn more often on Pred rounds, have them show up by themselves earlier with the sole focus of the Preds. That way it would make sense they are in the system. Its the same with PMCs being called if a CL does good work. Have Marine ERTs if command has been talking to High Command or IBs if they hijacked the messages.
As it is now I don't see the reason the remove them. If 90% they don't effect the match then there is no reason to care either way but that 10% of time makes up for it.
People love to see a good ERT and much like marine victory it can't happen every time.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I always thought ERT's are an amazing potential RP tool, I personally think once a certain "percentage" of the marine fighting force is down, this taking into account Specs and SL's as well as other limited roles. An ERT should be able to be called, despite the state of the sulaco.

It would turn them into more of a mid round event as opposed to an end round event. Allow RP, and all in all create more of an interesting twist on the round.

PMC's? You get Wey-Yu and the CL breathing down your neck now.

IB's? They want the bridge, will they do it peacefully? Probably not. Still interesting.

Mercs? Payment, in it for themselves.

So on and so forth.



Though I have to disagree with removing ERT's, they aren't perfect as is but they are still fun, you need to think less along the lines of "They won't help me win?!" and more "Is this fun to the round?". Which I think they usually are.

XRT on the other hand.. I think is.. okay, but should only be a chance if Xenos are the ones heavily outnumbered, imagine Xenos are being destroyed, it's the mop up part, Queen begs for help, XRT to the sulaco as a last ditch "fuck up the humans" event.

[RedOktober12]

I always thought ERT's are an amazing potential RP tool, I personally think once a certain "percentage" of the marine fighting force is down, this taking into account Specs and SL's as well as other limited roles. An ERT should be able to be called, despite the state of the sulaco.

It would turn them into more of a mid round event as opposed to an end round event. Allow RP, and all in all create more of an interesting twist on the round.

PMC's? You get Wey-Yu and the CL breathing down your neck now.

IB's? They want the bridge, will they do it peacefully? Probably not. Still interesting.

Mercs? Payment, in it for themselves.

So on and so forth.



Though I have to disagree with removing ERT's, they aren't perfect as is but they are still fun, you need to think less along the lines of "They won't help me win?!" and more "Is this fun to the round?". Which I think they usually are.

XRT on the other hand.. I think is.. okay, but should only be a chance if Xenos are the ones heavily outnumbered, imagine Xenos are being destroyed, it's the mop up part, Queen begs for help, XRT to the sulaco as a last ditch "fuck up the humans" event.

I agree with all your points. The trouble is, to get a decent RPing ERT, you need to rely on the potluck that you get committed roleplayers rather than the usual crowd. At best their best, ERTs are interesting complications to a marine game from an IC standpoint, and to xenos from a mechanical one. Usually however, it's just a run to the objective followed by a coin toss for victory or defeat.

I think that the ERT has a purpose that it fulfills imperfectky. I honestly think the game would be less interesting without them, just from the sheer hype you get in deadchat when they're called. With that being said, in execution they're very hit-miss in gameplay terms. Only the IBs and XRT guarantee an actual complication to what would otherwise be a run of the mill sully defence. There's room for improvement, but I honestly think they're alright as is. I'm not sure how I'd tweak them, but that's all they need. Tweaks and tuning to make them effective and rewarding, win or lose.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I agree with all your points. The trouble is, to get a decent RPing ERT, you need to rely on the potluck that you get committed roleplayers rather than the usual crowd. At best their best, ERTs are interesting complications to a marine game from an IC standpoint, and to xenos from a mechanical one. Usually however, it's just a run to the objective followed by a coin toss for victory or defeat.

I think that the ERT has a purpose that it fulfills imperfectky. I honestly think the game would be less interesting without them, just from the sheer hype you get in deadchat when they're called. With that being said, in execution they're very hit-miss in gameplay terms. Only the IBs and XRT guarantee an actual complication to what would otherwise be a run of the mill sully defence. There's room for improvement, but I honestly think they're alright as is. I'm not sure how I'd tweak them, but that's all they need. Tweaks and tuning to make them effective and rewarding, win or lose.

Perhaps, perhaps, problem being most ERT's are filled with random people mediocre at the game, but nonetheless I still think overall ERT's would be more interesting for the round if deployed mid game instead. Yeah usually you will probably get the typical "immediately do stupid things without rp" but it would at least cause some variation. Plus, you can always get another ERT during the sulaco defense later, as opposed to them just being a silly thing you throw in at the end.

[Steelpoint]

We just had a round with the Iron Bears, and I have to say it was one of the more enjoyable round I've played, and likely the best usage of the Iron Bears in game yet.

--------

Big difference, they were called about half way into the round. They boarded the ship, executed the XO, called in many more Iron Bear reinforcements (with admin intervention) and basically took control of the ship and arrested any Marines. Surviving Marines were made into cleaners, medical staff kept their job and the IB just patrolled the ship.

Eventually the Aliens attacked the ship, leading to a massive battle between the Iron Bears and the Aliens. The Aliens only starting to edge out in the battle due to the atmosphere draining, otherwise the IB had numerical superiority and would've won.

As the IB were slowly losing, the ships self-destruct was activated and a ten minute timer activated. Three minutes until the ship blew the escape pods were set to launch.

Sadly all the Aliens rushed to the escape pods instantly to kill any retreating IB or Marines.

-------

It was a fun round, but it was fun because it was a admin event, and the IB arrived in the mid game, not end game.

Otherwise I feel ERTs are not worth it, since most of the time you get the IB or XRT who kill the last few Marines for the Aliens.

[driecg36]

We just had a round with the Iron Bears, and I have to say it was one of the more enjoyable round I've played, and likely the best usage of the Iron Bears in game yet.

--------

Big difference, they were called about half way into the round. They boarded the ship, executed the XO, called in many more Iron Bear reinforcements (with admin intervention) and basically took control of the ship and arrested any Marines. Surviving Marines were made into cleaners, medical staff kept their job and the IB just patrolled the ship.

Eventually the Aliens attacked the ship, leading to a massive battle between the Iron Bears and the Aliens. The Aliens only starting to edge out in the battle due to the atmosphere draining, otherwise the IB had numerical superiority and would've won.

As the IB were slowly losing, the ships self-destruct was activated and a ten minute timer activated. Three minutes until the ship blew the escape pods were set to launch.

Sadly all the Aliens rushed to the escape pods instantly to kill any retreating IB or Marines.

-------

It was a fun round, but it was fun because it was a admin event, and the IB arrived in the mid game, not end game.

Otherwise I feel ERTs are not worth it, since most of the time you get the IB or XRT who kill the last few Marines for the Aliens.

I was the IB commander that round, and I had a GREAT time with rp. How else would I get to rp a cruel commissar who is obviously a bad guy?

I tricked the xo into think we were his allies. When I learned his troops were on the ground, I executed him (I wish a single point blank revolver shot would do it...) I then locked down the bridge, and took control over the ship. Pretty much ran around murderboning marines (i would have catpured them, but IBs started shooting so I just joined in). When the survivors came up in the rasp, we gunned them down too until the bo announced his surrender. Then we pretty much turned the ship into a gulag. I had a great time running around abusing prisoners while playing the russian bad guy.

Shame I was a little unprepared to be made the acting co of the sulaco lol (highest ive ever been was bo a few times), and the fact that it took me wayyyy too long to figure out how to speak russian over comms. Still THE most fun and most rp intensive round ive ever had.

[Steelpoint]

To be fair the XO had no choice but to play along, since it he started shooting you that would be metagaming.

Everyone knows the IB are hostile, but you have to wait for a excuse.

Hence why I wish the IB are not 100% guaranteed hostile. Maybe a 50% chance they are hostile, but a 50% chance they are on a mission of mercy.

[TheMaskedMan2]

That round was fun.. to observe... and miss 12 ERT's in a row.

Anyways! Random thought. ERT's suffer due to them being randoms right? Now what if the sargaent or SL's of specific ERT's were more restricted? I'm not saying whitelist but the fact that random PFC who sucks at orders can be the leader can jeopardize the mission.

It would be nice if it was garunteed the one in charge knew what they were doing and could better influence RP. Just as a start.

[Steelpoint]

I would not be against having a system where whitelisted players have first preference for ERT command roles. Some of the better ERT events occur when someone competent is in command.

For example, each ERT has three standard roles.

Standard - Grunt Soldier, this ranges from Standards to Specalists

Sergeant - Second in command, same as we have now. Anyone can be selected for this role, this role will command the squad should not Officer spawn.

Captain - First in command. Whitelisted role. Only spawns if a whitelisted person selects to be part of the squad AND confirms they want to be Captain. Otherwise does not spawn and Sergeant is in command.

[NoahKirchner]

I would not be against having a system where whitelisted players have first preference for ERT command roles. Some of the better ERT events occur when someone competent is in command.

For example, each ERT has three standard roles.

Standard - Grunt Soldier, this ranges from Standards to Specalists

Sergeant - Second in command, same as we have now. Anyone can be selected for this role, this role will command the squad should not Officer spawn.

Captain - First in command. Whitelisted role. Only spawns if a whitelisted person selects to be part of the squad AND confirms they want to be Captain. Otherwise does not spawn and Sergeant is in command.

No, please dear god no more whitelists. It's a popularity contest and only serves to hurt the quality of roleplay on the server unless it's for something incredibly gamechanging and abuseable like a predator.

[driecg36]

That round was fun.. to observe... and miss 12 ERT's in a row.

Anyways! Random thought. ERT's suffer due to them being randoms right? Now what if the sargaent or SL's of specific ERT's were more restricted? I'm not saying whitelist but the fact that random PFC who sucks at orders can be the leader can jeopardize the mission.

It would be nice if it was garunteed the one in charge knew what they were doing and could better influence RP. Just as a start.

I thought my rp was pretty good, but I do agree with you. I was not at ALL ready to be pretty much made commander of the sulaco, and without feweh's order through the console as well as the other bears being surprisingly competent, the IB major would've been much less fun.

[RedOktober12]

I would not be against having a system where whitelisted players have first preference for ERT command roles. Some of the better ERT events occur when someone competent is in command.

For example, each ERT has three standard roles.

Standard - Grunt Soldier, this ranges from Standards to Specalists

Sergeant - Second in command, same as we have now. Anyone can be selected for this role, this role will command the squad should not Officer spawn.

Captain - First in command. Whitelisted role. Only spawns if a whitelisted person selects to be part of the squad AND confirms they want to be Captain. Otherwise does not spawn and Sergeant is in command.

I don't even think this needs to be whitelisted. I've seen numerous ahelps of IB sergeants who don't know what to do, and want someone else to have the job. Just separate the roles in the application, and the players that want to be jarheads'll select the jarheads. You'll still get braindead SLs occasionally, but at least it'll be because they deliberately chose that role. Adding more whitelists feels like it'd be more work that it's worth.

That being said, a problem I foresee with this system is players trying to play the system by choosing SL because they believe it'd be less subscribed, and therefore offer a better chance to be the leader. Not sure if that could be helped. The separate roles would at remove some of the randomness, as opposed to the total entropy we have at present.

[Swagile]

No, please dear god no more whitelists. It's a popularity contest and only serves to hurt the quality of roleplay on the server unless it's for something incredibly gamechanging and abuseable like a predator.

This.

Whitelists are just cancerous and have not solved any problems so far except for the Predator role.

You still have incompetent CO's and competent CO's; they are just now always guaranteed the role instead of having to roll the dice like everyone else (XO).

[driecg36]

This.

Whitelists are just cancerous and have not solved any problems so far except for the Predator role.

You still have incompetent CO's and competent CO's; they are just now always guaranteed the role instead of having to roll the dice like everyone else (XO).

I think another whitelist wouldn't be a good idea, even if it's really lame when the ert leader ends up being a baldie, but I like the whitelist for commanders. It gives them a lot more credibility, and I know I always listen to a commander's orders without hesitation JUST because I know they aren't some random boot, but someone who has been playing the game for way longer than i have. The whitelist just makes the position of commander something to be instantly respected.